DQB123
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Posts posted by DQB123
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What will happen to the console of the Makin organ? Presumably it is made of good quality stuff and could be re-used in a pipe organ scheme? Was that console originally built by George Sixsmith?
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St Peter's, Brighton is very much in the news these days since Holy Trinity Brompton has "moved in". I gather that things are going pretty well there and that congregations are up in the first three weeks. If you look at the St Peter's website, it all appears very lively, what with (harumphh) drums and guitars and keyboards and worship songs. But I am wondering what will become of the organ there. It is a four manual Willis organ, I think last rebuilt by HN&B. Couldn't think that HTB style worship would have too much use for it, but maybe I am wrong. Does anyone know anything? My friend who is a neighbouring vicar went to the re-launch of the church about a fortnight ago and said that the hospitality and welcome was wonderful.
I definitely don't want to get into a discussion about the worship style in St Peter's but do wonder about the Willis/HNB organ. Is there a place for it any more? Does anyone know anything?
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The Wood of Huddersfield rebuild of the St Asaph Cathedral organ has left the instrument boxed in and grossly under-powered for what is still one of the smallest cathedrals in the UK. To my ears service accompaniment is generally based on two combinations: 1/ Full organ 2/ Full organ with Tuba + Octave.
Tell it not in Gath dear brethren, but many of us think that the earlier HNB job was vastly more successful....
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Looks like Bidder 11 is going to be doing a lot hand-registering practice, if nothing else...
So do we know who the lucky winner is????
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A few years ago I turned for Philip Tordoff when he gave a recital on the Doncaster Schulze. On our arrival, an eager young man offered to show Philip how to use the console gadgetry, only to be brushed aside like a man who had offered the use of a supercomputer to calculate the change from a fiver when buying a bus ticket. The recital was given using the departmental pistons and lots of hand registration - and no more than 20 minutes' familiarisation with the instrument.
The art of registering a large instrument without gadgets is becoming lost. A recent young recitalist at Halifax was heard to gulp and say "I've never played an instrument as big as this without generals". Perhaps our Dutch friends would feel more at home on such an instrument than some of our own organists do!
It is interesting that all of this seems to have happened in a very short period of time.
Whatever happened to the fine old art of pulling out stops by hand?
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Did I hear that Van den Heuvel also make this kind of action too?
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Do we know why the original action was scrapped on the Warringtonian Orgue?
And who manufactures Barker Lever actions these day?
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A number of years ago there was a plan afoot to restore the huge Schulze organ in Doncaster Parish Church to its 1850s state with money from the Heritage Lottery Fund. At the time the very notion of it raised some eyebrows and there was some vociferous debate on the matter. I guess that for me the whole issue served to focus the mind on precisely what restoration of an historic organ means. In Doncaster the scheme was to reduce the manuals and pedals to their original compass, to restore the action to its 1850s state and to return the whole job to hand blowing (though I think that an electric blower was also to be provided). Whilst the restored organ would have certainly presented a challenge for the typical anglican liturgy, there were I suppose certain musical arguments in its favour insofar as it would have enabled a somewhat more authentic performance of the German Romantic repertoire - which I was told by Stephen Bicknell is not really possible in the UK. In the event it never happened and instead a brand new console was installed complete with all the whistles and bells that we would expect on a modern console. Consolitus it seems, won the day.
On the music desk of the mighty Wyvern is a copy of the Reubke Sonata - I wonder if I shall ever be able to play it!! It is interesting to consider that whilst many of today's performers use sequencers and multi-channel piston systems, I guess that to play the piece when it was originally written would have presented quite a challenge!
I wonder, how did the average Anglican church organist get by before the advent of pistons? (Perish the thought!!!)
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Curious....
Never thought I'd say it, but a similarly primitive console doesn't seem to bother the organist of Saint Sulpice . . .
Could it be that nowadays playing the organ has become more of a matter of playing the pistons/sequencer etc. ??
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So since there's no reply as to whether discussions are ongoing, are we to assume that nobody knows, or that people do know but are keeping mum?
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This is indeed the case in the Church of England - though NSMs I think may take the fees. In Wales we have lower stipends and get the fees. There are those that believe the English system is fairer (same remuneration no matter how many funerals/weddings you carry out) and those, especially in parishes with large numbers of funerals, who favour payment for work done. Incidentally, the standard fee (in Wales) for a funeral works out at less than £10 an hour taking into account the pastoral work and preparation, and even less than this for a wedding.
Lest there be forum members who start on about how much an hour organists do or don't get, I am very aware that conscientious organists put in hours of practice, preparation and sometimes even prayer, while some will just turn up and play. Clergy are the same. Some will just turn up and read the service, and others will make every effort to provide pastoral support before and after the funeral/wedding, while also giving time effort and prayer to the preparation of the service. There is bad practice in all professions sadly.
As for Colin's post, I find it hard to see why people who never have anything to do with the Church or its musical heritage should want a priest or an organ at their funerals. My job has to do with building bridges to those people, not complaining about them. I can also act as an ambassador for our wonderful heritage of spiritual music, including the organ - and I do, encouraging my organist to do the same. Most of the members of this forum do that, with greater or lesser success, but I suspect no one is going to listen to vicars or organists if they do nothing but complain.
I can't really add that much to what Patrick has said, except that for the most part I find conducting funeral services and weddings to be a most satisfying part of my work in that on the great majority of occasions the people to whom we are ministering are generally delightful and very appreciative of all that is done for them. I thoroughly agree with Patrick that we are there to build bridges, and we forget that at our peril.
Just as a side-note my (Pentecostal) father died three weeks ago. In recent years he had been attending the local Anglican Church in Colwyn Bay, and had become as committed a member as he could possibly be. At his funeral, we had his choice of hymns (one of which would have been unfamiliar to many of the Anglicans present, but the Vicar simply had the organist play the tune all the way through for the people to listen to and it went with a good Pentecostal swing). At the crematorium the canned music was the Moonlight Serenade, which was tear-jerkingly lovely. At the end of the day I felt as if I'd attended the most perfect funeral service - I can actually say that we enjoyed it (and that is no trite comment). To keep things to topic, the music was tremendous, and the Vicar mentioned that the organist had composed a special organ voluntary for us to leave the church - entitled "Elegy for a Bevin Boy".
I wouldn't be surprised if certain members of the Bellamy family who have deserted church in recent years, will have been well and truly won back by simple good pastoralia - not only from the Vicar but also from the guy at the organ console (and a whole lot of other folk too).
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My junk mail filter just filtered a message from 10 Downing Street (remarkably discerning computer!), which, when I explored it further was a notification to say that the petition to keep the Cavaille-Coll organ in situ at the Parr Hall, Warrington has now expired. It turns out that 716 people had "signed" the petition online.
I think that it was generally agreed however that the Warrington Council were aware of the organ's historical value and that it was certainly not going to be put out into a skip! A little later I learned that Sheffield Cathedral had "expressed an interest".
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if that is still an ongoing possibility?
Anyway for information, here is the Governmental response to the petition:
The decision whether to move the Cavaille-Coll Organ is one for Warrington Council, owners of Parr Hall. However, English Heritage – the Government’s adviser on the historic environment – has advised the Council that the organ should not be moved without listed building consent, and that they should take the community’s views into account, including those expressed in this petition, in deciding the best course of action.
English Heritage has further advised that the advantages and disadvantages of moving the organ are finely balanced. On the one hand it was moved twice previously, before being added to Parr Hall some time after its original construction, and there are questions over whether the organ itself might be better used in an alternative location, whilst also allowing more flexibility in the use of Parr Hall. On the other hand, the value which existing users of the hall attach to the organ and its significance in relation to performances, including a longstanding tradition of choral music, is well demonstrated by this petition and many other representations. It will be for the Council to determine the best way forward, taking all these views into account.
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Thankyou to you both. Information on Martin seems to be fairly limited.
Nice piece though.....
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A lot of my music is well over 30 years old and showing every sign of it - covers off, tears at the corners, tatty edges etc. Has anyoen any experience of anything our of the ordinary for repairs? I see that Sellotape have a new product called Sellotape Invisible Tape which they say doesn't crack and which is ideal for old documents. Has anyone any advice on this matter? Also, does anyone have their music re-bound these days? I've got some beautifully bound old albums which I've bought in 2nd hand book shops over the years and I wonder whether ity's worth having a few trusy volumes done.
A lot of the problem with Sellotape is the tendency for it to go brown and then to dry up and fall off - leaving messy brown marks on the paper! My organ teacher always told me never to use it, so the new stuff may be an improvement? I'd be very interested to know what solutions there might be too....
I have used comb binding in the past to keep my scores alive, and a photocopier is also a handy piece of kit for making running repairs.
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As I recall it, a Hill job. Yes good on paper but I have not heard it, I think it may have been "got at". Quite a church too. Perhaps it's one of those cases of the rot setting in and no real concern? perhaps?......
If you think that's sad, St. Francis Xavier's, Liverpool, 4 decker Hill, a gem, hasn't worked in yonks. I made a lot of recordings there prior to it's demise, just as well........
R
On another thread, I was asked about which "jolly good" English organs were available for re-housing/re-building for the RAM. Here is evidence of a couple. So far as I am aware there is nothing much wrong with Hill organs.... Not so long ago we heard of one of the big Christian Scientist Church organs coming available for re-housing. I guess that has had a home by now.
I ought to say that I couldn't care less about the RAM or its organ; but it does seem a pity to have pedigree organs rotting away un-used whilst other organs costing mega-bucks are being imported. But then, I'd be more than happy with a decent digital job, so I guess you could say there's no counting for taste!
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Yesterday's Times article did say the purchase of a new organ..... see here:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle6845461.ece
Peter
So is it going to be a Metzler?
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Has anyone thought to write to Harrisons to see if this story is true??? Because if it isn't it's certainly a serious allegation to make.
I'm not sure that the powers-that-be at Manders (ie our gracious hosts) would like to be seen to be linked with such a story if it's only idle hearsay or gossip.
Q
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Talking of which, wouldn't it be fun to have a go on a real carillon ! ! !
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Well quite frankly I think that it is mass hysteria whipped up in the media and by a thoroughly discredited Parliament anxious to re-focus the public attention from other matters.
(harumphh........)
People in our Church yesterday thought the whole thing to be quite OTT, and I was troubled by the whole thing. We were going to obey the directive and administer in one kind, but instead I asked the congregation what they wanted to do. We decided that for the time being that the clergy would intinct the wafers for them and place them on the hand. It occurred to me that whilst swine flu may be a nasty bug, it seems that if you're going to get it, you'll get it - and if not then you won't. We can use all the alcohol hand wash we like but the church will NEVER be a sterile environment; and after all of that, if you are in the in the wrong place when that dreaded sneeze happens then....
And there is absolutely NO POINT WHATEVER telling the congregation not to shake hands at The Peace, because our lot will do what they want to do!
I frankly don't like the Government telling the church what to do; after all, I heard of one MP who went to a Remembrance Sunday service, put a fiver on the plate and then attempted to claim it back in his expenses!!!
Sister Glenys is very wise. She is well into her 80s and proud to be a Third Order Franciscan. She told me that (the Apostle) Peter only started sinking when he stopped believing! And I think she may be correct!
And to bring the matter back on topic, I played the organ for church and conducted the service, praught, and inticted all those wafers too; I was proper worn out at the end of it all and wondered if I had swine flu....
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Not quite weddings and slightly drifting, I once conducted four funerals in a two hour session at Colwyn Bay crematorium one Friday afternoon.
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If they wish to be married in that church then it is not unreasonable to expect them to have visited it a few times in order to suss out this kind of thing. Most do, if only to hear their banns (by which time it's probably too late!)
There are those who feel this sort of inconvenience is a step too far. Some of my own family have been interested in the fact that I play the organ but wouldn't dream of putting themselves through the ordeal of gong to church in order to hear me.
Buying a 'pacakage' sounds like a symptom of the Consumer Culture; maybe this kind of punter should be more actively discouraged, because they are clearly only interested in a sort of cinematic production.
I find nowadays that I just don't know what to think....
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There's a pretty devastating solo reed on the Compton organ of the Guildhall, Southampton. I'm not sure that it's a tuba - could be an Orchestral Trumpet or something; It's devasatingly loud (and I like loud!) and quite spectacular.
I think that this organ deserves to be much better known - it's a terrific instrument!
Q
Lancaster Priory
in General discussion
Posted
But no use as the basis of a console for the pipe organ? Once all the old analogue electronics are out of the way, I would have thought that it has just about everything that is needed - presumably wooden keyboards, KA drawstops and pistons - and with a good builder to refurbish it..... I guess they could save mega bucks. Or could it be that because this console has (shudder) controlled a toaster that it will have to be confined to a skip - or broken up for spares. Seems a waste of perfectly good organ building time to me (and a waste of money!)