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The Most Perfect Organ Ever Made


David Coram

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St Ouen is an absolute stunner - the Vierne recordings by Jeremy Filsell sound splendid on a recent release. However, having played both through a combination of passable French and bare-faced cheek, IMHO the St Sernin, Toulouse instrument is better still. Though marginally smaller, it really is the most amazing sound that I have heard and certainly played...

 

Other favourites include St Sulpice, the Armley Schulze, the Kelvingrove Lewis and the Redcliffe Harrison. So as to assuage doubts that I am a total megalomaniac, I have very fond memories of the Snetzler/G&D in it's former home, Wynnstay Hall near Wrexham where it had a lively resonant hall in which to project. Now in the National Museum of Wales, complete with winsome Robert Adam case, it gave hours of delight to me as a teenager equipped with Old English Organ Music For Manuals editions 1- 978563. I am ashamed to say that I have not heard it in its new home though it does look stunning after Goetze and Gwynne worked their magic.

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Guest paul@trinitymusic.karoo.co.uk
I have very fond memories of the Snetzler/G&D in it's former home, Wynnstay Hall near Wrexham where it had a lively resonant hall in which to project. Now in the National Museum of Wales, complete with winsome Robert Adam case, it gave hours of delight to me as a teenager equipped with Old English Organ Music For Manuals editions 1- 978563. I am ashamed to say that I have not heard it in its new home though it does look stunning after Goetze and Gwynne worked their magic.

 

 

I agree, it's a lovely organ. There are sometimes lunchtime recitals upon it in its new home (master-minded, I think by Robert Court of St.Augustine's Penarth). I've given a couple of these and I can reassure you that the organ has been very sympathetically dealt with and sounds fine in its new home. It looks stunning! Watching the museum staff shutting it down afterwards (involving sliding panels over the console incl. pedalboard) is also a sight that shouldn't be missed.

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According to a well-known player and consultant in 1712, a "perfect organ"

could well be this:

 

HAUPTWERK

 

Gross Principal 16'

Gross Quintatön 16'

Klein Principal 8'

Fleute allemande 8'

Gems-Horn 8'

Octav 4'

Quinta 3'

Quint-Nassat 3'

Octavina 2'

Wald-Flöte 2'

Grosse Mixtur 5-6r

Cornetti 3r

Zinck 2r

Schalmei 8' (wood!)

 

HINTERWERK

 

Lieblich Gedackt 8' (wood)

Quinta-tön 8'

Fleute douce 8'

Principal 4'

Quinta decima 4'

Decima nona 3'

Holl-Flöte 2'

Viola 2'

Vigesima nona 1 1/2' (1 1/3')

Weit-Pfeiffe 1'

Mixtur 4r

Helle Cymbel 2r

Sertin 8' ( a Régal)

 

BRUSTWERK

 

Principal 8'

Viol di Gamb naturell 8'

Gross Gedackt 8'

Octav 4'

Rohr-Flöte 4'

Nassat 3'

Octav 2'

Sedecima 1'

Schweitzer-Pfeiffe 1'

Largo 1 1/3' (Larigot)

Mixtur 3r

Helle Cymbel 2r

 

PEDAL

 

Gross Principal-Bass 16' (borrowed from HPTW!)

Gross Quinta-Tön-bass 16'(HPTW)

Sub-bass 16'

Octav-bass 8' (HPTW)

Jubal-Bass 8'

Nacht-Horn-Bass 8'

Gross-Hell-Quintbass 6'

Octav Bass 4' (HPTW)

Quint-Bass 3' (HPTW)

Octav-Bass 2'

Holl-Flöten-Bass 1'

Mixtur-Bass 6r (HPTW)

Posaunen-Bass 16'

Trompeten-Bass 8'

 

Strange, isn't it? Here we have an hybrid organ one would wonder for which repertoire it was intended. No doubt it would be completely rebuild today

in order to play this or that.

But WHO was this expert who said this organ was absolutely faultless?

 

Pierre

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I agree, it's a lovely organ. There are sometimes lunchtime recitals upon it in its new home (master-minded, I think by Robert Court of St.Augustine's Penarth).  I've given a couple of these and I can reassure you that the organ has been very sympathetically dealt with and sounds fine in its new home. It looks stunning! Watching the museum staff shutting it down afterwards (involving sliding panels over the console incl. pedalboard) is also a sight that shouldn't be missed.

 

The Penarth organl ain't half bad either though the Hill at St German's, Roath is in a better acoustic. Shame that HW IV could not avoid improving the Choir division alone at Roath in the mid 60s though...

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But WHO was this expert who said this organ was absolutely faultless?

:lol:

 

I note that there is no 4' flute on the HW, even though there are flutes at 2 2/3' and 2', which seems odd.

 

Also Zinck is commonly the name of a high reed stop, so this 2r mixture might be an early version of the Clarion Mixture being discussed elsewhere!

 

Paul

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I'm revising my opinion. For sheer brilliance of construction, I think it would be very hard to beat the Drake organ at Grosvenor Chapel. I hadn't played it since 1991 but did a lunchtime do on it yesterday, and thought it was absolutely sensational - brilliantly made, still feels like absolutely brand new, and in fact far far less restrictive than it would appear from a paper spec - I was quite cheerfully playing French symphonic scherzo's on it, which it managed far better than some other (seemingly more appropriate) instruments I've seen lately.

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I'm revising my opinion.  For sheer brilliance of construction, I think it would be very hard to beat the Drake organ at Grosvenor Chapel.  I hadn't played it since 1991 but did a lunchtime do on it yesterday, and thought it was absolutely sensational - brilliantly made, still feels like absolutely brand new, and in fact far far less restrictive than it would appear from a paper spec - I was quite cheerfully playing French symphonic scherzo's on it, which it managed far better than some other (seemingly more appropriate) instruments I've seen lately.

 

Bill Drake is a perfectionist and it shows - I've never come across an organ of his that isn't superb. One may not always want to play on the style of instrument he builds all of the time but the construction and 'musicality' can not be faulted.

 

AJJ

 

PS Mind you - has anyone else played the Aubertin at St Louis en L'Ile in Paris? - that is an amazing instrument.

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PS Mind you - has anyone else played the Aubertin at St Louis en L'Ile in Paris? - that is an amazing instrument.

 

No, but I've played St Antoine and hope to get to Aberdeen soon. All I felt about that really was that it was wonderful, but being unfamiliar with French classical styles I felt more limited than I would approaching a similarly uncompromising English organ.

 

Why can't there be more builders like that...

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No, but I've played St Antoine and hope to get to Aberdeen soon.  All I felt about that really was that it was wonderful, but being unfamiliar with French classical styles I felt more limited than I would approaching a similarly uncompromising English organ. 

 

Why can't there be more builders like that...

 

Oxford will be here soon too!

 

AJJ

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David's question is not an easy one to answer. If we are to take the question at face value, then instruments that have been rebuilt, restored etc are ineligible. The criteria must also be that it is an instrument one has either heard or played live. When you think about it, this narrows down the field considerably.

 

For example, the Father Willis organs at Truro and St Dominic's Priory, Belisze Park, London could be included as they are essentially as heard in their original state. The same could not apply to Salisbury, Hereford or Lincoln which have all had tonal alterations. The Harrison at St Mary Redcliffe would also be ruled out as the Swell Organ was destroyed in the Second World War and a new one installed in 1947, together with a second 32ft reed.

 

So where do we go from here? The Frobenius at Queens' College, Oxford is often talked about as being a superlative instrument, but then I've never heard it.

 

Oh dear, I've tied myself in knots here.  :lol:

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Surely the Willis organs at Hereford, Salisbury and Lincoln should be included - they may well have been rebuilt a number of times, but tonal changes are almost non-existant (if memory serves me correctly Salisbury had a little upper work added to the pedal and that was about it - Alcock in the 30s, Dearnley in the 60s and Seal in the 90s would not have let anyone make any changes).

 

I would say the Willis organ at Canterbury would be a good example of exclusion under Jeremy's terms.

 

For me, the Salisbury WIllis would be the one - I grew up with it - things like that get in the way when trying to make a decision! Notable organs I DONT like (and I know I am digressing - sorry) would be St Albans - a wasp in a jam jar as far as I am concerned, and unfortunately my local cathedral now, Wells - muddy and dull, and dare I say Christchurch Oxford - Sumsion in G on that sounds simply weird!

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a wasp in a jam jar as far as I am concerned

What a wonderful description. I don't know the St. Albans instrument so I can't comment on the accuracy of your judgement, but it would seem, to me, to be a highly evocative description of the abomination in my own local cathedral (Gloucester).

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Surely the Willis organs at Hereford, Salisbury and Lincoln should be included - they may well have been rebuilt a number of times, but tonal changes are almost non-existant (if memory serves me correctly Salisbury had a little upper work added to the pedal and that was about it - Alcock in the 30s, Dearnley in the 60s and Seal in the 90s would not have let anyone make any changes).

 

I would say the Willis organ at Canterbury would be a good example of exclusion under Jeremy's terms.

 

For me, the Salisbury WIllis would be the one - I grew up with it - things like that get in the way when trying to make a decision! Notable organs I DONT like (and I know I am digressing - sorry) would be St Albans - a wasp in a jam jar as far as I am concerned, and unfortunately my local cathedral now, Wells - muddy and dull, and dare I say Christchurch Oxford - Sumsion in G on that sounds simply weird!

 

Salisbury had a few more alterations. THe Pedal mixture was there in the first place - it just had to suffer the indignity of being split in two (in order to isolate the tierce rank) and later re-united.

 

THe Pedal gained a 4p flute (actually the old GO Flûte Harmonique), the Choir Organ gained an Open Diapason, Nazard, Tierce and Trumpet. On the GO, the old 4p flute (previously mentioned) went to the Pedal and the 2p Piccolo was given stoppers and pressed into service as a Flûte Couverte. On the Solo, the former Choir Cor Anglais 8p was re-cast as a Cor Anglais 16p, a Violoncello and 'Cello Céleste were added.

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Guest Lee Blick
The last two comments with regard to St Albans and Gloucester are interesting. It goes to show that certain qualities may be appreciated by some and not by others. Of course it depends on many factors: how well you know the instrument, if you've listened (or played) it over a period of time etc, thereby achieving some form of objective judgement.

 

The comment with regard to St Albans is also intriguing. Of all the Organs I have listened to in England only a handful, IMHO, merit attention. And St Albans is one of them! With the execution of the planned enlargement at St Albans I do hope OmegaConsert doesn't revise opinions after completion, from a wasp in a jam jar to a hornet in a bucket! :unsure:

 

I do hope the enlargement at St. Alban's will include a 32ft reed. A nave of that length deserves something will give an extra dimension in full registrations.

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Guest Nigel ALLCOAT
Oxford will be here soon too!

 

AJJ

 

Rising quite fast, so I am informed. However, the President of the College's private organ will be the first Aubertin in England I should say.

 

Best wishes,

Nigel

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What a wonderful description. I don't know the St. Albans instrument so I can't comment on the accuracy of your judgement, but it would seem, to me, to be a highly evocative description of the abomination in my own local cathedral (Gloucester).

 

Small world! I am bringing my choir to Gloucester next Summer - so perhaps from one abomination to another! I don't think the addition of a 32' at St Albans will make much difference. To elaborate somewhat, perhaps I was too harsh with the wasp-in-the-jam-jar expression! What I meant by that was that the sound of the instrument from the nave is fuzzy, unfocussed and well underpowered given the size of the building. In the choir - it is not so bad. However, nothing on the instument stands out as memorable in terms of an accompanying instrument and as a solo instrument I find it deeply uninspiring. Part of the problem I think is how the pipework is disposed over the cases - from what I have heard / read, it is shoe-horned in - a shame really as the screen is huge! A big improvement would be made if the whole thing was re-cased something akin to Norwich or Gloucester, but that will never happen!

Enough rambling - more posts to write!

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