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Mander Organs
Jeremy Jones

Canterbury Cathedral Organ

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Conversely, a quick trip around the (very bright) instrument in my own church (and a number of good French organs) may convince you that you may need to re-consider, VH!

I might take you up on that next time I'm in your neck of the woods! :(

 

Mind you, with your (lack of) acoustic, would anything sound muddy?

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I might take you up on that next time I'm in your neck of the woods!  :(

 

Mind you, with your (lack of) acoustic, would anything sound muddy?

 

Ha! Probably not, Vox!

 

Out of interest, what is the Hele like in the R.C. cathedral? I am guessing that the acoustic is fairly cavernous after the re-ordering of the interior - all that polished marble flooring (or whatever it is)....

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Just for an experiment tonight I recorded bits of choir practice and did a couple of verses of the psalms on all the 16's with the oboe.  Wow!!!!  Going to have to save that on a piston, I think - crystal clear to the bottom.  Also - Sw Oboe, Stopped Diap, Clarion and Mixture down an octave.  What a fantastic noise!!!

 

 

This I must hear....

 

Are you intending to use this registration at some stage on Sunday evening?

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Out of interest, what is the Hele like in the R.C. cathedral? I am guessing that the acoustic is fairly cavernous after the re-ordering of the interior - all that polished marble flooring (or whatever it is)....

Typical Hele job with a three-manual spec that you'd expect more in a parish church than a cathedral: 8' reeds only (none on the pedal) and no Mixture on the Great. It's adequate enough and well thought of by many. It's also nearly a semitone sharp with the result that it is only used on Sunday evenings. The rest of the time (including concerts) a large and now aging III/P Eminent toaster is used. This actually sounds tonally very effective, though the transients are primitive and crass - they make any fast music sound strangely "boopy". However, most sins are covered by the glorious acoustic (about 4 secs reverb) which is particularly magical for choirs. It's by far the best acoustic in Plymouth.

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Guest delvin146
I know several of the Hele instruments in your neck of the woods, including a few which have been discarded and one which was lost when the church (Buckfastleigh) had an arson attack.  I'd go along with you - liquid mud and not in need of any further gravitas.  The only time I have ever felt a Pedal Dull Thud 16 to be inadequate was on the old Hele at St Luke's Buckfast, an exceptionally dreary instrument, now gone.

 

I can't begin to imagine hymn accompaniments without my two Gt 16 flues though!  Absolutely invaluable.  Then again I also have lots and lots of bright upperwork so perhaps the balance is necessary.

 

What about the hele in Lyme regis? One to keep your eyes on.

 

"Abide with me" and "Just as I am (Saffron Waldon), just don't sound right unless they're played extremely slowly and thickened up by a nice muddy 16' underneath. Depends on the tune...

 

Wouldn't use that for "Easter Hymn" totally different bright registration and a faster tempo. Manual 16's do have their uses and they're nice, we shouldn't be frightened of bringing them on in moderation.

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Guest Roffensis
What about the hele in Lyme regis? One to keep your eyes on.

 

"Abide with me" and "Just as I am (Saffron Waldon), just don't sound right unless they're played extremely slowly and thickened up by a nice muddy 16' underneath. Depends on the tune...

 

Wouldn't use that for "Easter Hymn" totally different bright registration and a faster tempo. Manual 16's do have their uses and they're nice, we shouldn't be frightened of bringing them on in moderation.

 

 

Really! I shall have to be very careful which funerals I give you then, lest my own reputation is put in jeopardy!! :blink:

R

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Guest delvin146
Really! I shall have to be very careful which funerals I give you then, lest my own reputation is put in jeopardy!!  B)

R

 

:lol: my playing is none other than ladylike gentile and refined thank you very much :blink:

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Back to Canterbury................the latest Choir and Organ has more about what they are intending to do. A new 4 man. nave instrument plus rebuild of the Willis/Mander including a new 4th man. and casework. There will also be a new 'east end' chorus with all of this playable from a 4 man. console on the screen. David Titterington is to be consultant and the current appeal also includes refurbishment of the Choir boarding house. It sounds interesting - apparently the contract has not yet gone out to tender and they are looking for one builder to do the work ('organ wise' that is - not including the boarding house!).

 

AJJ

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Guest Barry Oakley
Back to Canterbury................the latest Choir and Organ has more about what they are intending to do. A new 4 man. nave instrument plus rebuild of the Willis/Mander including a new 4th man. and casework. There will also be a new 'east end' chorus with all of this playable from a 4 man. console on the screen. David Titterington is to be consultant and the current appeal also includes refurbishment of the Choir boarding house. It sounds interesting - apparently the contract has not yet gone out to tender and they are looking for one builder to do the work ('organ wise' that is - not including the boarding house!).

 

AJJ

 

Anyone fancy laying down a list of odds as to who will get the contract for this organ project?

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So Canterbury is now going to have two four-manual organs and the screen console will be capable of controlling the wole lot? Certainly sounds quite ambitious.

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Back to Canterbury................the latest Choir and Organ has more about what they are intending to do. A new 4 man. nave instrument plus rebuild of the Willis/Mander including a new 4th man. and casework. There will also be a new 'east end' chorus with all of this playable from a 4 man. console on the screen. David Titterington is to be consultant ...

AJJ

 

Good grief, with all those departments around, they might just as well engage the services of a one-time contributor to this board....!

 

Seriously, this does sound to be a sensible idea, although I am not sure that the Nave organ would need to be a four-clavier instrument - unless, of course, it is intended to duplicate the function of the Quire organ when the choir sing from the east end of the Nave.

 

I would be interested to know where they intend to site the Nave organ.

 

Anyone interested in drawing up some 'armchair schemes' for these two instruments? It is quite a long time since we have done anyting like this around here, and I have to say that to me, it sounds more attractive than continually arguing about Virgil Fox!

 

(Yes, I am aware that I have contributed to the length and intensity of the latter thread - but some things could not be left unchallenged....)

 

:lol:

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Seriously, this does sound to be a sensible idea, although I am not sure that the Nave organ would need to be a four-clavier instrument - unless, of course, it is intended to duplicate the function of the Quire organ when the choir sing from the east end of the Nave.

 

I would be interested to know where they intend to site the Nave organ.

 

Anyone interested in drawing up some 'armchair schemes' for these two instruments? It is quite a long time since we have done anyting like this around here.................

:lol:

 

Perhaps the nave organ will have its own console downstairs too. Re the armchair bit - tempting but 'no time at present. Maybe you could kick off!!

 

AJJ

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Perhaps the nave organ will have its own console downstairs too. Re the armchair bit - tempting but 'no time at present. Maybe you could kick off!!

 

AJJ

 

I may do just that!

 

However, before I do, I really should go and do some practice - so someone else may get in first....

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While on the 'second instrument' theme - Uppsala Cathedral in Sweden (almost like their Westminster Abbey) has a fantastic 19th Century 3 man ('Swedish Cavaille Coll' style) in the west gallery and is now getting this on a transept gallery to be near the choir:-

 

http://www.ruffatti.com/html/uppsala.html

 

The organist there was/is British and they have a tradition of English choral music - I sang there as a treble and the acoustic is incredible.

 

AJJ

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While on the 'second instrument' theme - Uppsala Cathedral in Sweden (almost like their Westminster Abbey) has a fantastic 19th Century 3 man ('Swedish Cavaille Coll' style) in the west gallery and is now getting this on a transept gallery to be near the choir:-

 

http://www.ruffatti.com/html/uppsala.html

 

The organist there was/is British and they have a tradition of English choral music - I sang there as a treble and the acoustic is incredible.

 

AJJ

 

 

Oh my - I am beginning to change my original idea of 'disposing' with either Olivier Latry or perhaps Daniel Roth (possibly by the old poison-tipped umbrella method). I have now turned my sights on the Titulaire of this instrument....

 

Unfortunately, my command of the Swedish language is vastly inferior to what ability I possess in speaking French; therefore, I am just going to have to manage with no resonance - and the possibility of a rebuild (and a new 32p reed) in the not-too-distant future.

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Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk
Anyone fancy laying down a list of odds as to who will get the contract for this organ project?

 

 

This is going to sound very cynical indeed:

I can't see Prof DT going for a British firm.

Hope I'm wrong.

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This is going to sound very cynical indeed:

I can't see Prof DT going for a British firm.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

This sounds ominous, Paul. What makes you think that he would not favour a British firm?

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This is going to sound very cynical indeed:

I can't see Prof DT going for a British firm.

Hope I'm wrong.

So do I.

 

I don't know what others think, but all my instincts tell me that if all the various departments are to be playable from one console, then it would be advisable to make sure that all the different divisions contribute to an organ of uniform tonal integrity - which would mean voicing the new pipes in a not dissimilar style to the existing Willis/Mander. If the two main organs were to remain completely discrete then it wouldn't be an issue.

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Guest Barry Oakley
This is going to sound very cynical indeed:

I can't see Prof DT going for a British firm.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

Sadly, my hunch is that Canterbury will see yet another new organ(s) contract going to a mainland European or Scandinavian builder, adding further to the demise of reputation of British organ builders. Only the crumbs (tuning) are likely to go to a British outfit. But like Paul, I hope I’m wrong. No apologies for being patriotic, Canterbury is the mother church of the Anglican Communion and, as such, aught to have a British-made organ. We can do it!

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Guest Roffensis

I think the opportunity exists to have something very special in the nave, and the Letourneau firm could doubtless provide a very beautiful sound. The acoustic in the nave is excellent, about 10 seconds when empty, and it tends to amplify sound somewhat, so it would be wonderful to have beautifully voiced ranks, by such as Letourneau. My concern would be how and where it goes, from a architectural point of view, as without doubt this our finest Gothic nave.

 

It is wise that they are to retain all of the Willis :o , and return it to four manuals :o . As a case has also been mentioned for the choir, it seems appropriate to mention the old Lancelot Pease case which used to sit in one of the choir arches, over the stalls, and had a chaire case. It would be unique to copy this design, Great and Choir in this case, Swell above in the triforium, Solo to the side in the triforium, and pedal ditto up there.

 

I always have thought the nave case, although the organ itself obviously has helped a great deal with singing in the nave, to be at odds with the architecture, being Classical in its proportions and design. I hope the new nave organ has a very sumptuous Gothic case, that blends into its surroundings, such as Liverpool Cathedral.

 

R

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Guest delvin146
Sadly, my hunch is that Canterbury will see yet another new organ(s) contract going to a mainland European or Scandinavian builder, adding further to the demise of reputation of British organ builders.  Only the crumbs (tuning) are likely to go to a British outfit. But like Paul, I hope I’m wrong. No apologies for being patriotic, Canterbury is the mother church of the Anglican Communion and, as such, aught to have a British-made organ. We can do it!

 

It's rather like Notre Dame installing a Harrison organ isn't it.

 

Suppose it doesn't matter that Canterbury will have 2 instruments, but how often will the nave organ actually be used? Most of the time it'll probably sit there looking pretty or whatever the case may be. Personally I'd rather the good people of Canterbury gave their money to a more worthy cause like the starving beetles society, or the institute for the procreation and care of grasshoppers.

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