A Porsche Organ

[John Sayer]

Some of you may know that the famous Ladegast/Sauer instrument in the Nikolaikirche in Leipzig was completely rebuilt and enlarged to VP/102 by Eule of Bautzen in 2004, the cost being met by the Porsche firm who established a factory near Leipzig after re-unification.

 

Porsche engineers had a big hand in the ergonomic design of the console - hence the curved brushed steel jambs, 'speedometer' dials for the registration aids and blower switch on the left, like the ignition in the Porsche cars.

 

The only snag with design seems to be that (lady) recitalists who use hand-cream leave awkward-to-remove finger marks on the stop jambs.

 

See Nikolai - Leipzig

 

JS

[heva]

Waiting for an English answer to this - a St.Paul's movable console by AstonMartin?

 

Could be fun, with Clarkson and the

[JJK]

Waiting for an English answer to this - a St.Paul's movable console by AstonMartin?

 

Could be fun, with Clarkson and the

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

hmmm - movable! Powered by a 6L V12?

[Guest Lee Blick]

Wow, that console looks beautiful. Hmmm, somehow if an British car manufacturer (if there are any left, is the Robin Reliant makers still going?), you wouldn't notice any difference as it would be bland and boring.

 

I'm just thankful we don't have the organ world equivelent of the Clarkson Mondeo man...hang on, come to think of it....

[Guest delvin146]

Wow, that console looks beautiful.  Hmmm, somehow if an British car manufacturer (if there are any left, is the Robin Reliant makers still going?), you wouldn't notice any difference as it would be bland and boring.

 

I'm just thankful we don't have the organ world equivelent of the Clarkson Mondeo man...hang on, come to think of it....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree that the organ looks very smart indeed, I like the look of it very much. Can't help thinking that an organ using the old Citroen system of illuminated rotating dials on the dash, and the lego block indicators and headlights would also be good, for blower switches etc. My old Citroen GSA had them, and so did one of my early BX's. (The BX's being one of the most reliable cars I have ever had).

 

I do actually know a motor precision engineer who used to manufacture parts for an ailing 1950's Osmond stop-key console. When a bit fell off, I just used to take it over the workshop and they'd make a replacement part for me.

[MusingMuso]

Some of you may know that the famous Ladegast/Sauer instrument in the Nikolaikirche in Leipzig was completely rebuilt and enlarged to VP/102 by Eule of Bautzen in 2004, the cost being met by the Porsche firm who established a factory near Leipzig after re-unification.

 

Porsche engineers had a big hand in the ergonomic design of the console - hence the curved brushed steel jambs, 'speedometer' dials for the registration aids and blower switch on the left, like the ignition in the Porsche cars.

 

The only snag with design seems to be that (lady) recitalists who use hand-cream leave awkward-to-remove finger marks on the stop jambs.

 

See Nikolai - Leipzig

 

JS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

=========================

 

 

I must confess that I knew nothing of this organ or the rather hi-tech console.

 

What fascinates me, is the fact that were I to have guessed at the design source, I would almost certainly have suggested Porsche; the Porsche Design studio being one of the finest in the world, which includes anything but....well...actually..... including the kitchen-sink.

 

Very much an international team of elite artists and engineers, the work of British engineers on the Porsche Design team was to prove vital in the re-design of the legendary Porsche 911; and especially in finally getting the thing to handle safely.

 

I would personally find it fascinating to see what the differences would be, if a free run were given to other major design-studios in the aesthetics of organ-console design.

 

Expanding this ever so slightly, to include Eastern Europe, I can see very definite evidence of pre-war utility design in organ-consoles around Poland and the former Czechoslovakia; which must equate to the Wartburg, Skoda, Lada and DKW school of communist functional design.

 

I'm sure the Italians could come up with something stylish and racy, judging by the curvatious beauty of Lamborghini and Ferrari. The names of Micholetti and Pininfarina are synonymous with style and functional beauty.

 

I suppose that Lotus Design would come up with something interesting: perhaps a console which could be easily lifted by two people and then flat-packed into a broom-cupboard when not in use.

 

Still, I have a certain love of traditional wood and leather, and if ever an organ-console reflected a nation, then surely the Arthur Harrison console is the equivalent to Bentley, Rolls-Royce and Aston-Martin.

 

Judging by some of the consoles I have seen, I expect they called upon the services of a certain French motocar and bicycle manufacturer. They look good for about 6 months, until bits start falling off!

 

MM

[Guest Lee Blick]

I hope this isn't going to give some our more amateur organ-builder enthusiasts any ideas. Last thing I want to do is go to a church with an organ console that ooks like something out of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang...

[MusingMuso]

I hope this isn't going to give some our more amateur organ-builder enthusiasts any ideas.  Last thing I want to do is go to a church with an organ console that ooks like something out of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

================

 

Better still....a "Morgan Console"

 

 

MM

[Frank Fowler]

================

 

Better still....a "Morgan Console"

 

 

MM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Dylan Thomas would have liked that!

 

FF

[Pierre Lauwers]

Have it built by a Norton retiree with Lucas parts from the 70's -and then expect all up to the most unexpected-.

Should the car builder be still active, you should be fast before Peugeot is gone from the UK, or stick to the japanese having plants in England.

 

Pierre

[MusingMuso]

Have it built by a Norton retiree with Lucas parts from the 70's -and then expect all up to the most unexpected-.

Should the car builder be still active, you should be fast before Peugeot is gone from the UK, or stick to the japanese having plants in England.

 

Pierre

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

====================

 

No thanks Pierre. I can do without pallet-valves dropping unexpectedly during the Widor, and oil leaking onto the pedal-board!

 

Thank heavens for the French firm of Nissan!

 

Anyone for "Honda Jazz?"

 

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

====================

 

 

 

Anyone for "Honda Jazz?"

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Good idea, they could build very fashionable brass tongues

for an "Improbable Tuba", with turbocharged heavy wind supply.

 

Pierre

[heva]

Hope you're not suggesting the likes of a Renault Chamade?

 

brrr...

[David Coram]

The Bournemouth Pavilion and countless other consoles have a great deal in common with Citroens. I used to enjoy going to the drive-through burger window in my Xantia with it raised up to max, and then dropping it down so I disappeared when they tried to hand me my change and food.

[John Sayer]

=========================

I must confess that I knew nothing of this organ or the rather hi-tech console.

 

What fascinates me, is the fact that were I to have guessed at the design source, I would almost certainly have suggested Porsche; the Porsche Design studio being one of the finest in the world, which includes anything but....well...actually..... including the kitchen-sink.

 

 

MM

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The magnificent Sauer console with its terraced, coloured porcelain stop tablets survived until the 1990s, when the Eule firm, then a VEB, or state-owned firm, ripped it out and put in a hideous, cheap mobile affair with illuminated stop lozenges, rather like bell-pushes. Eule is obviously a very different firm these days.

 

The 5 dials are for swell shutters (x3), general crescendo and a hygrometer for the main wind trunk (!).

 

The specification, for those interested, is:-

 

I. Hauptwerk

 

Bordun - 32´

Prinzipal - 16´

Bordun - 16´

Prinzipal - 8´

Doppelgedackt - 8´

Flaut major - 8´

Gambe - 8´

Gemshorn - 8´

Rohrquinte - 5 1/3´

Octave - 4´

Spitzflöte - 4´

Rohrflöte - 4´

Terzflöte - 3 1/5´

Quinte - 2 2/3´

Septime - 2 2/7´

Octave - 2´

Terz - 1 3/5´

Mixtur 4fach - 2´

Cymbel 3fach - 2´

Cornett 3-5fach - 2 2/3´

Trombone - 16´

Trompete - 8´

Trompete - 4´

 

II. Oberwerk

 

Principal - 16´

Quintatön - 16´

Principal - 8´

Bordunalflöte - 8´

Fugara - 8´

Quintatön - 8´

Rohrflöte - 8´

Octave - 4´

Gedackt - 4´

Hohlflöte - 4´

Spitzquinte - 2 2/3´

Octave - 2´

Waldflöte - 2´

Terz - 1 3/5´

Quinte - 1 1/3´

Flageolett - 1´

Cymbel 4fach - 2´

Cornett 3fach - 2 2/3´

Basson - 16´

Trompete - 8´

Clarinette - 8´

Vox populi - 8´

 

III. Rècit

 

Stillgedackt - 16´

Diapason - 8´

Flute traversiere - 8´

Viole di Gamba - 8´

Aeoline - 8´

Voix céleste - 8´

Flute octaviante - 4´

Octavin - 2´

Plein jeux 4-5fach - 2 2/3´

Bombarde - 16´

Trompette harm - 8´

Hautbois - 8´

Clairon - 4´

Vox populi - 8´

 

IV. Brustwerk

 

Lieblich Gedackt - 16´

Geigenprinzipal - 8´

Flauto traverso - 8´

Doppelflöte - 8´

Harmonica - 8´

Octave - 4´

Octavflöte - 4´

Piffaro - 4´

Rohrquinte - 2 2/3´

Piccolo - 2´

Scharf 3fach - 1 1/3´

Fagott - 16´

Oboe - 8´

Cor anglais - 8´

 

V. Echowerk

 

Viola - 16´

Viola d´amour - 8´

Lieblich Gedackt - 8´

Salicional - 8´

Unda maris 2fach - 8´

Sanftflöte - 8´

Viola - 4´

Zartflöte - 4´

Nassat - 2 2/3´

Violino - 2´

Harm. aeth. 3 fach - 2 2/3´

Aeoline - 16´

Vox humana - 8´

 

Pedal

 

Principalbass - 32´

Untersatz - 32´

Principalbass - 16´

Violonbass - 16´

Salicet - 16´

Subbass - 16´

Terz - 12 4/5´

Nassat - 10 2/3´

Octavbass - 8´

Bassflöte - 8´

Violoncello - 8´

Nasard - 5 1/3´

Octavbass - 4´

Cornett 5fach - 2 2/3´

Posaunenbass - 32´

Posaunenbass - 16´

Dulcian - 16´

Trompete - 8´

Trompete clarino - 4'

 

Hilfszüge

 

Koppeln

Walze

Stahlspiel III

Carillon V

Midi V

Tremulanten

Piano

MezzoForte

Forte

Organo Pleno

Tutti

4000 freie Kombinationen

Disketten-Laufwerk

Hand-Schweller, Hno

MezzoForte

Forte

Organo Pleno

Tutti

4000 freie Kombinationen

Disketten-Laufwerk

Hand-Schweller, Hand-Walze

 

 

Leipzig now has 4 magnificent instruments within a stone's throw of one another:-

 

Gewandhaus - 4m Schuke 1984

Thomaskirche - huge 19c 3m Sauer recently restored

plus the new 4m Bach organ by Gerald Woehl

Nicolaikirche - 5m Eule

 

JS

[Guest delvin146]

The Bournemouth Pavilion and countless other consoles have a great deal in common with Citroens.  I used to enjoy going to the drive-through burger window in my Xantia with it raised up to max, and then dropping it down so I disappeared when they tried to hand me my change and food.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I learnt not to play with my suspension lever on my later xantia, (which unfortunately I didn't like as much as the BX even though it was more solidly built). The Xantia had a habit of rising ok, but when you tried to put it down its rear end would stay up in the air at a kind of 45 degree angle in a rather inappropraite manner, even new spheres did nothing to help it. It was all highly embarrasing.

[David Coram]

I learnt not to play with my suspension lever on my later xantia, (which unfortunately I didn't like as much as the BX even though it was more solidly built). The Xantia had a habit of rising ok, but when you tried to put it down its rear end would stay up in the air at a kind of 45 degree angle in a rather inappropraite manner, even new spheres did nothing to help it. It was all highly embarrasing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mine did the exact opposite - the back end started to stay down and bounce along the road in a most alarming fashion. Boy racers pay a fortune to get the same look. only good thing about the xantia was you could put 2 soundboards and a bourdon in the back, switch it on and up it would come to normal ride height. It also moved a large rockery from north devon to wiltshire in one go. A few months later the pump failed on the M5 at 95mph leaving me with no brakes, steering or suspension. Stuck to volvos ever since...

[Guest delvin146]

Mine did the exact opposite - the back end started to stay down and bounce along the road in a most alarming fashion.  Boy racers pay a fortune to get the same look.  only good thing about the xantia was you could put 2 soundboards and a bourdon in the back, switch it on and up it would come to normal ride height.  It also moved a large rockery from north devon to wiltshire in one go.  A few months later the pump failed on the M5 at 95mph leaving me with no brakes, steering or suspension.  Stuck to volvos ever since...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I suspect the reason your pump failed is precisely because you had been doing 95mph with 2 soundboards and a bourdon in the back. They were great for pumping up heavy loads, but there are limits you know.

 

Saab 9000 is great for shifting organ parts, and people are scared and give you a wide birth as with the volvo. The golf is better for nipping to Asda and pulling 80 year old pensioners with, outside church of a sunday morning.

[Pierre Lauwers]

In 1980 I noted a reigning-without-discussion-of-any-kind big teacher in Brussels, for whom the history of the organ ended 1750, anything after that having to be melted down at once (you can imagine what kind of friendship we had!) was driving a Citroën GS, with hydropneumatic suspension also.

I asked him "Well, Mr, you are driving a pneumatic car?"

 

(I have to aknowledge, after having had two company-car BX, that they lacked

any kind of precision. Moreover, driving that thing on a motorway under the rain

was a nightmare, nearly a suicide. Aquaplaning started below 60 Mph even with

brand-new tires).

 

Pierre

[pwhodges]

I learnt not to play with my suspension lever on my later xantia, (which unfortunately I didn't like as much as the BX even though it was more solidly built). The Xantia had a habit of rising ok, but when you tried to put it down its rear end would stay up in the air at a kind of 45 degree angle in a rather inappropraite manner, even new spheres did nothing to help it. It was all highly embarrasing.

I also liked my BX better than the Xantia. The game I played was at the traffic lights, if there was a child in an adjacent car: let the suspension down flat; hold the brakes on hard while setting it up to full height - the brakes locked the wheelbase so the car couldn't rise; when the pressure was likely to have built right up release the brakes and let the car jump into the air - the kids loved it!

 

Paul

[Vox Humana]

Last thing I want to do is go to a church with an organ console that looks like something out of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang...

Down here the problem is avoiding them.

 

Hope you're not suggesting the likes of a Renault Chamade?

I think I'd get my chamades done by Harley-Davidson.

[Guest delvin146]

I also liked my BX better than the Xantia.  The game I played was at the traffic lights, if there was a child in an adjacent car: let the suspension down flat; hold the brakes on hard while setting it up to full height - the brakes locked the wheelbase so the car couldn't rise; when the pressure was likely to have built right up release the brakes and let the car jump into the air - the kids loved it!

 

Paul

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

O yes, and you could feel the pressure building on the brake pedal. I tried it in a friends older one but unfortunately it had a little accident, the pressure must have been too much and a little green puddle of LHM pee pee appeared underneath the accumulator. And no, I was never a member of the Citroen car club The thing that amazes me is the number of bouncy citroens you see driving up and down the road. Some have flat backsides jumping about, etc.

 

Don't citroen drivers realise that when the car starts bouncing and playing up it probably needs new spheres fitted? Leave it too long and they'll need new ones, take it in as problems start and they can most likely be recharged. I thought spheres were meant to last about 3 years or so, but people just don't seem to notice. New rear-arm bearings can also be expenisve if the spheres are left for too long in poor condition.

[MusingMuso]

I think I'd get my chamades done by Harley-Davidson.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

================

 

Shock horror!

 

Don't be impressed by things that shine. Beneath that Chrome is steel....the motorcycle equivalent to Hoyt metal.

 

As chamades were exported to America from England by, I believe, Jardine of Manchester, you need to find copper exhausts from old Brough Superior motor-cycles for that historic and authentic touch of class.

 

MM

[Vox Humana]

As chamades were exported to America from England by, I believe, Jardine of Manchester, you need to find copper exhausts from old Brough Superior motor-cycles for that historic and authentic touch of class.

Just so long as they're noisy.

[Pierre Lauwers]

It is rather interesting to note the comparison between Chamades

and a Harley-Davidson muffler, supposedly emptied of any silencing device.

(As I always say: Gimmy a good, smooth Tuba instead )

Pierre