Christine Jose Rigby
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Posts posted by Christine Jose Rigby
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Stephen is right - and in the current times ordering two sets of books to ensure a proper coverage (e.g. Common Praise and Sing Praise, which was mentioned above) would prove too expensive at a time when our church is struggling to find the money to even handle the basic upkeep of the building. We currently have our hymns printed out on sheets and only the choir have music copies of HON (which means I can choose alternative versions from time to time), and buying music and words editions of a whole new raft of books would be very costly. I know they offer grants for bulk purchasing, but even still these are substantial sums of money we are talking about. Perhaps the RSCM could start a grant scheme for 'church which use HON but really wish they didn't'!
I would like the congregation to have hymn books, ideally Common Praise, but we've been there and it isn't going to happen. Let's hope I win the EuroMillions on Friday night, so I can offer a donation with strict instructions...
Thank you to every one of you for your replies to my enquiry about the hymn books in use at your church.
I have had experience of most of these books and agree with your comments. I was 'brought up' with English Hymnal and Merbecke, but that is a long time ago. Some 25 years ago I joined another church choir and was asked to deputise for their organist. I have never regretted it. Even with a small choir, their standard of music is good. We don't relish singing too much in unison and by and large, we are 'traditional'.
Our Full Music and words only AMRs are well past their best, but we still find they contain some of the best loved hymns. I have not yet been successful in my request for them to sing Coe Fen, but there's still time.
What I do find difficult to fathom is why a hymn such as 'O Jesus, I have promised' has had it's words altered in HFTC, and has even had a verse left out.
Probably the best way of funding a new hymn book would be for each adult church member to buy their own copy, but that wouldn't account for all the copies we would need.
The Vicar would prefer NEH and has said no to Common Praise. I have quite a little collection of different hymn books but am still unsure about the choice we should make.
I still welcome your input on this topic. Tempo Primo.
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Our Choir was invited to sing at a recent Wedding at a very old timber framed church in Cheshire. It came as no surprise that the congregation has to use the 'facilities' of the Public House next to this Church.
It is always interesting to observe which hymn books are favoured by other churches. This old church had not only one, but two books, Common Praise and New English Hymnal. They both looked comparatively new.
Our own Church alternates between Hymns for Today's Church and Ancient and Modern Revised. We have considered other Hymn Books and we are still undecided as to our next one.
It would be interesting to know what Hymn Books are in use at the Churches of members of this board.
Tempo Primo.
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Hello,
the key is E flat major, so my guess is Bach BWV 622 "O Mensch bewein dein Sünde groß" from the Orgelbüchlein.
Cheers
tiratutti
If this is the organ, it is on Youtube. Schlosskirche Brumath.
Tempo Primo.
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A colleague and I want to perform two works by Dupre, namely the Ballade and the Sinfonia, both written for his daughter and published by Gray in the US. Extensive searches have brought nothing more than the first page of each or recordings. The music shops have drawn a blank, suggesting that most of Gray's published works are now out of print and the Us don't do a re-print service.
I thought I'd ask the members of this panel as you usually are able to come up trumps for people!
Does anyone know of a source for the music please?
Many thanks
Hello Murton,
I suggest that you e-mail Daniel Roth, Organiste-Titulaire of the Grande-Orgue at St Sulpice in Paris. His web-site gives his e-mail
as danielroth@club-internet.fr
Didier Matry, Organiste Titulaire of St Augustin, Paris, was most helpful when I was unable to find his CD of Gigout music.
Good Luck! with your search, Tempo Primo.
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I know this is an easy target to hit, but I did want to share a recent experience with the board as it crystallised so many of the problems we seem to face when wishing to be taken seriously as musicians.
It is many years since I last played for a wedding. Having given up my full time organist's job and started a family, and having been given the run - around by too many brides over the years, I decided that I valued the time with my family at weekends far more than the fee.
However, I was recently asked to play for a wedding at my local church. After some consideration I agreed to play. Balancing all the factors I have mentioned above, I asked for a fee which some might find high, but which I regard as a respectable reflection of my professional ability. The bride had no hesitation in agreeing.
I was first contacted by the bride 6 months before the wedding and suggested a timetable whereby we worked towards an order of service, with all music being agreed at least 8 weeks before the date. I reserved the right to charge a little more if I had to buy and learn a piece specially.
I offered to meet the bride, who lived locally. She never got round to this, although we exchanged ideas regularly by e- mail.
I pointed her towards various wedding CDs and sent her internet links for appropriate pieces, none of which she seemed to understand.
Eventually, after some gentle suggestion from me that with a week to go we really ought to be finalising the music, she said that she liked a piece called 'Remembered Joy' which she had found. No composer, link or reference was given. After some investigation it turned out that this was a piece of, bluntly, hotel - lift muzak on the site of an American wedding organiser. I explained that if she could have got me the music in time, I would have been prepared to play it but, sadly, I could not guarantee to get the score from America in the 4 working days left to us.
Eventually we agreed on fairly standard repertoire.
On the day, I started to play introductory music for 20 minutes before the service. The bride eventually arrived 35 minutes late which meant that I was playing for nearly an hour before the service started.
The congregation started to drift in with about 10 minutes to go. In many years of playing the organ I have rarely heard a congregation talk so loudly, including numerous mobile phone calls (which continued through the service). The only time they stopped was when I paused between pieces. As soon as I started the next piece, they started to talk again.
I played Lord of the Dance and Give me Joy in my Heart (about which much has been written elsewhere on this forum). No - one sang.
During the signing of the register, it was announced that the bride's niece would sing a song accompanied on the guitar by her boyfriend. It was also announced that after this, I would play, as requested, Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring. The girl sang nicely, without it being exceptional. The congregation sat in perfect silence, and burst into a storm of applause at the end.
The second I started to play Jesu Joy, they all started talking again at the tops of their voices.
As I hope you will see from the above, I am not a prima donna either musically or liturgically, and I am more than happy to bring music to people where they are rather than expecting them to fit in with my tastes. However, this service highlighted for me so clearly how as organists in church we are so often not regarded as serious musicians, but at best labourers who, it is assumed, will provide a professional service without for a moment either that musicianship or professionalism being acknowledged.
When I recounted the story to my wife, she mentioned that the day before, You and Yours had featured an article on 'the organists fighting back', the gist of which was that some organists refused to reduce their fees when vicars tried to offer cut - price weddings to prospective brides. In full credit to the priest of the church, when he first gave me the bride's contact, I asked him if I was free to name what I considered a suitable fee, and he entirely supported my freedom to charge whatever I wanted.
As you may imagine, the experience gave me no reason to change my views about playing for weddings and I imagine from now on, unless I am asked to play for family weddings (which always gives me the greatest pleasure) they will not feature in my musical life.
Thank you MAB, for this 'thread'. It's been a long time since I have laughed out loud so much when reading the replies.
Tempo Primo.
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
The city where I live is big enough for the central library to have a separate music department. When I first came here, over a quarter of a century ago, there were two or three shelves of organ music. Many years ago now I stumbled across the staff moving a good deal of it out of sight, down to the stacks. "We just don't have the space to display everything," was the excuse. It's true space is at a premium, but I was left thinking it has just as much to do with priorities. A few months ago there was an internal reorganisation of the whole library and, as a result, the organ music section disappeared from the display shelves entirely.
Today when I went in I noticed they were having a grand sale of surplus books and, yes, it didn't take long to find quite a bit of organ music there too, all going at £1.50 an item. I came away with as much as I could carry. It's good stuff too: symphonies by Vierne, Widor and Guilmant, two OUP volumes of Percy Whitlock and one of Mathias, a couple of volumes of Frescobaldi and more. Hell, I even bought two volumes of Reger! Most of it is unmarked and little borrowed, while some of it is in absolutely mint condition with no sign that borrowing slips have ever been attached. I guess when libraries are pushed for space in the lending department you can't blame them for getting rid of items which attract little interest, but I can't help feeling it's a sad state of affairs.
Sad state of affairs it is. It was a great consolation to find that the Henry Watson Music Library of the Manchester Central Library has
been temporarily re-located http://manchester.gov.uk/info/1015/books_r...62/henry_watson
Tempo Primo.
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Quite possibly the use of the word " remote " could be replaced by " north of Watford Gap " i.e. flat caps and the vowels to go with them , external privvies, et.al. Still mystified though as to how a town located at the confluence of a main railway line AND a motorway connection can ever be described as being remote. I am obviously missing out on something here methinks.
Both Myself and Mrs Adnosad thoroughly enjoyed the musical offerings given by RF and BS. Well contrasted programme items. The hall management must be thanked for their part in promoting the event as well as a certain lady, whose name I missed, who virtually single handedly organized the PR work.
The stage / organ was very well illuminated for the first time ever. Credit must be also given to their stage crew for their artistic efforts.
The bar service was good too!
Was also encouraged whilst speaking with David Wells in that he is fairly confident that there could well be another recital before too long.
Greetings Adnosad, Thank you for those kind words. I am so pleased that you were there 'on the night'. It was all worth it! Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders made it a truly memorable night. The Great Organ was magnificent, in spite of it's shortcomings. The Parr Hall Management were excellent.
I hope David Wells is proved to be right in that there could well be another recital before too long. That recital will be another 'tour de force' if we achieve it. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to be able to post the information on this web-site.
It was good to see so many there and to be told how far some of them had travelled.
My best wishes to you, Tempo Primo.
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My personal regrets that I couldn't have been there to hear these two excellent recitalists. Unfortunately, the motor had to go into the garage, and what should have been half a day's work, was complicated by the lack of an immediately available spare part, and I only got it back Saturday morning.
174 souls seems to be quite a good turn out to me; especially in a town which is just a tiny bit remote.
I'm sure there will be another final, semi-final or quarter-final recital, and next time I will get there on hands and knees if need arises.
Congratulations for what was obviouisly a successful event.
MM
Good to hear from you again MM. You do well to question whether this MAY be the 'final' time this organ can be heard in a Recital in the Parr Hall. If I can persuade those in authority to promote another one before it is dismantled, I will be more than pleased.
I was sorry to hear that you were prevented from joining us, so, better luck next time !!! A good few travelled considerable distance to hear the Bracewell Queen.
My best wishes to you, Tempo Primo.
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Thanks to your tip-off, I made my way over the Pennines last Friday evening and joined about 120 others at the 'final' recital. Thanks to David Wells's attention the organ seemed in good order and perfectly in tune. Roger Fisher's programme of 19c French works produced some ravishingly beautiful sounds (rich fonds, Gambes, Flûtes harmoniques and exciting reeds), including those in the very effective swell-box.
Let's hope the proposed translation to Sheffield comes about where the instrument should sound even more magnificent in a more generous acoustic.
JS
I am so pleased you were able to join us John. I understand those there numbered 174. One person came from Ely for the Recital.
Roger Fisher, Benjamin Saunders AND David Wells have been very supportive of this event.
There were times when I thought I had bitten off more than I could chew after I had asked the Warrington Borough Council to promote the event, but it was all worth it in the end.
What remains now is for those who are making the decisions to decide where and when the Great Organ will be taken. We must make sure that it isn't put into storage at all costs.
My best wishes to you, Tempo Primo.
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Well here's a genuine treat for all lovers of English organ-music, which I stumbled across almost by accident:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/Theodopolis?bl.../48/vhK_XEdSaNQ
After God knows how many years, the penny has finally dropped about the Elgar Sonata.......I've heard a PROPER rendition of it for the first time....wonderful stuff!
It's interesting that Herbert Sumsion did the Elgar in one take.
Enjoy!
MM
I agree with everything you said about the Herbert Sumsion Elgar Sonata. I bought it only recently, and then ordered the CD that includes him playing the SS Wesley Choral Song and Fugue. It is a delight to listen to such a lovely organ, which I understand underwent a controversial re-build not long after.
Tempo Primo.
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Would it be a good idea for forum members to advertise here recitals they are giving in the near future so that others in their area (or even beyond) could come along to offer support and maybe even raise a glass or two afterwards? Just a thought.....
Peter
May I, on behalf of Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders, give information about their Recital on the 1870 Cavaille-Coll Great Organ in the Parr Hall, Warrington on Friday, 17th June, 2011 at 7.30pm. The programme of music to be played by Roger Fisher is as follows:-
Camille Saint-Saens (1835-1921): Fantaisie in E flat - (i) Con moto & (ii) Allegro di molto e con fuoco.
Charles-Marie Widor (1844-1937): Andante Cantabile (from Symphony no 4 in F minor).
Cesar-Auguste-Jean-Guillaume-Hubert Franck (1822-1890): Pastorale (opus 19) Dedicated to Aristide Cavaille-Coll.
Cesar Franck: Chorale in A minor.
Louis Vierne (1870-1937): Naiades (Pieces de Fantaisie, Opus 55).
Alexandre Guilmant (1837-1911): March on a theme of Handel.
Please note that this is not only the 200th anniversary of Cavaille-Coll's birth, but also the hundredth anniversary of Guilmant's death.
Saint-Saens and Widor shared the first two performances on this instrument in March 1870. A third programme was given soon after by Alexandre Guilmant.
Following its installation in the private home of Mr Hopwood, Bracewell, England, the organ was inaugurated by William Spark on November 7, 1870.
Tempo Primo.
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Recently on this site and elsewhere there have been recommendations for the videos produced by Fugue State Films, including those on Bach's Art of Fugue, "The Elusive English Organ", "Virtuoso! Music for Organ" and "The Historic Organs of the Province of Groningen". There is also a DVD on "English Organ Improvisation" in production.
Their latest project is on the organs of Aristide Cavaillé-Coll.
The Project
To mark the 200th anniversary of Aristide Cavaillé-Coll's birth, and the 150th anniversary of his organ at St Sulpice, Paris, in 2012, Fugue State Films plans to produce a DVD / CD boxed set containing the first ever full-length documentary about his life and work.
Aristide Cavaillé-Coll was the greatest organ builder of the 19th century and also probably the most famous of all organ builders. Creator of such instruments as those in St Sulpice, Paris, St Ouen, Rouen, he devised a new way of building organs that led directly to the development of the French Romantic school of organ composition. Franck, Widor, Vierne and all their contemporaries and followers were directly inspired by the sounds and possibilities of Cavaillé-Coll's organs. They composed pieces that pushed the boundaries of composition for the instrument and are now at the very heart of the organ repertoire. This music is indivisible from the organs of Cavaillé-Coll. Each is made for the other.
The documentary will be accompanied by a plethora of recordings and filmed performances of magnificent works by Franck, Saint-Saëns, Guilmant, Boëllmann, Widor and Vierne on a superb selection of Cavaillé-Coll's best organs – expect to see St Sulpice, St Ouen, St Sernin, and more. The performances will be given by the very best players – expect to see famous French titulaires as well as leading English organist Gerard Brooks. As well, a fully illustrated booklet will include photos, details and specifications of all the organs and essays about the composers and music.
See
http://www.fuguestatefilms.co.uk/cavaille-coll/default.html
For as little as £40 you can place an advance order (including P&P) which will go up to £50 + P&P when they are released. The whole project will cost £80,000, half of which still has to be raised. In addition to supporting them with advance orders, there are opportunities at prices from £100 up to £10,000 to become more involved, from being included in the list of credits on the DVD, through to choosing the music for a track, visiting the locations during filming and taking a share of the profits.
They have some of my money already!
David Hitchin
Better still David, join us in the Parr Hall, Warrington on the 17th June 2011 and hear the 1870 Cavaille-Coll Great Organ being played by Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders. It will be a memorable celebration of Aristide's work.
Tempo Primo.
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On Friday 17 June at 7.30.p.m. at the Parr Hall, Warrington, there is to be a joint recital on the famous Cavaillé-Coll Organ by Roger Fisher & (Warrington-born) Ben Saunders to celebrate the Bi-Centenary of the birth of the birth of Aristide Cavaillé-Coll. This will be the final occasion on which the organ can be heard in Warrington, as it is to be dis-mantled in the summer, with a view to moving it to Sheffield Cathedral.
This event also marks the Centenary of the death of Alexandre Guilmant.
A correction is needed here.
After being told, only recently, by Warrington Borough Council, that the Great Organ in the Parr Hall is destined to be dismantled next year, two web-sites will eventually be amended to read that this MAY be the final opportunity of hearing this organ in the Parr Hall.
Never-the-less, this joint recital to be given by Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders will be an event NOT to be missed. Both of these Recitalists have a connection and affinity with this organ, so the quality of the music-making is assured.
Parr Hall has recently undergone a refurbishment and the results, including views of the organ, can be seen at www.posimage.co.uk
Click on 'Latest Work' to see these pictures.
Tickets for the Recital on 17th June can be obtained at the Parr Hall Box Office Tel. 01925 442345 AND from www.pyramidparrhall.com
They are £10 and £7 Concessions.
The programme will be in the style of the organ and consist of music by composers who were inspired by the Great Organs of Aristide Cavaill-Coll.
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If they take the same ploy as some of the great artists of the past who were forever announcing their Farewell Concert, Warrington will be assured of the best audiences in the land.
N
A correction is needed here.
After being told, only recently, by Warrington Borough Council, that the Great Organ in the Parr Hall is destined to be dismantled next year, and not this year, two web-sites advertising this recital will eventually be amended to read that this MAY be the final opportunity of hearing this organ in the Parr Hall.
Never-the-less, this joint recital to be given by Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders will be an event NOT to be missed. Both of these Recitalists have a connection and affinity with this organ, so the quality of the music and music-making is assured.
Parr Hall has recently undergone a refurbishment and the results, including views of the organ, can be seen at www.posimage.co.uk .
Click on 'Latest Work' to see these pictures.
Tickets for the Recital on 17th June can be obtained at the Parr Hall Box Office 01925 442345 AND from www.pyramidparrhall.com
They are £10 and £7 Concessions.
The programme will in the style of the organ and consist of music by composers who were inspired by the Great Organs of Aristide Cavaill-Coll.
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There will be a recital in the Parr Hall, Warrington, Cheshire to celebrate the Bi-Centenary of the Birth of Aristide Cavaille-Coll. This will take place on Friday, 17th June, 2011 at 7.30pm. The Recitalists are Roger Fisher, Organist Emeritus, of Chester Cathedral AND Benjamin Saunders, Director of Music at Leeds Cathedral. The programme will include music written by the composers who were inspired by the 'symphonic' organs of Cavaille-Coll. This recital may represent a final opportunity to hear the Great Organ in it's present home, prior to a possible move elsewhere.
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There will be a Recital to celebrate the Bi-Centenary of the Birth of Aristide Cavaille-Coll. This will take place at the Parr Hall, Warrington, Cheshire on Friday, 17th June, 2011 at 7.30pm. The Recitalists are Roger Fisher, Organist Emeritus, of Chester Cathedral AND Benjamin Saunders, Director of Music at Leeds Cathedral. The programme will include music written by the composers who were inspired by the 'symphonic' organs of Cavaille-Coll. This Recital may represent a final opportunity to hear the Great Organ in it's present home, prior to a possible move elsewhere.
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Hi
It looks like one of my NPOR colleaugues got the reference wrong! p.231 is in the August1998 edition - it's simply a note which says:- "Warrington's Cavaille-Coll. Restoration work on the historic Cavaille-Coll organ in the Parr Hall Warrington has recently been completed at a cost of £40,000. There has been a considerable increase in interest in this instrument in the last few years, very largely as a result of the enthusiasm of the Supporters Group and of Nick Shaw who is on the staff of the Hall itself. Recent audiences have totalled 200 or more. Call Nick Shaw on 01925 643958 for a free brochure, or look at the advertisement on page 280." The advert referred to is for "Celebrity Organ Recitals" at the venue.
The later update on NPOR that you mention, if it says "added stop notes", then the stop list won't have changed, but the additional information (3rd column on the stop list) will have - it was probably me that dealt with that update.
Every Blessing
Tony
Thank you very much Tony, It is interesting to see that audience numbers were so good then and such a pity that over the next few years audience numbers decreased considerably. Regrettably, that is one of the reasons Warrington Borough Council sought to dispose of the organ. -
The choir of Coventry Cathedral, c.1988, deliver the Coventry Carol accompanied by the (I'm guessing) inclusive music group.
There are other clips in the same account (notyobs) that you might find interesting.
Best wishes
barry
Another Daniel Roth - St Sulpice - Marcel Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X6cZfy9uR0
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The choir of Coventry Cathedral, c.1988, deliver the Coventry Carol accompanied by the (I'm guessing) inclusive music group.
There are other clips in the same account (notyobs) that you might find interesting.
Best wishes
barry
Daniel Roth - St Sulpice - Marcel Dupre http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjqbee8cRyw
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I have just had a look at this. It states that work carried out by the firm of Willis (in 1972)
'left the specification and console mostly intact, but the barker-lever [sic] mechanism (in need of restoration but working according to contemporary witnesses) was removed and replaced with electric action. The console was lowered and other changes were made which compromised the organ's original character. At the time of writing, the condition of this important and unique instrument is precarious and its future in doubt. However, the potential exists for an informed full-scale restoration with a new barker-lever [sic] action that would ensure its fame worldwide.'
No other details were given.
Thanks very much, I looked at the NPOR for detail and thought that the 2006 ref. to Organists' Review referred to work done but 'further stop notes added' was a ref. to amended stop lists. Incidentally we have been successful in asking the Parr Hall Management to promote a Recital to mark the Bi-Centenary of the Birth of Aristide Cavaille-Coll. Roger Fisher and Benjamin Saunders have kindly said they will play and the programme will include music of those composers who were inspired by the 'symphonic' organs of Cavaille-Coll. The recital is on Friday, 17th June, 2011 at 7.30pm (Parr Hall, Warrington)
Have you by any chance got Organists' Review, August 1998, p231 it refers to 'restoration work completed' on this Great Organ.
Many thanks.
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Has anyone got the Organists' Review, May 2006? I am particularly interested in page 8 which deals with the additional work done to Cavaille-Coll Great Organ in the Parr Hall Warrington.
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Well, at least Cavaillé-Coll did think so, and said so, and the famous Reinburgs finished his organs on that type of action. (I do not know who did the finishing at Parr Hall.) So there is a musical reason to consider after all. Some historical Barker machines have been successfully quieted down by felt-lined encasing and the like.
I do remember being shocked when listening to Dupré's own recording of his opus 36, 1 in Saint-Sulpice (clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-clicke-oooooh-clicke-clicke-oooooh-clicke-clicke-oooooh-clicke-clicke and so on). But that has improved considerably since then.
Best,
Friedrich
Felix Reinburg was foreman of the team installing this organ in 1870 at Bracewell Hall (the organ was commissioned by John Turner Hopwood, who lived at the Bracewell Hall and was a most benevolent host to Felix Reinburg).
At the time of the renovation by Henry Willis in 1971/2, the Barker Lever was deemed to be irreparable, and/or the cost would have been prohibitive, so it was replaced by electric action. It is regarded that this timely renovation is the reason why the Great Organ is in it's present day condition, and without it, there would have been no organ to discuss today.
Cavaille-Coll Organ - Parr Hall Warrington
in General discussion
Posted