sprondel
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Posts posted by sprondel
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Dear forum members,
the German CD label Ars Musici is about to clear their stock of CDs, some notable organ recordings among them. If you want a list of those, and details about the sale, please contact me via e-mail (sprondel@gmx.de).
Best,
Friedrich
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The best pneumatic action I ever heard was on a Marenghi band-organ (one of the big showman type of organs).
From the card-board mechnaism, this action could FLY, with absolutely incredible speed of repetition and lightning response.
So why couldn't they do the same with classical organ-actions?
I feel sure that this is one of those seemingly "simple questions."
MM
In a band-organ: Short distances, high pressures. I guess that does the trick.
Best,
Friedrich
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How about Chartres and Bruxelles cathedrals?
In both these cases, the organist has behind himself some piece of casework that screens him from the empty space. In Chartres, it is the huge Positif de dos behind which the player is buried; in Bruxelles, designer Simon Platt included a small fake-Rückpositiv in the railing behind the bench.
But then, there are steep stairs leading from the triforium down to the loft. Can't be so very nice to look down from the top of those.
Best,
Friedrich
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Could anyone recommend any particular recordings of Franck?
Yes.
Have the Guillou, on Brilliant classics. Bargain prince, brilliantly recorded (originally Dorian). Exciting listening experience guaranteed.
If you want more Franck in it, however, turn to Jeanne Demessieux (Festivo).
Best,
Friedrich
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A bit before my time!
It would actually be fascinating to have sufficient time to get out the early files and to see what Henry 2 was thinking of at the time - what the influences were etc.
Was it Henry II.? I'm a bit confused here because I read Henry III.'s letters to EM Skinner in Callahan's book "The American Classical Organ", which starts just in 1924, and Henry III. mentions ongoing work on the Liverpool organ.
Best,
Friedrich
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I saw this page of Cologne Cathedral http://www.koelner-dom.de/16955.html?&L=1 and the Klais mounted high up on the wall. ...
"The organ is comprised of a back positive, a keyboard register, a swell box and pedal work. 3963 pipes can be played on 53 registers."
Oooh now, this is a description that really tells you everything you need to know.
(BTW, actually what *is* a keyboard register?)
Best,
Friedrich
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I saw this page of Cologne Cathedral http://www.koelner-dom.de/16955.html?&L=1 and the Klais mounted high up on the wall. I am ***** scared of heights and nothing on this planet would get me up there! ...
Some numbers and facts, just to inspire your imagination a bit more ...
The nave of Cologne Cathedral is about 40 m high (roughly 140 feet). The organ sits on triforium level, or rather is suspended there on four steel rods that are fixed in a square of steel beams over the vault. So, sitting on the bench, you are about half way up, with 20 m (ca. 70 ft) between you an the floor. The case itself is about 19 m in height. You get there by way of an external escalator and a system of open gangways on top of the north aisle vaulting. Then you open a tiny door behind the organ and step over to the loft -- it is a bit like stepping on a plank from one ship to another --, take some stairs down, and there you are, sitting safely at the keydesk with its chewy tracker action.
I visited there when the organ was under construction in 1997, doing research for an article in "Orgel International". There was a suspended construction platform crossing the nave entirely on triforium level. The case was already in place, complete with most of the display pipes, but still empty, and hidden behind scaffolding all the way up to the vaulting. I climbed up the many steel ladders until my feet literally refused to go on (one ladder further, and I could have touched the vaulting). Glancing to either side, I found myself in he very middle of the length of the nave, and having a steep view of the main gate to the left and the high altar to the right, both in a distant haze. Fine, I thought, this is a view usually exclusively taken by angels visiting occasionally. What a privilege. And having had really, really enough of it, I started my descent, which took me much longer than the way up.
The organ is quite fascinatingly engineered, and there is some remarkable organbuilding to be seen there. Soundwise, I did not find it entirely satisfying, though the sound of the pedal is remarkably successful, even beautiful.
Best,
Friedrich
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That's interesting. I have been led to believe that his chamber music at least is very highly regarded by those who know it. Not quite the same thing as being premier league, to be sure. I must admit I have never been the slightest bit inclined to find out for myself.
The chamber music, or much of it, positively is premier league (piano trios / quartets / quintets, string sextet, clarinet quintet ...). If you happen to be in a explorative mood, start with the op. 74 quartet (one of the Munich masterpieces, along with the variations op. 73 etc.). There is an absolutely wonderful, and unsurpassed, recording by the Philharmonia-Quartett Berlin (on Thorofon, Reger, Max: Streichquartett op. 74, EAN 4003913121165, CTH2116).
Best,
Friedrich
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Confusing indeed: the protestant did away with Saints and many other 'catholic' things, but keep names related to churches (Grote- of St. Bavokerk) and sundays (like 'sunday Jubilate' - referring to the old gregorian introitus, which they don't sing).
Some do, or at least have it read, or choose the introitus as a starting point for the sermon. The Lutheran tradition can look more catholic than many a catholic would expect. On high holidays, the lutheran service is actually a regular mass, complete with proprium and ordinarium and including an elaborate, and sometimes even sung, eucharist liturgy. On such occasions, it is only the balance between sermon and eucharist -- and of course centuries of dogmatics -- that make the difference between a lutheran service and a catholic mass.
Best,
Friedrich
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Also on Brilliant is a compete Messiaen set by Willem Tanke on the Adema/Schreurs Organ of St. Bavo. This is on eight discs for around £18. I am a bit confused by this because when I think of as St Bavo’s I think of the organ by Christian Muller. Please could someone could enlighten me? Are there two St Bavos or two organs in St Bavo’s?
The Adema organ was built 1921/3 for the St-Willibrordus church in Amsterdam and was transfered to Haarlem in 1971. In the rebuilding, a Rückpositiv division had been added which in the meantime has been relocated and now forms a "Kroonpositief" within the main case (if you might call it that).
This organ is a wonderful intrument for the symphonic repertoire. I fell for Widor's Eighth when I heard it on an LP recorded by Thijs Kramer on that instrument.
See details and pictures at
http://www.orgelland.nl/orgels/haarlem/rkbavo/default.htm
http://www.orgelsite.nl/kerken15/haarlem1.htm
(In case you don't know Wim Verburg's "orgelsite", explore -- it is the very dream of an organ site.)
Best,
Friedrich
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"Mindestens wir können sicher sein, daß niedrigere geworfene Veränderungen vulgär und unsachgemäß sind"
is the nearest that I can get - doesn't really go, in German does it?
David Wyld.
Erm ... It works, in a way, if you translate "vulgar" as "gewöhnlich", which means both "normal" and, well, "vulgar".
"Zumindest können wir sicher sein, dass tiefe Aliquote sowohl gewöhnlich als auch unpassend sind".
But don't let Friedrich Ladegast overhear you saying that.
Best,
Friedrich (a different one)
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I think not. This is surely the 1985 recording, after considerable changes including the revoicing of the great reeds.
JJK
Yes. And it was my very first ear contact with an English Tuba (in both pieces). It came as quite a shock then.
The front cover, by the way, refers to an organ that couldn't be farther from the recorded one. The photograph shows the little ox stable on top of the Rückpositiv of the Ochsenhausen Gabler organ.
Best,
Friedrich
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Dear forum,
I remember someone here writing that it was hard to come by the CD issue of Simon Preston's Reubke/Liszt album on DG. The Deutsche Grammophon has started a download site recently, where you can get out-of-print recordings as well -- and that includes that particular recording. This is the URL:
Thought you might want to know.
Best,
Friedrich
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I wonder whether this is the place to mention the extraordinary Zimbel III on the Cappel organ. I confess I only know this through the Hauptwerk sample set which DHM let me play the other day, but I assume the representation is accurate. Whether the stop is usual or unusual perhaps someone can tell me. I generally reckon I have a pretty good ear, but I confess I was quite unable to sort out its composition except that there was a very prominent fourth (souding F when playing C - in fact that note was all I could hear). The stop begins at a very high pitch and only the top octave is without breaks; throughout the rest of the compass the stop breaks back to the original pitch on every F and C. This constant repetition of pitches does not make for contrapuntal clarity! Actually my impression was that this is not altogether a very nice stop - I even wonder whether it belongs in the special effects department rather than in the chorus.
Dear Vox,
your perception of this stop was quite correct. Breaking twice per octave, it sounds the chord C-F-A on all the Cs and Fs, so that for about half the compass there are non-harmonic pitches present. It was not meant as a chorus stop at all, but as an imitation of the more or less random harmonics you hear in small handbells. The Zimbel sounds beautiful on top of a flute chorus when there is a vivid treble line, e. g. in a highly embellished cantus firmus in some North-German chorale fantasia. On top of a chorus it adds a random thrill, nothing more. Special effect department indeed.
Best,
Friedrich
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I agree, it is an absolutely fantastic organ. In my opinion, one of the best with Barker Lever action.
If you have a look here you can find some more info about it.
There it says that only the Great is mechanical with Barker levers, the rest being tubular. I thought that was what I remembered. The action appears to be excellent though, no comparison with the tubular actions you got from German builders of the same time.
Best,
Friedrich
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"Tsimbellshtehrn" if spelt with a Z, otherwise I pronounce in as if it were English.
Vox humana is entirely correct, I'm afraid. So sorry.
Best,
Friedrich
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Hear, hear.
Unfortunately I'm fairly comprehensively ignorant of foreign languages. I think I know the answer to this, but could someone please confirm the correct pronunciation of the Spanish "Flautado" and "Bajoncillo"?
Those are on the tough side.
1. Flow'tahdo, with a closed o as in "of"
2. Bakhon'thillyo, the kh pronounced as in "Khachaturyan" (that coughing noise), the th as in "therapy".
Pierre: I don't know if it's usual in the Flemish language, but you seem to abandon the final "e" in pronouncing Posaune and Waldflöte. In German, we wouldn't. My transcription would be
1. Poh'sownah
2. 'Vallt Flurteh, as Vox has stated.
Best,
Friedrich
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Back to the Zwettl organ:
Perhaps some would be interested about the curious placement of the manual divisions. They are in the railing, all three of them. The Great is inside the towers on either side of the console, the Positiv is in the middle directly in front of the playdesk, and the solo is divided behind the flats on either side of the music rack. The large parts of the case back on either side of the window contain the pedal.
Best,
Friedrich
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To everybody who is interested in playing Reger's music in service or recital:
The long out-of-print book "Zur Interpretation der Orgelmusik Max Regers" (On interpretation of Max Reger's organ music) has recently been re-issued (Ed. Hermann J. Busch, Wiesbaden: Merseburger, 2007, ISBN 978-3-87537-311-0, 19,90 Euros, in German).
Content:
- H. J. Busch: Die Orgelwelt Max Regers
(Max Reger's Organ World)
- S. Popp: Zur Quellenlage der Regerschen Orgelwerke
(Max Reger's Organ Music: The Sources)
- S. Shigihara: Herausforderung ohne Ende -- Max Regers Orgelwerke und ihre Ausgaben
(The never-ending Challenge: Max Reger's Organ Works and their Editions)
- H. J. Busch: Einige Probleme des Regerspiels
(On some Problems in playing Reger)
- Bernhard Haas: Zur Frage des Tempos in Regers Orgelmusik
(On the Tempo in Reger's Organ Music)
- H. J. Busch: Verzeichnis der Orgelwerke Max Regers
(Opus List of Max Reger's Organ Music, with commentary)
All authors are eminent Reger scholars, and though the book being a second edition, I wouldn't want to miss it. Especially interesting is Susanne Shigihara's essay on the editions. It mainly warns players of the Gesamtausgabe *and the Breitkopf* editions, as they contain many undocumented alterations from the first editions.
In short, the original scores fell victim to Orgelbewegung ideology, and most following editions made matters worse. Not a single one of the original titles was kept, just to start with. The first editions are still the most reliable ones if one is concerned about what Reger really wrote (and obsessively proofread and corrected personally). The essay contains a table listing all of the editions available, commenting on how close they still are to the first editions.
I think everyone who plays Reger will agree that this is important stuff.
Best,
Friedrich
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Noel Rawsthorne did a fine recording of lighter music at Coventry ...
Don't forget Graham Barber's splendid Priory recording (GEO vol.25) of the Karg-Elert symphony, Francis Jackson's third Sonata and Sowerby's "Pageant of Autumn" -- wonderful from beginning to end.
Best,
Friedrich
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I don't know, there is something about his Naxos-Bach recordings that I liked instantly. Yes, he often plays very slowly, with deliberate accents, and treats rhythm and pace quite generously; and yes, his "Art of Fugue" recording, taken at the large Silbermann in Freiberg, has some strange registrations. (On the other hand, his Trio Sonatas from Groningen I consider quite fine.)
But in Rubsam's playing there is a sense of letting the instrument sound freely, of having it unfold its power and depth. That quality I like, and miss in many other Players.
There are Bach players who have such a sportive rhythm that every organ sounds the same under their hands and feet. Some consider this virtuosity or constraint, but the result often is lacking colour, even boringly so. Try and play BWV 548 with a decisive heaviness in the first pedal note of the ritornello, and yes, do pull that 32-foot. If done right, the music will take on a sense of grave swinging, which I for one find very fitting.
"Gravitaet" was something Bach was after especially, so I believe the use of 16-foot and 32-foot sound is not only allowed but required in many instances, e. g. in BWV 552, 546, the Passacaglia (if not throughout), and in most of the other large Preludes, even in the fugues. Why not make Bach -- and your organ -- sound grand? The organ was then, and still is, the definitive instrument for a grand sound. (And we're not talking trio sonatas here!)
Best,
Friedrich
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We all know that this piece probably wasn't written for the organ, or in the key of D minor, or by J.S.Bach. Present wisdom seems to be of the opinion it was written for the violin ...
Does anybody know of any attempts at a reconstruction of the original piece ... ?.
... and Vox humana added:
As I recall the violin theory was suggested by little more than the figuration in those pointless, note-spinning "echo" passages. An alternative theory, which strikes me as being potentially more convincing is that the original instrument was a violoncello piccolo.
VH is right inasmuch there in fact is no violin theory. There is NO evidence whatsoever that the piece was meant for any other instrument but the organ. Dame Gillian is d**n right, it really is terrific organ music, and the sources do not warrant anything else. Anything. Where there is no argument, there is no theory.
BWV 565 was transcribed for oh so many instruments, piano, xylophone, accordion, pan flute, you name it. Now violinsts have joined the lot. Why they need to conjure up some pseudo-philological accompanimental idea -- beats me. If they want a combination of Bach, stylus phantasticus, and violin, they may turn to the sonata BWV 1023 (1st movement), which is closer to Biber than to what's going on in BWV 565.
Not quite as widespread as (non-)theories on BWV 565, at least among violinists, is the fact that there was a vast repertoire (and much more improvisation) of concerto-style music for organ and keyboard instruments in general; Walther and Bach only were the top of the iceberg. And there was a certain figuration that was called "imitazione violinistica". This figuration is used in BWV in extenso -- not only in the toccata, but also in the fugue. And everyone agrees that the fugue can't have been part of any kind of violin orginal, if there ever was one.
Sorry if I sound a bit annoyed. But this is a kind of rumor-based science some Early-Music folks like to ornate their recitals or CD booklets with. There was another rumor that the 'cello suites were really composed by Anna Magdalena. Heck yes, there is a copy in her handwriting. But there are other copies by her that show so many mistakes that it would have taken some otherworldly inspiration for her to write anything as intense as the 'cello suites.
Best,
Friedrich
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... The awful secret about Lausanne is, that the recording was made from the electric console. There the swell is in the central part of the case directly above the console, whereas the HW and the positive divisions are in the towers, the pedal is behind the organ ...
A substantial part of it is in the towers as well. On a chest beneath the Hauptwerk are the Pedal flues from 8' up and the "Bombarde classique"; and of course the Great reeds which are all available on the Pedal as well.
About the "awful Lausanne mystery" -- well, I think M. Geiser does care about his hearing. At the mechanical console, the Solo Chamades sound violently intense, and the Great an Pedal come in from either side, sounding only slightly less heavy. I talked to Wolfram Adolph about the recording, and he said that the organ was extremely difficult to catch, being very loud from nearby and losing much of its bite as the sound travels along the long, narrow, and not quite so high nave. He had to go for many compromises for this recording (which were not exclusively related to the acoustics).
Best,
Friedrich
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historic organs are listed and protected not the case in UK) and we have decent food and drink and our women - in general - pay attention to their appearance!!.
Perhaps back to the topic now???
Yes please --
I think the specification of the organ in question is interesting enough. A multum-in-parvo approach on a grand scale, so to speak. The Bombarde seems to act as a kind of joker division, ready to serve as acomplement to the Great and Pedal organs. I remember a discussion on another internet forum about this. Without having heard the organ, the question remained: If there is just one chorus of Bombardes 16-8-4 in the open that has to serve for the Great as well as for the Pedal, is it possible to arrive at a musically satisfying result without compromises? Doesn't the French symphonic sound require multiple independent reed choruses?
Best,
Friedrich
An Organ To Be Hated Or Loved?
in The Organ
Posted
In Freiburg, where I live, there are at least two vast catholic churches who urgently need new organs of considerable size and output, and funds are low. One church is near the train station, the Herz-Jesu-Kirche. It was modelled after the romanesque Limburg cathedral with twin-tower front and a chasm of a nave. The other one is the very parish church of the city opposite the town hall, medieval St. Martin. Architecturally, it is a monumental barn, but also the preferred concert venue of most choirs here. What is there is beyond imagination -- cheapest post-war junk, tilted and sagging display pipes in zinc in both cases. I think our host might know both places.
If only the right people knew ...
It wouldn't be easy to smuggle those Trombas past the official consultant though, who is an eager supporter of Metzler.
Best,
Friedrich