passion_chorale
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Posts posted by passion_chorale
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A project at work led me to be curious about whether the techniques of 3D scanning and printing could profitably be employed in organ building?
see http://labrigger.com/blog/2014/10/07/3d-printed-syringe-pump
There must be many cases where a restoration of fiddly legacy/non catalogue parts in old electric or pneumatic mechanisms is required.
Previously this could have caused a problem, but now it is possible to scan an existing part with a laser scanner, (or design in a cad tool) and then to cheaply make as many copies as you want in nylon, resin, and other synthetic materials, perhaps rapidly going through design iterations to ensure a better fit. It seems to be possible to come up with just about any shape.
Any use in organ building? I suppose many components are rather small, and so resolution will be the limiting factor. Another murky issue could be that of infringing the unregistered design right of another manufacturer (by copying their part), but since most obsolete parts will be over 15 years old from the initial design, this probably wouldn't be an issue.
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I cannot believe that the ROYAL Academy of Music is considering purchasing a new organ from abroad.
Are you telling me that there is not one English organ builder who could not have provided a suitable instrument for the Academy ?
I think it is disgraceful that we cannot support our own manufacturing industry, and I hope that at least the English companies were asked to quote for the new instrument.
The same thing has happened with the car industry which is now controlled from abroad.
Is anyone else indignant about the RAM policy of not supporting the UK companies ?
Colin Richell.
Under the current EU tendering regulations for public bodies, it would be illegal to restrict the process to UK companies. See here, for example, for more information.
http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/purchasing/guides/eu_guide.pdf
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With all that early pipework you ought to be doing Wesley's Choral Song and Fugue! Wouldn't sit well alongside the Bach though.
Yes, you're absolutely right, although for some reason the Fugue looks very tricky to me; perhaps it's just a personal thing!
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Nice organ - I remember it from my student days (people were less complimentary about the bells :'The Bells of Hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling, But Christ Church bells go boink").
When I've had diploma students, I've always urged them to try and select music which gives them the best chance of passing the exam. There's no sense choosing wonderful music unless you're sure you can bring it off to a standard acceptable to the examiners. Thus, although the Bach Passacaglia may be among the most fabulous pieces ever written for the organ, it's long, requires a lot of registration (unless you're Dutch) and has some hellish complicated moments, especially in the fugue (not to mention all those twiddly bits in the passacaglia before the pedal re-enters). (Having had lessons on a certain Harrison just down the road from Christ Church, Bristol, I'm tempted to add 'and it needs a Tuba', but that would be wicked). How about the Great G major (BWV 541) or the Great C major (Hickory, Dickory Dock)? In general, syllabi, even for FRCO, contain pretty wide differences in difficulty between various pieces, so there's no harm in choosing the easier options, to say nothing of those which will suit your instrument. I once tried, unsuccessfully, to talk an FRCO candidate out of playing Bairstow's Toccata on Pange lingua at Marylebone Parish Church. That was about fifteen years ago and he's still not an FRCO....
Sitting Trinity diplomas in a local centre means that you may not be examined by organists, which makes it slightly easier in some ways (they probably wouldn't know a Tierce en Taille if it dropped on them), but conversely means that it's worth trying very hard to get good contrasts between pieces and colourful registration that will appeal to someone who may not play the organ.
Many thanks, this is very useful advice; it's also nice that you know the instrument! Recently, a big choir trumpet was added, which goes some way to solving the tuba problem...
I agree with you about the difficulty of the Pass. ; however I have limited time to play any music (Job/professional qualifying exams) so feel that I should conquer a limited amount of the canonical stuff at the moment, (and it is after all on the Trinity list for this level). My playing has improved a lot following a similar approach for ATCL. As you say though, the risk of failure is real. However, even getting it to the stage of being able to enter it into the Exam means that you are 75% of the way there. I can see how dropping diplomas could be a problem if you required them for career progression as a professional musician though. My strategy will probably be to take the risk, and to take it on the chin if I fail and not to complain after having been warned. And to practice a lot.
Best wishes, David.
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Without want to suggest repertoire, I would look closely at the specification of the instrument concerned. Can you provide a link to the National Register? If you have a chance to hear it, that also is a good help. The other thing to consider is how much rehearsal time you are allowed. The practical points being appraised frequently can lead you to the correct repertoire to play in such situations.
All the best with it all.
Nigel
Hello,
The organ is:
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=E00237
I would have a page turner and use of pistons. I have full-time access to the instrument.
Regards, David.
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Hello all,
I thought I would make use of the legendary 'crowdsourcing' qualities of this board to assist me with coming up with some ideas for a diploma programme. Recently, I completed the Trinity 'ATCL' performance diploma, and I'm now turning my attention to the 'LTCL' performance diploma. I'll be looking at this in more detail with my teacher, but thought it would be a nice exercise for anybody with some time.
The syllabus can be found on pages 28-29 of the document accessible on the top rhs of this page:
http://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/site/?id=1587
The requirements are for a programme length of 37-43 minutes, with a range of moods/style/tempi; the whole displaying artistic coherence. I think that the playing level is judged at the standard of a UK undergraduate level final recital. Entrants are not restricted to the listed pieces, and can request to play other pieces.
As you will see, there are some suggestions in the 'LTCL' category. I would like to learn the Bach Passacaglia; being such a monumental piece I suppose it would have to go at the end of a programme?
Apart from that I'm very open to suggestions at this stage. If we suppose that a performance of the Passacaglia comes in at 13-14 minutes, there would be plenty of time for something else. Personally speaking, I like counterpoint, and so have been hankering after doing Mendelssohn Son. III properly for a while. However, I don't do complex french stuff with fast passagework or much romantic repertoire, and perhaps this could be a good opportunity to delve deeper into those styles.
The performance organ is a very adaptable 3M mech. action instrument in a good acoustic.
All yours!
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I have just had this forwarded to me, and thought it was so delightful I would share it!
Regards, David.
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I suspect this to be true of ALL organ-builders at the time. I know that Herberger Brookes (Sp?) were often mentioned as a source of keyboards, but I have no idea if they supplied Compton.
MM
Dear MM; I can't believe that no mention has been made in this discussion of Patents!
The back catalogue of GB patent specifications at least back to the 1910s can be searched online. This is a search for the applicant 'compton organs' for example; it yields some interesting stuff. To can also specify by inventor, date, patent classifier, etc...
http://v3.espacenet.com/searchResults?book...amp;EC=&IC=
Because of the requirements for sufficiency in composing a patent specification, these documents might represent the best disclosures of how John Compton's technology worked now that most of the employees are gone...
Regards etc.
Method of getting two tones from one organ pipe (1932):
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...mp;locale=en_gb
The polyphone bass patent (1925)?
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...mp;locale=en_gb
Improvements to stop mechanism
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails...mp;locale=en_gb
It goes on and on....!
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Judicious use of 'Nitromors'?
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The question doesn't arise for me, but the other day I was at a Bristol city centre church which pays each of its trebles £104 a term. I suspect, however, that the church is unusually well off. At any rate, it certainly was a quarter of a century ago, when its assets were netting it an annual income in six figures. The church does fully choral, BCP services (though possibly with chanted canticles in the evening).
I sing there as a Bass!
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Improvisation sur le motif "Death Star" du film "Star Wars"?
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Harumph!
(Seems to be dated 3 Oct last though?)
Ah yes true...I followed one of the 'related links' so obviously must have led me away from today's paper.
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"If you can’t make an audience laugh at the end of Beethoven’s Piano Sonata Op 31 No 1, you should become an organist.”
(Alfred Brendel)
From today's Times:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle6856909.ece
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Saw this...very interesting...shame you can't hear the organ.
(flip the pictures around and start the video playing)
http://www.jobs.rbs.com/?source=EBM&me...Damien_Organist
Which instrument? looks like TC Lewis and Willis on the nameplate...
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Topic is old I know; but some users might not have seen this site. He seems to be making use of '3D cad' !
http://www.rwgiangiulio.com/virtual/
Not only that but you can download the design!
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I was there in May, and it was all covered up at that point.
I heard the Domspaetzenchor giving a special concert as well. Breathtaking; they certainly made a few English Cathedral Choirs I've heard over the years sound positively sloppy (in terms of sheer precision, focus, pitch, rhythm, and control).
There is another small church in the town ('Alte Kapelle') with a magnificent baroque interior, containing a new Organ dedicated to Pope Benedict. (http://www.mathis-orgelbau.ch/rtf/pope_benedict_organ.pdf)
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Hi,
The contents of this posting will be rather niche/hobbyist focussed. However the device I discuss here might be of interest to forum members who regularly need to work with embedded electronic systems for stop and key control in electric action pipe organs, so I thought I would place this on the forum.
I will be discussing a new processor developed and sold by XMOS Semiconductor ltd of Bristol, UK. Their website is www.xmos.com. I'm an electrical engineering research student, and am writing in a private capacity. My only connections with the company are that I recently attended a free seminar to fiddle with their stuff in Bristol, and a friend of mine from University has gone on to work for them. Obviously this is a 'plug', but with good reason. I think that this device could lower several barriers of entry for hobbyist organ builders who want to easily incorporate their own cheap/custom/sophisticated/reconfigurable electronic control into organ projects. If discussion of individual products like this isn't ok by the moderators, remove it of course!
The company produce a new family of microprocessors (~£0.5-£5 in cost), and the (free and open source) software tools required to develop for them. Importantly for hobbyists, they also provide pre-made development kits at about £50 with the chip nicely set up on a board with all the ports brought out to solder pins.
Now there are thousands of varieties of microprocessors out there. The reader with some knowledge of electronics is probably thinking 'so what?' at this point.
The key to the matter, as I see it, is that any control system in an electric action organ is operating in real time, and in parallel. These are two things that conventional microprocessors hate dealing with. Most microprocessors are serial devices, programmed with code sequentially, like a flow chart. Additionally, many conventional microprocessor architectures have a very weak coupling between the actual input/output pins and the processor core. This inevitably introduces delay, unless the software and associated 'interrupt service routines' are designed carefully.
The XMOS chip has four parallel processor cores inside running at 400 MHz. They each run eight threads. That enables you to run 32 programs each with an execution frequency of 50 MHz concurrently, with deterministic timing. That is a big deal. Rather than the notion of 'interrupts' on conventional microprocessors, whereby the serial execution of one processor must be interrupted to service something like a thumb piston press, there is a notion of 'events' with this chip. An event means 'process one' can keep running, and a message is sent to 'process 2' to service the thumb piston press, still with predictable timing.
However, a smart chip is useless without development tools which can program it. The company offers a very non-scary development environment and simulator (which you can download for free and fiddle with now). Obviously, you're going to need to learn a little bit of how to program computer code in a language called 'C'. This is easier than it sounds, when you follow the examples. I found the coupling between the development environment and the chip to be incredibly easy to use, and had the demos up and running in seconds.
So why would an organ hobbyist want to consider this stuff?
The company make a big thing about the fact that with this product, 'software is hardware'. So suppose you want to leave a set of stops 'prepared for'. Previously, adding them would have required lots of inconvenient bodging to the existing electronics. With the development kit, you would add the extra I/O lines (obviously via the correct drivers and buffers) to the processor board, alter the control code, and reprogram the chip with a usb drive to your computer. Of course systems probably already exist that let you do that. But they are proprietary and probably cost a lot of money for a hobbyist.
And then suppose you want to add 'MIDI'. With a bit of development time, a piece of cake with this chip, especially as somebody in the user community has already part-coded some midi stuff by the looks of things.
And then suppose you would like to introduce custom gradation vs volume profiles for your swell pedal. A night's work and a quick upload.
Suppose you have a collection of bits of proprietary hardware you need to make work together? The chip would make an excellent reprogrammable 'glue logic' block.
You can even run a webserver and ethernet FROM THE CHIP, and be able to dial into your organ's web page over the internet from anywhere in the world to check up on the relative humidity, usage time, volume profile, etc.... Perhaps you could even have a 'toggle button' on the embedded webpage to disable the festal trumpet while you are gone. Ok, getting a bit enthusiastic. But it will run a webserver and ethernet natively.
Because the chips are designed to scale well in multiples (does anyone remember the Transputer?) you could be more ambitious and make custom boards, with a chip per manual, offering distributed real-time control. The links between the chips can run at high speed. so you would remove the need for nasty and fault-prone bundles of signal wire everywhere.
I hope that will be of some use to somebody; I have tried to strike a balance between product review and enthusiastic rant. The way I view this stuff, properly applied it could really solve somebody's headache. Inappropriately applied, it could of course cause a lot of headaches.
Ps link to the website: www.xmos.com
Chip:https://www.xmos.com/technology/silicon-technology
Development Kits: https://www.xmos.com/products/development-k...development-kit
User Community: http://www.xlinkers.org/
Best Wishes, David Lucas.
Addendum:
The exciting thing about this, of course, is that if you want to set up a company (lets say DiapasonCorp Ltd) selling innovative hardware for the embedded organ electronics product niche, your costs to entry just went down by two orders of magnitude. Now all you need to do is learn how to write in C (child's play, compared to say...casting metal or re-leathering bellows, trust me), write a program (the 'secret sauce'), program the (very cheap) chips with your software, and mount the chips in a cheapish box on a cheapish PCB with whatever custom hardware you need surrounding it.
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I recall the same generosity towards visitors on the Continent twenty years ago, when a polite advance postcard or phone call - or even a knock on the door - would allow access for a humble 'britischer Hobbyorganist' to many quite wonderful historic organs.
Things have changed over the years, and, for example, on a return visit to South Germany next month, I find that the more prestigious churches are charging a fee for 'Orgelbesichtigungen', in some case as much as 60 -80 euros for small groups, though presumably less for individuals.
JS
I'm visiting Munich/Regensburg later this year, and might be interested in taking up this idea of 'Orgelbesichtigungen'. Do you know any places in that area that advertise such things publicly, or is it a matter of contacting the church authorities?
Many thanks, D. Lucas.
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Stumbled on this (fairly old article), apologies if it's already been mentioned.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/nyregion/11organ.html
Makes me wonder if this would be a good way to raise money for big UK organs...in the mould of 'red letter days' for organists, except rather than a trip on the Sir Nigel Gresley's footplate or a flight in a Jet Trainer, you get to play some famous instrument for a night....
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I hesitate to reply to this as I am by no means an organ builder. However, as you seem to have had no responses thus far, perhaps you will excuse me if I contribute my 'fourpenn'orth'.
I have, for many years, used CAD in my hobby of organ design and use exclusively TurboCAD - currently version 14. This is quite cheap when compared to professional applications such as AutoCAD, yet is very functional and does all I need.
Originally I would draw designs only in 2D but later, when I upgraded to a 3D version of TurboCAD, I began to explore drawing in 3D. Although initially this was quite time consuming, when I had become more adept I discovered that producing one 3D drawing could take less time than producing several 2D drawings of different aspects. Moreover, if alterations were made, this would only need doing once. Naturally, the 3D model can be used to produce views of different aspects; obviously, any view/projection is possible: the usual plan, front and side elevations, and also others such as isometric projections if required. Another advantage is that you can be assured that there are no unintentional disparities between the different views.
I sometimes recall the 'old days' when I worked with ink drawing pens. Not only were the pens often difficult to get started, but they were occasionally prone to slip or even blot if you weren't very careful. Worse still, if you made a mistake or wished to make minor alterations, the whole thing had to be done again. Happy days!
John
Many thanks for that info;
As you found, Solid Modelling is very different from 2D projection and initially hard to understand, but it has the great merit that there is only one 'golden' model from which the 2D drafts are automatically generated. Also they can usually do 'exploded views' at the click of a button. Another useful feature I found checked the entire model for 'interference', to tell me where two parts were unintentionally overlapping.
I suppose also that once you have designed a standard reservoir, say, the part can be stored and used where suitable in future designs. This 'design reuse' is a favoured buzzword in the electronics industry at the moment. I would be interested to hear from some organ builders, although frankly I can understand if they want to keep their design processes confidential!
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One of my churches owns the pub just at the end of the churchyard, and leases it to the landlord.
Unfortunately, I've not been able to persuade them that free beer should be one of the perks of the organist.
Interesting aside; Bach was also paid partially in Ale!
(see http://www.amazon.com/New-Bach-Reader-Seba...367&sr=8-1)
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Although currently working in electronics research, I have done several work placements in the engineering industry over the past few years and in each of these have had reason to use various 'Solid' CAD tools, notably SolidEdge and ProEngineer (if that means anything to anyone!)
The enquiry is motivated from pure curiosity/a desire to compare with practice from other industries really, but I wonder whether some of the organ builders on here could explain a bit about the extent to which they use CAD (Computer Aided Design) in their design flow?
I'm particularly curious as to whether they use '2D' drawing tools which essentially function as electronic drawing boards (where each part is represented by a series of lines/3rd angle projection etc), or 'Solid Modelling' tools like SolidEdge. These tools function quite differently because the designer has to express the parts as 3D entities and then position them in a 'world', in effect you build the organ design up virtually as you would build it in real life. I suppose in the case of an organ builder, that means you would have various 'solid' entities like 'windchest' and 'reservoir' which would then be positioned inside the virtual 'organ' top level design. Usually, the software itself automatically generates the 2D drafts used for production.
And do you guys make much use of automatic CAD/CAM manufacture as well?
I just wonder whether the 'job' nature of organ building makes an extensive 3D CAD approach fairly laborious.
Many thanks, David Lucas.
Charpentier Te Deum "Prelude" - Organ & Trumpet arrangements
in Organ Music
Posted
I am just consulting the board to see if there are any recommended arrangements/transcriptions of the famous Charpentier Te Deum "Prelude" for Organ & Trumpet. It's for a wedding and at the moment I can only find extremely "simplified" versions for early grade exams and the like. Plus - are there any obvious "gotchas" that are possible when performing organ & trumpet music (only practice opportunity will on the morning before the service), like tuning problems? In particular, is this a difficult piece for a trumpeter to play? I really have no idea as usually I just pull out the trumpet stop and do it myself
Any comments gratefully received!