Tony Newnham
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An interesting proposition, but I suspect the jury to be out. However, we do know that Compton produced 261 theatre organs in just
20 years or so. (The era lasted from approximately 1923 - 1943, but the war intervened and a lot of skilled people were lost).
The factory, by organ-building standards, was huge, and if we accept that it kept busy for maybe 25 of the 30 years, it tends to suggest that there may have been hundreds of church instruments; not all of them large by any means, and some being re-builds of earlier instruments. Unofrtunately, I do not know the full details or have written evidence, but Mr Frank Hare, (and absolute authority on cinema organ matters), of the Theatre Organ Club, once told me that Compton's more or less saved J W Walker from going to the wall, due to the sub-contract work they did for Compton. This suggests pne of two things. Either Compton lost key staff during the war years, or the factory was so busy, they couldn't cope.
The problem is largely with the NPOR, which under various places, lists a number of Compton organs, which then do not appear under the Compton name when searched by builder. I hope I'm not doing the search wrong or being unfair.
For instance, I know of two locally, at Ilkley (already mentioned) and Pudsey PC, yet they do not appear under "Compton."
Another large instrument, (a re-build of an earlier Harrison instrument), was that at St Martin's, Birmingham: again this does not appear when using the Compton name search.
Even Trinity, Hull does not appear under the company name: one of their most prestigious jobs
I think we may yet discover that the number of church and concert organs is probably at least as great as the theatre organ number, but it may be impossible to list them accurately, unlike the theater organs.
I don't think Norfolk or Suffolk are any different from other rural areas. If I drew a line North from where I am sitting, I think that the first organs of any importance after Skipton (N Yorks), would either be Hexham Abbey (100 miles) or Holy Rude, Stirlling (about 200 miles).
Compton did some work in Norfork ( Yarmouth) and in Suffolk; the instrument at St Edmunsbury parish church being quite large.
MM
Hi
It looks like you'[ve uncovered a bug in the "Builder" search section - entering "The John Compton Organ Co Ltd" does find Ilkley (and around half a dozen other locations). I suspect that either this is down to the lack of a BOA link for Compton at these locations - or the computer looking just for "Compton". I will pass this on the the person who maintains the software for NPOR and see if it can be sorted in due course.
With ref to NPOR, there are relatively few Compton theatre organs listed (yet!!!) - and also, I suspect that many of the smaller jobs - especially the Minatura range - are missing because people sometimes think that they're too small to be of interest. There are also gaps in listings of organs in free churches and in Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. Please, if you have any info for NPOR, send it to the office, and it will get dealt with (it may take a while though - we do have a rather large backlog!)
Every Blessing
Tony
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I think you may be wrong, and I'll tell you why.
MM
Hi
I didn't say "impossible" - I said difficult - which it is. Pieceing together bits of information relying on secondary sources or memories is fraught with problems - I know, I did it once! (For a church history). I hope someone can find the time and energy to write the definitive book about Compton - it's long overdue.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I guess that Graham is not aware of the fact that mnost of the Compton company files perished in a fire at the factory.
What remained, so far as I know, was rescued from R & D when the company ceased trading, and is with the BIOS to the best of my knowedge.
However, it's all the undocumented areas where the greatest interest lies, I suspect; not least the technological and academic background, as well the people with whom John Compton surrounded himself. It's almost a testament to a particular age, (as was the building of Concorde without computers)....a very, very clever generation of multi-talented, multi-skilled people who were in the front line of technological progress.
I await developments with interest.
MM
Hi
There's no listing of Compton material at the British Organ Archive - although there may be some stuff that hasn't yet reached the on-line index.
Much of R&D's archive was destroyed by them immediately before Willis took possession of the factory in Liverpool (which was supposed to have been sold complete with contents from what I heard). What remains of those archives is still with the Willis company.
The lack of archival material is one thing that will make writing the full Compton story somewhat difficult!
Every Blessing
Tony
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Is there by any chance, please, some kind forum member who is able to send me a copy of the article printed in The Organ, vol. 39, pp.136ff? I think this may be an article about the old Hele organ at St Andrew's, Plymouth; at least it gets a mention, so I believe. I don't actually know whether the article itself starts on page 136; that may just be the references that I've been given.
Hi
The correct reference is vol 10, no.39 p.166f. I have that and If you confirm you still need it I'll scan it and e-mail it to you later today (don't forget to let me have your e-mail address! A PM might be best). I acquired a few back numbers recently to help complete my collection, and this is in one of them.
BOA also has another ref. the Organ Vol.53, no.212 p.119, which I also have - it's part of the "Buckingham's Travels" series so anything included in it will refer to an early organ. Let me know if you want the relevant page(s) from that as well.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I almost feel ashamed to post this, but I have a volume of voluntaries for the harmonium by Caleb Simper - yes, he is real! It is something like volume 32 on its 4th reprint!
From this, I occasionally play "melody in F" and "Postlude in E minor"
The Edwardian sugar is almost unbearable but they are both effective for what they are, and I always find I have a smile on my face whilst playing them!
Having put this in writing I now feel like I have owned up to a shameful crime!!!!
Best wishes
Hi
Nothing to be ashamed of! I too sometimes play Simper. They're not great music, but they're tuneful - and simple enough to sight read - and they transfer well to Harmonium or American Organ - and go down well with my congregation. Since I'm still getting over a hip replacement, and pedalling isn't yet totally comfortable, I used 2 of Simpers pieces on Sunday, so I didn't have to practice for too long!
Every Blessing
Tony
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I love the sensitive and effective organ writing in the Church Parables. I wonder what happened to the organ that was commissioned for the original performances of these and played by Philip Ledger - is it in NPOR?
Hi
You'd need to search for address. If it's was a portable organ, if it's in NPOR, it will be listed under the address of the owner. If it was a temporary organ (i.e. in place for less than 3 years, it's unlikely that there's an NPOR listing, but there might be a note in the survey(s) for other organs in the building.
If you're doing an address search, put in just the minimum information - and beware of county names! In many cases, the name of the town is all that's needed.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Tony,
I have looked at the Portuguese version of the site but this offers no further information (I speak Portuguese, a necessity for playing the repertoire and reading treatises and articles both from Portugal itself and its former colonies). If you do get any further info in Portuguese please send me a private message and I'll be very happy to discuss translations with you. In the meantime I'll ask my colleague in Lisbon whether he has a contact in Rio whom I can then approach for further details.
John
Thanks John
I've had a suggestion - based on the pictures - of Bevington as a possible builder. Also, I've found a reference in the on-line index of the British Organ Archive to a Wadsworth going to a R.C> church in Rio - I'm following that one up.
Thanks for the offfer of translation, if needed. I'll let you know if I or my colleague needs anything.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I spotted this on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Standaart-Labial...=item2a13fba941
A metal flue that apparently sounds like a clarinet....and what a shape those pipes are! I know of a few organs where multiple flue pipes per note have been used to imitate the harmonics of a reed, but never encoutered anything like this one before. Anyone else come across it?
Hi
Labial reeds have been around at least since the 1800's - often in organs in rural locations where tuner visits were relatively rare. I've come across a handful. The labial "Clarinet" is probably the most common from what I've seen, but "Oboes" are also around.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Church of São José, Rio di Janeiro:-
A fascinating inquiry has come my way from a colleague in the Reed Organ world who has been help the above church try to track down information on their pipe organ, which appears to be of English origin. There is no visible makers plate or any other information on the instrument, but recently documentation has come to light that reveals that the London firm of Moore and Moore received payment for the instrument. This raises a number of questions.
Moore and Moore were perhaps best known as a piano manufacturer, founded from the cabinet making business of John & Henry Moore in 1838. (This date comes from a number of web pages that all seem to be based on a common original source!) According to the same web page, the firm was taken over by Kemble in 1933. The DBOB entry reveals that Moore & Moore were also reed organ builders, at least from before 1884 until 1921. It appears that they built at least one enharmonic reed organ
So the question is, why did this firm get involved with the supply of a pipe organ to Rio de Janeiro? Did they in fact build the organ? Or did they act as agents? If that was the case, who were the builders? Pictures of the organ in question can be seen at http://www.arteorganistica.org.br/saojose.html.
Any information as to the builder of this organ, and any further information on Moore & Moore would be gratefully received.
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Glad to be of use.
Why not send the details (and your excellent pictures) into NPOR HQ. Details of how to do it are on the NPOR website. Someone has to be the first to catalogue it!
Around 10 years or so ago BIOS NPOR sent out an email breakdown of many churches on their database where they had no idea of the musical contents. There were around 120 or so for Gloucestershire. Whilst some had electronic things, many had reed organs or pianos or even nothing at all. I think I visited about 110 of these over the coming years, sometimes doing six or so a day. Good excuse for some nice lunches and getting to know an area of the country I (and 4500 others) had only recently been moved to on a government dispersal exercise.
PJW
Hi
May I echo Philip's comments. NPOR, in the main, relies on information from organists and others - if an organ isn't listed, it's simply because no-one has told us of its existence! Please send info to the NPOR office - preferably by e-mail, but hard copy is also acceptable. We do have rather a backlog at present - but we will get to everything eventually!
Tony Newnham
(One of the NPOR Editors)
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As one of the resident clerics on this site, (!) I have noticed a growing number of people moving away from the traditional organ to other music. Today in Prestatyn we had a (superb) violinist and pianist and their music was sublime! The organist was also present and was paid the appropriate fee. After all there were hymns to be sung. I would say that singing to a CD is B A D practice and it certainly won't be allowed here. I have also advised funeral directors that if a family requests to sing hymns to the accompaniment of a CD, to not ask me to conduct the service. I had one just recently at the local crem where they sang "You'll never walk alone" to Gerry and the Pacemakers (I think) and that was dreadful. But worse was to follow: The Old Rugged Cross to a CD of Daniel O'Donnell.
Both were absolutely impossible to sing to and what was worse was that there was an organist sitting at the Viscount who could have played both (though the first of these two ditties has a range of an octave and a half and could only be sung by someone like Harry Secombe or Katherine Jenkins!!). I think it is up to individual clergy to put their foot down on this nonsense. If folks want to listen to a CD that is one thing, but singalongaCD is something else.
Anyway you folks... don't you have a Musician's Union to stand up against this stuff???
Hi
As another of the resident clerics, I thoroughly agree with Quentin. I had a case recently - a service at one of the local Crematoria - where there was a hymn. This was one of those jobs where the undertaker had phoned and asked me to take the service - not one of my congregation. The undertaker was well aware of the hymn - but chose, without bothering to tell me until I arrived at the crem, that they were using a CD, not a live organist. And as if that wasn't bad enough, the words on the CD didn't match those in the hymnbook! I was not amused.
There are times when a pre-recorded accompaniment is appropriate - but NEVER where it's possible to use live music. (My "other" church is a case in point - there's no way we could afford to pay a pianist (no organ), and most weeks, no-one to play - but the weeks I'm there, there's live music.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I came across one of these instruments just last week at Hanbury Hall near Droitwich-
NPOR link and photograph.
Having never encountered one before, and being told that it was one of c.30 still extant globally, it was good to be able to play it -with a handily placed copy of OUP 'Old English Organ music' left on the console (I do find that National Trust properties are very happy for you to play their instruments- I enjoyed a good half hour on the Killerton House organ in Devon, "as played by S.S.Wesley" last year.).
The room guide didn't know a huge amount about the instrument, though his guide's pack had a little more detail. The organ part was straightforward enough- an electric blower or raise the bellows by a foot lever, and a delicate but sweet tone- but we couldn't for the life of us work out how to switch it to harpsichord mode- no obvious lever, or shift on the manual. Was I being obtuse and ignoring the blindingly obvious, or how do you in fact 'engage harpsichord'? If anyone happens to know this instrument, I'd love to know!
Hi
Another perhaps more common term for these instruments is "Claviorgan" or "claiviorganum" or various variations on these names. I have a link to a web site - www.claviorgano.com - but this appears to be dead today. A quick web search reveals http://www.harpsichords.co.uk/claviorganum.html. There is an entry in Wikipedia, but it seems to be somewhat questionable on a quick look.
I've heard of a handful of these instruments, but not yet had the opportunity to play one, so I can't help you with the issue of activating the harpsichord - I would have expected stops or small levers.
Every Blessing
Tony
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If the recording was made available by the BBC online and therefore placed in the public domain, and given that the forum member rightfully drew attention to the BBC, the performer and composer, I would have thought it did not contravene copyright. People are cutting, pasting and recording from the radio and television all the time.
Hi
Broadcasting or putting material on the web does not put it into the "public domain". Recordings etc. only become "public domain" once the various copyrights expire. Strictly, ANY re-recording, either from radio/TV, CD or any other source of a recording less than (IIRC) 50 years old is an infringement of copyright - on top of that, there are the performers' rights (I'm not sure what the legal position is there) and often the composer/arranger, whose copyright runs for 70 years after their death (and there are moves to make it 100 years). Even personal recordings - or ripping your own CD's to an mp3 player or similar is, strictly, illegal.
Sadly, many people seem to think they can post whatever recordings they like on web sites, etc. - this is not the case.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I can confirm that Ralph Arnold worked for the firm , he set himself up in business in Orpington months before Kingsgate Davidson ceased traiding and was able to pick up some work from the company . Ralph Arnold retired in 1993 , handing his tuning round over to Martin Cross and shortly afterwoods moved to a bungalow in Pevensey , sadly very soon after moving to Pevensey , his wife ( and chief assistant and keyholder) Joan died .
The Last job that Ralph did in his retirement was to build a direct electric chest and an economy console for my house organ .
Ralph died on the 22th May 2010 and I played the (nasty electronic) organ at his funeral service at Eastbourne crematorium on the 2nd of June 2010 .
as far as I know I was the only representative of the organ world at the funeral , I also have some pictures and documentation of his work .
His legacy lives on in a number of fairly modest , but reliable extention organs around s e London and kent mainly but not exclusively in Free churches .
Hi Peter
I suspect that the British Organ Archive might be interested in copies of the documentation - as would I.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Has the one at Batley gone now? There was an intention to replace it with a digital a few years ago. And I think I have played one on a tour of Halifax?
CP
Hi
Sorry - I don't know, the 2 that I have come across are in Barnsley (Baptist Church) and "Our lady and the First Martyrs" in Heaton, Bradford - and that one is far too underwpoered for the 500+ seater round church.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I believe that the last of Walkers' stock were acquired by Hill, Norman & Beard for the rebuild of the organ at Lion Walk Congregational Church, Colchester. That's not to say that someone else might not have some, or that they might be available from a trade supplier.
If you're looking for specifications, there was quite a full article on these organs in 'The Organ' back in the sixties. I could look it up for you.
Hi
There are a couple of examples of these organs not too far from here. The article in "The Organ" was, as I remember it, pretty comprehensive (I have the back numbers somewhere on my shelves). I think the Walker archives are in private hands.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I wonder if anyone has any experience/advice on this. My church has the potential to offer me accommodation (a house opposite the church) in lieu of my taking a fee. We are a large parish church with services and senior and junior choir rehearsals on weekdays as well as Sundays.
From what I can tell, accommodation can be provided "tax-free" (free of income tax and national insurance) where it is "customary" in that line of work, and they cite parish priests as an example. Clearly cathedral organists are given accommodation and it is customary to do so, but does anyone know or have any experience of where the line would be drawn where it comes to a big parish church offering a similar deal?
I'd really appreciate any advice there is, if anyone has had any experience with churches providing accommodation in this way.
Thanks in advance,
Rohrflote
Hi
I think you'll find that it's only priests and ministers who benefit from this bit of tax law. (From reading the tax updates & advice that the Baptist Union send out regularly). The quickest way to get a definite answer is probably phoning your local tax office - or an accountant who deals with this aspect of taxation, but from what I've read, it would be a taxable benefit.
You might also need to consider the implications when you retire/move on - if the house goes with the job, then the problem becomes obvious.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I used to get a lot of stuff on inter-library loan when Bradford charged £1 an item, but then they put it up to something like £9. I don't suppose they get many requests these days.
Well - I've certainly stopped using Bradford libraries for inter-library loans. The price hike is ludicrous.
Every Blessing
Tony
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The tuning of a reed organ should remain stable for a great many years, and the only cause of occasional tuning problems will be the build-up of dirt in the slot of the reed, where the tongue effectively becomes shorter, so raising the pitch slightly. A good cleaning brings them back to health. In one or two cases I have re-tuned a reed by adding a tiny drop of solder to the tongue, followed by filing to restore the pitch.
CP
Hi
Yes - free reeds stay in tune for decades - and then usually only need cleaning. The correct way to tune (which I've seen but never needed to try) is to support the reed (bending the tongue means it's a write off!) - a sheet of writing paper works well (and also is a good way to clean the gap). GENTLY scrape near the tip of the reed to sharpen - and near the heel (fixed end) to flatten the pitch.
To do this properly needs a great deal of skill and practice - and ideally a "tuning bench" where the organ action can be mounted on a wind (or vacuum) supply at a rock solid constant pressure (which is very difficult to acheive with the foot treadles!)
The stability of tuning of reed organs was one of the selling points back in the days when they were popular (and ISTR the same thing being said about electronic organs).
Every Blessing
Tony
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Taking for granted for one moment that we generally agree on a pipe organ being the best option, and that live music which causes actual vibrations in the air is superior for accompanimental purposes to recorded music (whether from a CD or an electronic organ)...
... why is it that harmoniums and American organs are not regarded as the automatic second choice, being (as they indisputably are) at least the equal of the electronic in terms of maintenance, cheapness, compactness and longevity?
Hi
Speaking as an enthusiast for reed organs - (although not everyone in the reed organ fraternity will agree with me) - the reed organ, and especially the Harmonium, is a different type of instrument to a pipe organ. It was designed to be expressive - and the main way on a harmonium of providing the expression is by disconnecting the wind reservoir and manipulating the treadles to change the volume. This is a technique that takes a lot of practice! But it does allow, for example, the "grand Jeu" the 4 basic Harmonium ranks) to be played at a whisper - and with deft manipulation of the treadles, go smoothly to an ff that can, on some harmoniums, exceed 100dBA!
The American organ developed from the Harmonium, using a different mechanical arrangement, which does take some of the harshness out of the basic reed sound. (Later quality Harmoniums and American organs also tend to have more voicing variety than the early ones, as techniques improved) A good many of these instruments were built to a price (cheap) for the undemanding and unsophisticated amateur player, whilst a Mustel could cost more than a modest house of its period.
They do make adequate instruments for church service accompaniment - but only if the player is prepared to learn how to get the best out of them (just the same as any other organ really!). Many French churches used a Harmonium as the "Orgue de Choer"
The 2mp variants, which came a little later were aimed at the "pipe organ substitute" market - and will, with a little care and attention, outlive any electronic - but they will always sound like a reed organ. Personally, I'd rather have a good Harmonium or Suction reed organ and take advantage of the expressiveness than play a 2mp reed organ - but others differ on that point!
As to their suitability vs electronics (or the increasing - and I find very worrying - trend to pre-recorded accompaniments) depends mainly, IMHO, on the style of music that's needed - and the availability of a GOOD reed organ (restoration doesn't come cheap!)
Every Blessing
Tony
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I'm becoming very afraid.
I have a wedding to play for next Saturday.
MM
Don't worry - the chances are that no one will be listening - or even singing any hymns!
Every Blessing
Tony
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There is an interesting bit in the latest BIOS Reporter where the Casework officer states that this is one of the 'worst instances' he has encountered - he goes on to talk about a '60s style electrification' and that the organ has been 'comprehensively divested of it's character and originality.' It seems as if responsible people have been involved but all the same........Has anyone seen/heard/played it yet?
A
Hi
Organists’ Review Feb 2011 p.25f - interesting description of the instrument in current form.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Little Waldingfield Church, Suffolk used to have a 3m and pedal harmonium - an ornate North American job with fake pipes on the top. It was replaced in the early seventies (?) by a Philicorda (remember them?), which looked a good deal more incongruous. However, in 1990 Peter Bumstead installed the organ from St. Mary's, Thetford, the basis of which is by Hart of Redgrave (1809), enlarged by the Normans. It's a very fine example of a Victorian organ, and fits its allotted space as though it were made for it, but I wish I knew what happened to that monster harmonium.
East Mersea Church, Essex, had a fairly big 2m and pedal harmonium, which was replaced by a neat little 3 rank unit organ by Arnold, Williamson & Hyatt in 1971.
There is/was a rather fine sounding reed organ - 2m, no pedals - in St. John's, Upper Norwood, Surrey. I wonder if it's still there (it's a long time since I was farmed out there one Sunday as part of an RSCM Young Organists' Course in 1970).
Hi
The Little Waldingfield was probably actually an "American organ" (i.e. suction reed organ, rather than a true harmonium - but they can still be interesting & effective instruments - except for the Bell (Canadian) 2mp's - I've played a couple of these, and they - unlike Holt - have the usual reed organ divided stops (split treble & bass) - the upper manual having the distinction that not one rank runs through - the bass & treble halves are different sounds!
And yes - I do remember Philicorders!
Every Blessing
Tony
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In one post, Pierre Lauwers mentioned that they were related to T C Lewis, but prior to that, I thought that they were not.
Do we know for definite?
Apart from the book, I know absolutely nothing about Walter and Thomas Lewis.
MM
The preface in the book is "signed" Walter & Thomas Lewis, Bristol. Hence they are probably the two characters listed in DBOB:_
LEWIS Thomas William
Floruit: 1900-1940D
Located: Liverpool; Bristol
Trade: ob
see also LEWIS [bRISTOL] - firm
Addresses used by this firm
Address From To
10 Trinity Str, Bristol [birthplace] 1863
10 Tyndall Ave, Bristol 1881
8 Princes Place, Clifton, Bristol 1887
Santley Str, Brixton, London 1890
121 Rupert Str, Norwich 1891
20 Kimberley Str, Norwich 1894
11 Spottiswoode Rd, Edinburgh 1902
55 Bishop Rd, Redland, Bristol 1909
11 Byron Pl, Clifton, Bristol [residence] 1926D 1942
References for the information above
Musical Standard 1900 /11, No.1893
Organs in Edinburgh: D.A.Stewart [1991]
BOA corres Carnill, Yvonne (granddaughter), e.g. 5.9.2000
BIOS J24 (2000): Carnill-Lewis, Yvonne, '... Thomas William Lewis 1863-1942: Organ-builder and Author'
Cross references for this firm
Lewis, T.C. - worked for (1890)
Norman & Beard - worked for (1892-1903; Liverpool rep in 1900)
Scovell, Charles Percy - partner with (1903-1909)
Vowles, W.G. - trained with (poss apprentice 1875-82)
LEWIS Walter
Located: Bristol
Trade: ob
Addresses used by this firm
Address From To
11 Byron Place, Clifton, Bristol 1942< 1950
References for the information above
BOA corres Carnill, Yvonne (granddaughter), e.g. 5.9.2000
BIOS J24 (2000): Carnill-Lewis, Yvonne, '... Thomas William Lewis 1863-1942: Organ-builder and Author'
Cross references for this firm
Lewis, Thomas William - son of & successor to
Hence there IS a link between Thomas (William) Lewis and T.C. Lewis (the firm) and with T.C. Lewis himself between 1890 & 1892 TC left Lewis & Co (the London firm) in 1901.
Every Blessing
Tony
Both were absolutely impossible to sing to and what was worse was that there was an organist sitting at the Viscount who could have played both (though the first of these two ditties has a range of an octave and a half and could only be sung by someone like Harry Secombe or Katherine Jenkins!!). 
John Compton
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Hi
The mystery is solved - NPOR builder search - like all computer searches, has to be given the exact information. A search for %Compton% will bring up the whole list - Compton% will - logically - ignore the entries that start "John Compton ..."
Every Blessing
Tony