Clavecin
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Posts posted by Clavecin
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Straight and concave for me. I find you have far more space for your feet around the heel end, and I personally find I can pedal in more styles far more precisely. It also seems easier to adapt from S/C to R/C than vice versa. Have found that straight flat pedalboards are quite a stretch for the leg opposite the extremity where the notes being played are.
I fully agree. If I were doing my custom-built toaster again (now 12 years old) I would go for 'straight and concave', cost of course rules out a replacement as I would also need a new wider bench.
A further issue is how to dispose the sharp pedals on a S&C pedal board, straight or in an arc (as those in a R&C pedalboard).
I prefer a slight arc, as in the manner of Cavaille-Coll pedalboards.
DT
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If you are interested in the French Classical repertoire, then you will find this a wonderful resource.
'Le livre d'orgue de Monteal' is the largest collecton of C18th organ music running to some 540 pages, the music is mostly Magnificats and Masses. It was brought to Montreal in 1724 by John Girard, a Sulpician clerc from Bourges in the centre of France, schoolmaster and organist at the Notre-Dame church in 1765, who was the first professional musician in Montreal.
Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec (BAnQ) has made these available on the 'net as either facsimile or modern editions and have included audio files so you can hear performances of most of the pieces whilst following the scores. Although the site's in French it's very simple to navigate.
You can print whatever copies you wish directly from the website free of charge!
DT
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Very often an email to one of the organists will work wonders - I did it this way for S. Sulpice and for other similarly interesting places and have (so far) had nothing but positive responses.
Daniel Roth is indeed a most humble and extremely approachable gentleman.
I was discussing French visits with a local organist recently, he was relating how he attended a Sunday Mass at St. Sulpice and waited at by the door to the tribune at the end of the service, as is the tradition there. After introducing himself to DR he was invited up to the console where DR demonstrated various aspects of the organ, then to his surprise DR asked him if he would like to play.
I can't think of many English Cathedrals where this is likely to happen!
At Dijon Cathedral there is a notice by the tribune door inviting visiting organist at introduce themselves to the organist 15 minutes before the service, then they will be invited up to the console.
Like Alistair, I have always found French organists to be very welcoming and generous, including some prestigious venues.
David
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For the eve of the feast of the English Cadence
Voluntary: Quiet improvisation in an appropriate style
Introit: Thou knowest, Lord - Purcell
Responses: Tomkins
Psalm: 80 (the one about the analogy of the Vine), chant Atkins, pointing 'St Paul's Cathedral Psalter'
Office Hymn: anything plain chant
Canticles: Purcell in G minor
Anthem: Remember not, Lord, our offences - Purcell
Voluntary: Bach
DT
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I know the arranger of a number of Cantata movements - Rev. Peter Baekgaard in Denamrk. They are an excellent addition for those people requiring such well transcribed material. The whole can be heard on CLASSCD 668 (the Classico label).
BWVs:29;199;75;4;36;143;163;113;9;95;13;109;180;22;1;159;166;167
I can easily supply hias address should players want to aquire the dots.
Best wishes,
Nigel
Anyone interested in the Cantatas might care to have a look at this web site.
It contains the vocal scores for most of the Cantatas as pdf files which you can access with free Abode Reader software.
An excellent resource!
DT
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I've played various instruments in the past which have the Great reed(s) separately drawable - is that a real word? - on the Choir, but never one which has a Great Reeds on Choir transfer. I assume that this operates such that, when drawn, the Great reeds (even though they are bunched with the other Great stops) sound only on the Choir and not on the Great. Is this correct?
Yours in ignorance
MJF
St. Paul's now has a plethora of these devices (I found 9 on a quick glance through the spec):
Gt reeds on solo
Gt reeds on ped
Sw reeds on solo
Sw reeds on ped
Which all look useful, plus all the manual transfers:
North Choir on Solo
Dome Chorus on Choir
West reeds on solo
West Chorus on Gt
West reeds on Gt
One hears various accounts of visiting recitalists who 'got it wrong' with embarrassing consequences!
DT
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As no-one was able to offer any advice about this, I obtained a vocal score and made my own arrangement of the opening aria.
It's nearly 7 minutes long; in terms of texture it's an amalgam of the OUP arrangement of 'Air from Suite in D' and a slow movement from a Trio Sonata.
It's of moderate difficulty, but you'll need a fluent left hand.
If any forum members are interested in playing this, I have printed off several copies which you can have free of charge. Alternately, if you run Sibelius you can have a download of the file.
PM me if you are interested.
DT
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This is a very interesting topic
An interesting topic indeed!
One has to remember that you don't have to go back many generations to reach a time when the post of O&C at a large town church provided a living for the musician employed. Such people were not school teachers first and church organists second, but made a living from their church post, supplemented by conducting choral societies, teaching a limited number of private pupils, and of course weddings and funerals.
This was certainly the case here in the North West, as I recall the names of several revered musicians (mostly long-gone before my time) who were held in high esteem as their 'town's musician'. In many such towns it was not just the parish church which could provide a reasonable living for its O&C.
I would guess that the number of musicians today whose primary source if income is their church (not cathedral) post will be very small in comparison.
DT
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Wow!
Thanks for a most inspiring post Colin.
I shall be playing this famous organ in September and your vivid description has heightened my expectations even further.
DT
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Keeping to topic, I always loved the Imperial Trumpet - a big loud taxi horn - lots of fun.
I too like this stop, it's very different from the Orchestral Trumpet at the Met. which preceeded it (straight resonators as opposed to spun brass, and it doesn't take your head off)
John Bertalot's inspiration for this stop was the State Trumpet at St. John the Divine NYC.
During the mid 60's JB did a tour of the USA and on returning produced a music/slide show which I experenced 2 or 3 times at various venues around the Blackburn diocese.
I remember St. John's featured heavily and JB was full of enthusiasm for the organ and the trumpet.
On a general note about the Blackburn organ, it is devastating in the transepts, you have to get down the nave a bit but also sit fairly centrally to hear a good balance between the 2 sides.
DT
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There is, to my ears, a definite difference at Blackburn. It sounds fatter. I find the organ also has lost it's attack, it almost "spat" at you and was incredibly exciting. It sounds more polite now, and, I think, certainly less exciting. The addition of electronic pedal notes I always truly abhor anywhere, and really if ever there was a case not to add weight, then here it was. This organ made it's name on the unique sound it had, a very vertical sound, ringing with brilliance and not a little brassy.
Someone else please give an opinion. Is it just me?
I am inclined to agree; I knew this organ quite well in my youth, I was present at the dedication service and JB let me practice there during my student days.
I have been to quite a few recitals since the rebuild of 2002.
Firstly, the pedal reeds: the 16/32 Posaune rank is not particularly fierce, and whilst it made its presence felt in the original tutti, with the extra 16/32 tone provided by the electronic basses and mutations it doesn't really cut through now. This I feel is the crux of the problem.
Having heard the organ a number of times since the rebuild including the re-opening recital, and purchasing the David Briggs CD of French music, I am of the opinion that the digital basses have been reduced in out-put recently. I haven't been aware of the excessive 'roll' which I perceived at the opening recitals and on the CD.
The new Solo organ is a fine addition and the other minor transfers make sense.
It's still one of my favourite UK organs though!
DT
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We were in the Cathedral at Albi last week, doing the tourist thing with the 'audio guides'.
Various pieces of music played on the organ formed a background to the commentary, one of them was an arrangement of the first movement from the Cantata BWV 170 for solo alto, Vergnugte Ruh, beliebte Seelenlust. If you don't know this piece, it's absolutely gorgeous, there's a recording of the 3 Alto Cantatas by Andreas Scholl which I can thoroughy recommend.
If anyone's come across an arrangement of this I would love to do it.
DT
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My exerience has been that this piece works best if you practice it very slowly and only bring it up to speed near to its first public outing.
I found using the 'dotted/triplet' practice technique most valuable when learning this piece.
For those who are not familiar with this, it's a good method for getting nearer to performance speed once you have a basic grasp of the notes.
Basically you take a straight rhythm and lengthen every alternate note to give a 'da de da de da' rhythm, then turn it around the other way to give a 'de da de da de' rhythm (one's always more difficult than the other, depending on whether the music's anacrusic or not!).
You are actually getting the finger/hand/foot movements up to speed, but with added thinking time inbetween. If you can manage both versions you will be well on the way.
I used this technique with the opening manual figuration and A flat figuration of the Prelude, and most of the Fugue.
Good luck!
DT
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One aspect of present day console design which I sometimes find uncomfortable is reduced key length.
I can think of 3 cathedral organs of which I have personal experience which have received new consoles in the past decade where the key are at least half an inch shorter that standard piano keys.
Much C19th and C20th repertoire relies heavily on pianistic techniques and many pieces are written in keys sufficiently 'black' no necessitate a hand position well towards the back end of the sharp/flat keys, short keys together with projecting pistons from the manual above can pose problems especially for a player with long fingers.
I can understand short keys being used in a new instrument based on pre C19th models, but not for an instrument of a more ecclectic nature expected to be able of play C19th and C20th repertoire. Cavaille-Coll and Father Willis used full length keys, as did other C19th builders and builders in the first half of the C20th.
Ok, it's a long stretch to the 4th (and sometimes 3rd) manual on an early Willis, Lewis, Binns etc; but I find Vierne etc. more comfortable to play on such consoles that a number of present day consoles.
DT
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he also built my IVP 87 stop job at home.
Wow...
Will, whose operating system does it use?
DT
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We went to Coventry Cathedral today to hear resident D.o.M Kerry Beaumont play a lunchtime recital.
The last time I was there was on a Burnley Grammar School trip in 1969, so today was the first time I've heard this organ.
I was most impressed by it, and rather surprised that it is so infrequently recorded.
In many respects its sound and the acoustic reminded me a lot of Blackburn Cathedral, an organ on which many choose to make their recordings.
What do other forum members think of it?
DT
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Hmmm........
Just because technology makes something possible, that doesn't mean it's necessarily a good thing to do!
Give me Meursault any day!
DT
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It sounds very fine indeed.
I've heard/played quite a few small 2 manual organs whilst in rural France, none by C.C yet, but a few by Stolz and a couple by Quorin; mostly in good playing order, and similarly they have all sounded magnificent.
The common factor has been that all the churches which housed the instruments have been larger than the average British Parish Church, with relatively high stone vaulting, stone-paved floor, and no pews; giving very favourable acoustics. The instruments have been sited on galleries, either directly against the west wall or set infront of it by about 2 metres, encased in a fairly shallow box and speaking directly down the main axis of the building.
(Incidently AJJ, I too used to play the Monk's Road Willis you linked and agree; the acoustics of the church are quite good and the organ is well placed!)
DT
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Forum members may, or may not be aware that the Skinner organ at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, New York has now been reinstalled.
It was removed following a serious fire in November 2001 which caused extensive smoke damage and required the whole of the interior of the Cathedral to be chemically cleaned.
video is part of the redidication service from November 2008 and features the famous 'State Trumpets'.You will also find several other varied videos recorded within the last 5 months.
It's a vast building; the distance between the 'State Trumpets' and the console is a lot further than that at St. Paul's.
DT
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To learn something means to create a strong pathway and this is done simply by going over something in exactly the same way. . . . .
There is a danger here - performers may rehearse a piece until they can play it without thinking at all.
At the front of a Chopin volume containing one of the pieces I've been working on recently is an editorial essay which talks about contemporary methods for learning pieces.
One method suggested is that the student should be able to repeat the piece/passage/page whilst reading a book, newspaper, or whatever.
Surprisingly enough it's acually do-able, mind you, the essay doesn't say whether or not you have to read out-loud, I think that would probably be even harder.
This could become a new party trick, rather like playing Widor's Toccata blindfolded; the audience selects the text to be read!
DT
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Absolutely. I've heard her play the whole of Ravel's Tombeau de Couperin at St Eustache, from memory too!!
Now that's something I would really like to hear.
I love Ravel's piano music and have done this suite on the piano over the last couple of years, but not finished the Toccata; it's relentless!
Ravel didn't orchestrate the Fugue and Toccata, and I just can't envisage Toccata on the organ at all. Thomas Trotter plays his version of the suite, but I think only the 4 orchestrated pieces.
Are you aware of any organ recordings of it?
DT
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On a different note: an earlier posting to this thread commented on the original specification for the Echo Organ. I would be VERY surprised if that could be achieved for the £86,000 quoted (is this a mistake David?),
No mistake; but I don't think the wording necessarily implies that an Echo Organ would be built to the 'original specification'.
I too would be most surprised.
DT
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I have in front of me the 1965 booklet 'The organs of Liverpool Cathedral' written by Noel Rawsthorne.
I too still have my copy of this.
However, I do remember someone once lending me a much earlier booklet describing the organ which may well have been one of these by R. Meyrick-Roberts; listed here on one of my favourite web-sites: Abe Books.
I think it featured photos of the stop jambs. It is probably your best bet for determining the original composition of the mixtures, unless David Wylde feels like contributing!
Whilst we are on the subject, what's the correct story about the removal of the original nave console and what what happened to it?
DT
Photocopying For Awkward Page Turns
in General discussion
Posted
I use Sibelius software and for some of my romantic/C20th pieces compile an A4 sheet of page turns which sits to the right-hand side of the copy.
If there's an awkward turn I transcribe up to a point where it becomes more managable to turn the page, I sometimes put up to 4 'turns' on an A4 sheet.
I also find this very useful when learning new pieces, especially if a tricky passage goes over a page-turn.
DT