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Digital Recording


Peter Allison
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I was wondering if any of you do your own recordings??, I have just come across a great new product from a company by the name of Edirol (Roland) its a hand held digital recorder, using a memory card and has a built in stereo microphone. I have read some excellent revues on it, and it may be of use to those organists who like to record themselves or others, or for those occasions when you would like to record say, carlo curley,gillian weir etc, or venues where you know that getting official permission is out of the question Its very discrete and is the size of an mp3 player. Guess what I am getting for xmas ;)

regards

Peter

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I was wondering if any of you do your own recordings??, I have just come across a great new product from a company by the name of Edirol (Roland) its a hand held digital recorder, using a memory card and has a built in stereo  microphone. I have read some excellent revues on it, and it may be of use to those organists who like to record themselves or others, or for those occasions when you would like to record say, carlo curley,gillian weir etc,  or venues where  you know that getting official permission is out of the question Its very discrete and is the size of an mp3 player. Guess what I am getting for xmas :D

regards

Peter

 

I am sorry to think that someone would even consider making a recording of a public performance without permission of the artist concerned. There could possibly be quite serious legal implications if you get caught.

 

FF

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This obviously, very nice indeed ....

 

The limitation of this is the in built microphone and how much memory you have (assuming no sound compression). I personally wouldn’t make a recording without permission of the performer(s). A good stereo recording would need a separate mic/stand etc, yet more cost. :D

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Yes, a convenient gadget, but as always you need to read behind the hype. Phil's comments are spot on. This would be fine for ephemeral things like checking the effect of your registration, rallentandos etc, but if you want a serious recording you are soon going to find yourself wanting to do it seriously.

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Guest Roffensis

I have done a lot of recording in past years, and still do so at my own church. I picked up a couple of flat plate PMZs yonks ago and the frequency response is superb, also clarity. I also use a pre amp. Then straight onto a CDR. I have always sought permission from whoever I have recorded, and assured that such recordings are for private use only. Most will accede to the request and are very good about it.

 

R

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Guest Roffensis

I have done a lot of recording in past years, and still do so at my own church. I picked up a couple of flat plate PMZs yonks ago and the frequency response is superb, also clarity. I also use a pre amp. Then straight onto a CDR. I have always sought permission from whoever I have recorded, and assured that such recordings are for private use only. Most will accede to the request and are very good about it. Conversely, one guy recorded me at one of several recitals I did at Parr Hall, Warrington, and was right up front holding a mic in his hand pointing right at me, without permission. :D:D Beat that for a brass neck!!

 

R

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I have done a lot of recording in past years, and still do so at my own church. I picked up a couple of flat plate PMZs yonks ago and the frequency response is superb, also clarity. I also use a pre amp. Then straight onto a CDR. I have always sought permission from whoever I have recorded, and assured that such recordings are for private use only. Most will accede to the request and are very good about it. Conversely, one guy recorded me at one of several recitals I did at Parr Hall, Warrington, and was right up front holding a mic in his hand pointing right at me, without permission.  :D  :D Beat that for a brass neck!!

 

R

 

Funnily enough, I've been looking at getting some PZM's to record the organ in my church before it crumbles completely - there is a Wayne Marshall CD, but it only really shows off the loud bits of the organ.

 

Have you got any samples kicking around that I could hear? I'd be interested in hearing samples of choirs too...

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Guest Roffensis
Funnily enough, I've been looking at getting some PZM's to record the organ in my church before it crumbles completely - there is a Wayne Marshall CD, but it only really shows off the loud bits of the organ.

 

Have you got any samples kicking around that I could hear? I'd be interested in hearing samples of choirs too...

 

 

Can do, I think the PMZs are discontinued, but they do crop on ebay and are worth seeking out. They are wierd as well, they record everything above like a dome, so have ideally to go below what is being recorded or face directly. I also recorded my choristers and had them at head height, so the organ ( obviously higher) came out too loud, when in fact it was very soft :D .

 

Best,

R

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Can do, I think the PMZs are discontinued, but they do crop on ebay and are worth seeking out. They are wierd as well, they record everything above like a dome, so have ideally to go below what is being recorded or face directly. I also recorded my choristers and had them at head height, so the organ ( obviously higher) came out too loud, when in fact it was very soft :) .

 

Best,

R

 

All microphones have a polar pattern.

 

This explains it better than I could

 

This is the reason why careful microphone placement is essential. Priory and Lammas tend to get it right and preserve the correct balance between organ and choir and manage to retain the natural acoustic of the building.

 

:)

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Can do, I think the PMZs are discontinued, but they do crop on ebay and are worth seeking out. They are wierd as well, they record everything above like a dome, so have ideally to go below what is being recorded or face directly. I also recorded my choristers and had them at head height, so the organ ( obviously higher) came out too loud, when in fact it was very soft :) .

 

I think you can still get the cheaper Tandy PZM's from ebay for not a huge amount. The more expensive Crown ones still fetch £200 or so.

 

I'd heard that a good arrangement for them was to have a /\ formation (except less of an accute angle) on wood/mdf sheets, with the point of the /\ facing the sound source...

 

Any ideas?

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I think you can still get the cheaper Tandy PZM's from ebay for not a huge amount. The more expensive Crown ones still fetch £200 or so.

 

I'd heard that a good arrangement for them was to have a /\ formation (except less of an accute angle) on wood/mdf sheets, with the point of the /\ facing the sound source...

 

Any ideas?

 

Hope this helps

 

Like most things, there are no hard and fast rules, only guides. It all depends what sounds good to you and how you’re going to use the recording.

 

:)

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Funnily enough, I've been looking at getting some PZM's to record the organ in my church before it crumbles completely - there is a Wayne Marshall CD, but it only really shows off the loud bits of the organ.

 

 

 

I have usd PZMs a couple of times but personally I found them unsatisfactory, since they appeared to accentuate bass frequencies considerably, thus altering the sound of the instrument.

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I am sorry to think that someone would even consider making a recording of a public performance without permission of the artist concerned. There could possibly be quite serious legal implications if you get caught.

 

FF

 

Frank makes a valid point.

 

Apart from the fact that it is arguably bad manners to do so, it is also illegal, since by recording in this manner, one will have almost certainly contravened the licence agreement from the PRS which was issued for the event (or the building, if it has a 'regular concerts' licence).

 

Each time a concert takes place, every piece has to be noted in writing on a pro forma, in order that fees are paid to those entitled to receive them in the case of each piece still under copyright.

 

Secondly, there is the matter of the performance itself, which (arguably) is the 'copyright' of the artist. I would not even consider doing this!

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I have usd PZMs a couple of times but personally I found them unsatisfactory, since they appeared to accentuate bass frequencies considerably, thus altering the sound of the instrument.

 

The PZM is ideal for recordings where an audience is present as they have very good rear and side rejection characteristics but don’t have a totally flat frequency response. Like many things in life (sadly), the more you spend, the better the product. Priory use (if my memory serves me right) the Calrec Soundfield microphone. You can’t buy them new, but second hand they’re worth hundreds.

 

:lol:

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Ah yes, very nice but at a shade over £4000 I don’t suppose Santa will be bringing me one even if I was a very, very good boy.

OK then; this cheaper alternative won't be available until the spring, but one of the ex-Calrec Soundfield designers is involved in doing the software for it - so it should be pretty good.

 

Paul

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The PZM is ideal for recordings where an audience is present as they have very good rear and side rejection characteristics but don’t have a totally flat frequency response.  Like many things in life (sadly), the more you spend, the better the product.  Priory use (if my memory serves me right) the Calrec Soundfield microphone.  You can’t buy them new, but second hand they’re worth hundreds.

 

:)

 

Hi

 

Apart from any frequency response anomolies in the microphone capsule, because of their design, all PZM's have a reduced bass response due to the size of the baffle - mount the things on a wll, or a large piece of rigid plywood (or prespex) and the bass increases.

 

As someone says later, Soundfield microphones are still available - there's a new version been introduced recently - but they are pretty expensive (which is why I don't have one!).

 

I've successfully used ordinary cardiod microphones as a crossed pair in live recording situations.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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To be honest, I've always been shocked and stunned by the fantastic results I get from one of these little chaps - more than adequate for rehearsal/demo recording and absolutely tiny - smaller than photo would suggest. They're available for between 3 and 6 pounds on eBay most of the time.

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To be honest, I've always been shocked and stunned by the fantastic results I get from one of these little chaps - more than adequate for rehearsal/demo recording and absolutely tiny - smaller than photo would suggest.  They're available for between 3 and 6 pounds on eBay most of the time.

 

I've also been using Sony minidisc - the latest format (Hi-MD, I think) allows well over an hour on a 1G disc (costing 45p) with full linear coding - giving CD quality. I use a £60 sony microphone - which is OK, but does lack bass response for organ music.

 

This is only an amateur set-up, and I'm still experimenting, but I used it to record a choral concert recently (with the permission of the performers), and was staggered at the good results. I'm sure a better microphone would improve it further.

 

JJK

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I've also been using Sony minidisc - the latest format (Hi-MD, I think) allows well over an hour on a 1G disc (costing 45p) with full linear coding - giving CD quality.  I use a £60 sony microphone - which is OK, but does lack bass response for organ music.

 

This is only an amateur set-up, and I'm still experimenting, but I used it to record a choral concert recently (with the permission of the performers), and was staggered at the good results. I'm sure a better microphone would improve it further.

 

JJK

 

As you say, a better microphone would improve things, but just like Hi-Fi, it’s the law diminishing returns. To get a microphone that is twice as good as your Sony, you’ll spend considerably more than £120. Then it comes down to, what do you want the recording for, can you justify the expense etc? If (like Hi-Fi) you’re bitten by the bug you’ll always be saving for the next upgrade and have a very empty wallet.

 

:)

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As you say, a better microphone would improve things, but just like Hi-Fi, it’s the law diminishing returns.  To get a microphone that is twice as good as your Sony, you’ll spend considerably more than £120.  Then it comes down to, what do you want the recording for, can you justify the expense etc?  If (like Hi-Fi) you’re bitten by the bug you’ll always be saving for the next upgrade and have a very empty wallet.

 

:)

 

quite, and sorry to bang the drum for that little Sony 5 quid job, but I have absolutely no concerns whatsoever about its response.

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/coramdc/index_f...ton%20mag,9.mp3 for example - nowt wrong with the quality of that, bearing in mind it was way up high above the choir.

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