[Alexandra Palace -ivan Barnwell's Book]

Thanks Tony

The problem of course, as always is that there is no-one alive today who could supply the information I need.

I will certainly look at the NPOR Register again as you suggest.

I do need to know where the organ was situated, and whether it accompanied pantomines or perhaps silent film shows, when the theatre was operated as a cinema.

I am still looking for the church ! and I only live a mile away.

When one of the AP bidders talked about relocating the Willis, I did suggest to the newspaper reporter who was interviewing me, that the theatre was the only suitable location, not being aware of the above.

Colin Richell

[Alexandra Palace -ivan Barnwell's Book]

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I know that the Alexandra Palace organ site is blocked, but I wonder whether I might be able to mention another organ installed in Ally Pally in 1875 ?

Recently whilst browsing on the internet, I logged into the National Pipe Organ Register, to seek information on the AP Willis organ,

To my great surprise, when I typed in "Alexandra Palace", I was met with the words "Alexandra Palace Theatre",

As a member of the Theatre Committee, I, and my colleagues were unaware that a pipe organ had ever been installed in the theatre.

The NPO Register does provide details of the organ (a Willis) and they have agreed to supply further information if possible.

What I need to know is when the organ was installed and removed, and where it was situted in the theatre, and how often it was used.

Apparently the organ was moved to Trinity Road Methodist Church, but does it still exist ?

It is strange that no archive mateiral on the theatre mentions the organ.

Can anyone help ?

Many thanks

Colin Richell.

[Royal Albert Hall]

Could you give me time to consult John Mander on your request - I think that he is sur le continent at the moment, so I will have to e-mail him and await his answer - in the meantime, any chance instead of your putting your updates on another web site and then posting the URL of that web site here?

 

Mander Organs webmaster

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I do not realy know any other web sites that I could use.

Probably best to wait until you hear from John.

 

Colin Richell

[Royal Albert Hall]

I have now served my penance, and it is good to be back.

I have spent much time reading the messages on this site, and I see that there is frequent reference to the Alexandra Palace Organ.

As I have some up to date news about the developers, I hope that the Moderator will unlock the AP site.

There is obviously much disagreement about the RAH organ and Dame Gillian Weir. I did not attend the concert, and i am not an organist, and for that reason I do not consider that I should criticise anyone's playing unless I were in their class.

Obviously some people feel obliged to impose their opinions on us mortals, whereas I am passionate about the AP organ, and I have tried to explain why I am no longer OFFICIALLY involved. not attempting to convince everyone that the restoration WILL be completed, only to those who are prepared to believe it.

The RAH is perfect for organ concerts,and does not have to share space with exhibitions etc.

I am delighted that the RAH organ was restored. but I do not have any passion about the RFH organ, but perhaps I do not like the building.

I hope the Moderator will allow me to advise AP developments, to those who are interested,

Colin Richell (My real name and proud of it)

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

As to inaccurate statements, a posting recorded that the last concert attracted 74 patrons.

My counting of people totalled 30 persons, but some of the Friends who did a head count tell me that there were in fact 25 persons in the audience.

[line deleted by moderator]

Why should we donate hard earned money to sponsor loss making concerts ?

In all our years in the Appeal, myself and colleagues were often threatened with legal action, so we are used to it. This would at least bring everything out in the open, and I have a barrister friend who would assist.I also have insurance.

As to the meeting re the "missing pipes ", I stated that I MAY have been at the meeting, but I need the date to confirm this. of course minutes of meetings were always 100% accurate weren't they ?I did speak to the former contracts manager at another meeting about the "missing pipes" but he did seem unaware of this.

He is now a member of the Appeal Committee,

If an organ consultant recommended that Willis should undertake the restoration, who is going to object ? but give other companies the opportunity to quote.

I am afraid that Mr Wyld has spent the last few years [word deleted by moderator] that everyone is against him, and that they are all trying to destroy his company, and that he will take everyone to Court etc, it all becomes very boring.

So he is going to report me to the Chair of the Trustees, John Mander, and probabaly the egg marketing board, office of fair trading, the Church Times. Ian Tracey and the I.BO. I am in constant touch with the Chairman of the AP Trustees and most of the Trustees. I hope they regard me as an honourable person.

I apologise in advance to all the Appeal members for the pitiful standard of this message.

We can make no plans until the developers intentions are known

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

Richard

Sometimes I find it difficult to understand where you stand with the Appeal and Willise's. One minute you are castigating Willis for not allowing tendering, and the next minute you are telling us how wonderful they are to stick with Ally Pally.!

Richard, you very well know that no other organ builders have ever been approached to tune or maintain the organ, because the Appeal would not allow any other Company to become involved, and also the pipes just happen to be in the Willis factory-very convenient.

I agree that we should be grateful to Henry for removing the organ to Petersfield, and he would have removed the larger pipes if the GLC had allowed him to.

We should also be eternally grateful to Fred Clarke and Bert Neale for the partial restoration in 1990.

If you can assure me that the recent work has been undertaken free under guarantee, then I shall personally thank Henry Willis.with all my heart.

A minor Appeal member is someone who is not an officer, or Friends secretary, or concert organiser, just an ordinary member who attends meetings and perhaps concerts. Hope that is clear now.

I see that Henry Willis has now joined us on the web site. I hope that he is well.

Henry mentions a meeting where apparently the committee agreed the reasons for removing choir organ pipes.Firstly, whilst I may have been in attendance, this does not mean that I approved of the action, but if my protests were not minuted, then no-one would know any different.

But, in any case didn't the Appeal member say that the Palace was responsible for the organ and that they paid for tuning and maintenance.? In fact the Palace were not aware that the pipes had been taken, but the Appeal had no right to discuss or agree the action. Hope that is clear now. because Henry appears to be confused.

I suggest to any accredited organ builder to become detached from the Appeal totally so that they are not accused of being favoured in any way.

I would never agree that your contributions are of "pitiful standard", a rather snobbish comment I believe.

Best wishes

Colin Richell

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

I am very grateful that so many contributors are commenting on the Willis Organ saga, and it is healthy that some do not agree with my opinions, so we must all be shocked that a minor member of The Appeal states, and I quote "a glance at the pitiful standards of some of the contributions to this debate".

An apology is due to Roffensis, Newbie, and others who care enough to take time to write.

I agree that at the end of the day it is up to the owners of the Organ(fitted and unfitted) to place the contract for the restoration, and as the Palace is required to implement tendering for any of its own works, it could hardly agree to a different process for the organ restoration.

Potential donors have walked away because they will not be forced to provide funding when there is only one nominated organ builder who for some reason the Appeal has total allegiance to. Perhaps this should be investigated.

Any organ advisor would also recommend tendering, so obviously everyone is wrong except for the Appeal.

Whilst I was a loyal member of the Appeal, there was only ever one organ builder mentioned, an employee also sat on the Committee, was organ curator and forcibly expressed his opinions about the restoration. This was unhealthy, and another reason why potential donors would not touch the scheme with a barge pole.

This is fact and I wish it were not so.

The restoration quotation is not realisitic, and is misleading to all of us. We could end up with a scenario where the money is raised, the Appeal's preferred organ builder is awarded the contract, he then finds that he will lose money on the contract. and will spend the next 10 years moaning about it.

It appears that my contention that the "choir organ" was fully paid for is a figment of my imagination. The excellent unofficial web site will provide evidence of this, and the "official web site" states in black and white that the choir organ was completed. Would any organ builder complete work without the money up front ?

To sum up, a tendering process must be activated, and up to date quotations obtained from I.B.O. recommended organ building companies.

Once again, I am grateful for any contributions, even if The Appeal are not.

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

Dear Richard

I am unable to reply to you personally because my outlook express is down again !

With reference to the Contra viola 16ft, is this not part of the choir organ, and was the choir organ not fully paid for by the Foundation for Sports and Arts?

Why was this missing for so long and is our money paying for its restoration ?

Are there not other ranks missing from their previous installation ?

Its all very nice to give the organ builder much needed work, but I also wonder whether the organ builder and curator should be one and the same person.

Thanks for your continuing interest in the Willis organ.

sincerely

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

Richard

I have already told you in a private e-mail, the changes I hope to see next year.

If I stated these on this message board in public view, you and others would criticise me !

I told you that I had a meeting with Palace officials on the same evening, which finished at 9-15. By the time I had reached the Great Hall, the last notes were sounding. I have not attended a concert since my "retirement", and I do not intend to because at the age of 64 I cannot contend with threats.

My contention is, that as the organ is deteriorating

, would it not be better to suspend concerts rather than have discontented concert goers vowing not to return because of the condition of the instrument ?

The truth is that concerts are obviously losing money, and therefore not contributing anything to the funds.

The AP Trustees must know that the Appeal have lost as many as 120 people attending concerts, and concerts were suspended in my time for 12 months.

Richard, knowing how you feel about piecemeal work being carried out, I am surprised that you are so excited about the 16ft Viola being returned, Perhaps you know where it went ?

I hope that I have explained myself satisfactorily.

Best wishes

Colin Richell,

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

One is intrigued to know what dramatic changes are to take place? Why on earth did you not go into the building and hear the organ for yourself? I see that the Contra Viola 16 ft. has been restored to the Choir Organ and was used that day by Stephen Disley, so it would be good to hear comments about that. It would also be good to see one or two photographs of the pipework on the official site. I am delighted to "learn" that the organ is not being sold, and  have to say it is no  surprise to me! As to the water damage, it seems that this is being dealt with and the roof above has been repaired. These things can and do happen anywhere. I think it good to continue use of the organ until it is taken down fully for rebuild. No instrument gains from not being used, and Ally Pally organ is used more frequently for recitals than St Georges Hall here in Liverpool.

All best,

Richard

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[Alexandra Palace Organ]

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I believe that I have already stated that I was at the Palace on Wednesday for a meeting, and I managed to look through the Great Hall windows, and I would have said that barely 30 people were in attendance, for Stephen Disley's concert a far cry from the 150 plus who attended the concerts. which I organised .The concert finished at 9-15pm,hardly value for money.

At present the organ builders are undertaking unneccessary work on the organ resulting in even less stops being operative, and as water damage has been discovered, would it not be better to suspend concerts for the time being, thus saving the cash strapped Palace considerable expense.?

In 2006 hopefully you will all see dramatic changes,

Incidentally I spoke to A Palace Trustee this evening, who assured me that the Willis organ would not be sold.

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

I think many are sad about the continuing lack of a tendering process, and I think a lot will be simply voting with their feet. Certainly if the current state of things continues it is going to struggle. A return to the "adopt a pipe" scheme may help, but adding pipes is not the answer either, as has been said before. There needs to be a thorough revision of the whole issue. People ARE certainly interested in this instrument, as was proved by the reopening. I would be interested to know why there has been no tendering process, and the appeal may wish to comment on this.

I was unable to attend Stephen Disley's recital at AP recently, but wonder if anyone on here did attend, and it would be interesting to learn what the attendance was. Clearly, if it was poor then people by now should be taking note and learning from it. To sling away an organ because things are not how they could be, or should be, is wrong. I think most are tired of the whole sorry saga, which looks set to continue for another 50 years. When is the proper frame being built? when IS the job proposed to be finished? these are issues that should be set out clearly. The lot has to come down anyway. People want to know that there is a definite scheme. It is high time to have it restored under a tendering process, as would happen anywhere. I applaude the appeal for it's efforts, but not always for the way things are being done. It desperately needs revision, and should have been long finished. It is true to say that those of differing opinions should join forces in a common effort to achieve it's completion.

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[Alexandra Palace Organ]

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Dear Richard

I am glad that you found the consultant's report interesting. Having employed him, it would have been crazy to have ignored the comments, advice, and recommendations, but that is what the Appeal did, obviously now to their deep regret.

You cannot fool all of the public all of the time, and at last this has been recognised.

We need to wipe the slate clean and start again, and I hope that you and the thousands of Ally Pally organ supporters will join us.

Please read www.alexandrapalace. organ.com or ask any questions on this site,

sincerely

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

Dear Colin,

All of the work concerning the organ is on the official website for all to see, and so there are no outsiders surely? Anyone can put a website on the internet and it is a free country, so I am told  but my point is still the same, there should always be caution when dealing with sensitive issues such as the organ of the Alexandra Palace, and one needs to look at the wider implications of "outing" letters and so on that really should be private, and really fuel unhelpful gossip. The organ world is full of that already. It has only ever been my policy in life to tell people what they need to know. What they WANT to know is a different matter, and there are ways to go about things and achieve more in the long term, rather than get peoples backs up. I did however find the Bell report very interesting and constructive indeed.

All best,

Richard.

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[Alexandra Palace Organ]

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Richard

It would have nice to have been told directly what work was being carried out as a large donor and former official rather than hearing it from an outsider.,bearing in mind that I am not allowed to be a Friend of the organ and am not welcome at concerts.

Who is being childish.?

I am disappointed that you do not approve of the unofficial web site.

It was set up after we found we could not continue to be part of the activities of the Appeal Committee.

You have often accused me of "deserting a sinking ship" but our web site will inform you why I am no longer "officially involved", and although I accept that you are a supporter of the Appeal rather than us. no fair minded person could fail to be shocked at how a registered charity conducts its business,In all honesty we could not condone it, and frankly the 5 who resigned or were discarded are glad to be out of it.

Please read our web site with an open mind, and I would be happy to contact you on a private basis,as I do have your address in Liverpool.

I hope that you will be pleased that the 5 people continue to work behind the scenes, and that the organ has not lost their talent and commitment.

sincerely

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

Yes I have read the various bits and pieces on the website, but I cannot and would not comment. The way forward is quite clear. We all know this. I am, however, saddened by the unofficial website content, as it does nothing positive, and does not really do itself any good being so controversial and frankly outspoken. Your references to "spies".... amuses me as there has been no secrecy whatever about the two ranks being put into the organ or who is doing the work, or of the solo division being lowered because of temperature etc. If the organ were complete and basically enclosed this would not be such a consideration, and I personally consider this current exercise wasteful. But, the appeal has been very forthcoming about it all, and also explained everything well. Hatchets should be buried, and things should move on now. The time has come to halt further additions, as it has reached a stage where money will actually be wasted. The lot will simply have to come down in the future and the new proper frame built. Far better to concentrate on that now. Far better actually to concentrate on funding the lot!, and that is only going to happen with the T word. There are no winners in this "game". Plersonal preference has no place, and the good of the organ has to be the only priority. Nothing ese should matter in the least. A little care, common sense, and prudent help can facilitate a great deal.

All best,

Richard Astridge

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[Alexandra Palace Organ]

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I assume that you have read the consultant's report which was originally posted on the unofficial web site.

The report was very detailed , critical and honest, but on a personal basis, I have to admit that if the consultant had offered the opinion that the restoration was a hopeless case, I would have ignored it.

I would, however have taken note of any professional advice relating to the execution of the restoration.

I absolutely agree that no further work should be carried out, on the organ and yet my spies tell me that, at this moment ranks of pipes are being lowered, and that there are plans to reinstate the two ranks of pipes which were removed from the organ sometime ago.This is being carried out with my money as well as others, and yet we are not allowed any say in the matter.

I wonder which Company is carrying out the work !

I wish that I could forsee the future, but of course I cannot.

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

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I assume that you have read the consultant's report which was originally posted on the unofficial web site.

The report was very detailed , critical and honest, but on a personal basis, I have to admit that if the consultant had offered the opinion that the restoration was a hopeless case, I would have ignored it.

I would, however have taken note of any professional advice relating to the execution of the restoration.

I absolutely agree that no further work should be carried out, on the organ and yet my spies tell me that, at this moment ranks of pipes are being lowered, and that there are plans to reinstate the two ranks of pipes which were removed from the organ sometime ago.This is being carried out with my money as well as others, and yet we are not allowed any say in the matter.

I wonder which Company is carrying out the work !

I wish that I could forsee the future, but of course I cannot.

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

Of course you are quite correct about the tendering process, and I have made my opinions known exactly to that effect when speaking with those in authority concerning the organ. I have given money myself in the past but will not do so again until the organ is put out to tender. Then I will. This is not to favour any builder or to denounce any builder either, but it is simply the way it should go, because people expect it to be so, and it is simply fair to all concerned. There is not anything biased about it, and I have also said that the consultant should be both independant, and unbiased. QED.   

I do not know very much of the political reasons why, so far, the organ restoration has not been put out to tender, and what I do know I am not going to repeat here, anymore than I would make it public knowledge. It causes damage. Such issues have to ironed out privately and things have to be seen to be positive. It is well high time that the whole organ issue had a crash meeting, and a decision was finally made, as it has gone on ridiculously long, and the constant arguing does nothing. The organ has become the political football which really is the most sad thing about it all, the whole long sorry saga. I have also to say that I think it not good to add further ranks to the organ, as it has reached the stage now that it should all come down, X builder be awarded the contract, and be done, fully, facade and all. The current frame is not the permanent one, and never was intended to be. What has happened is that there has been a real and well meant desire to get the job going within the constraints of a poor budget.

Let's make no mistake, it is the organ that is the price, and frankly I do not care who does it, as long as it IS done. It is so simple to achieve, and the money will come to do the lot, but there needs to be that tendering process, and here personal prefernces have no place. No single builder can be favoured, and there must be an independant consultant to that end. Finally, the recommendations of the consultant have to be heeded, or it will just never happen. The qualilty of the current voicing is beyond criticism. The rest, albeit as a temporory "lash up" will have convinced everyone that is should be finished.

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[Alexandra Palace Organ]

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I have often spoken to ex members of the Organ Appeal (and there are many), and I have asked them why they lost interest in the project. Their answer is equal to what Brian is saying, and their advice to me is to forget it and find another hobby.

There is no way that I will give up the idea of having the Willis Organ fully restored, until I know that it is hopeless.

There is absolutely no point in the Organ Appeal expecting to raise 1 million pounds, if they will not agree to a tendering process, and that is why our professional contacts withdrew. We know that the Appeal only favours one organ builder, and that builder might well win the contract, but there has to be a choice, otherwise the scheme is dead.

Also donors will insist on a guarantee that the organ is safe and will not be removed. That guarantee cannot be given until the new developers are appointed (probably in 2006). The Great Hall is listed, but not the organ as it is not a permanent fixture.

The organ is costing the Palace money it does not have, and whilst I increased concert attendances to 150 plus, the latest concerts are barely attracting 30 to 40 people. and people have complained to me about the condition of the organ and the programmes offered. After all my efforts this grieves me.

Potential donors will want proof that the organ will be used on a regular basis, and that concerts will attract large numbers of enthusiastic people.

The Trustees of the Palace own the organ and will have the final say as to the future. We can only advise.

It is easy to understand why people say that the restoration will never happen, but the reasons should be directed to the Organ Appeal who have provided the detractors with the ammunition,

In the meantime i am happily working with the Victorian Theatre.Perhaps we could start messages about that, especially as the theatre is safe and listed,

Colin Richell

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

I suggest that everyone carefully reads and digests the unofficial web site (alexandrapalaceorgan.com),also. No one would be foolish enough to publish information on the web site it it were not true, and one should be very careful before suggesting that only the official Appeal care about, and wish to see the Wilis organ fully restored.

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

 

 

I had hoped that my information about the aborted cd performed by Ian Tracey would have convinced detractors of the Willis organ scheme that we all worked tirelessly to attract supporters and funding, but alas, just another excuse to deride people who loyally served the organ appeal, but decided to move on to ventures new.

I and my colleagues continue to fight for the Willis organ, but away from the appeal, and Rofeensis is well aware of the reasons.

Ian's playing for the prposed CD was excellent, and it was tragic that the recording quality and condition of the organ was unsatisfacory for commercial purposes.

I hope that future postings will not be so counter productive, because believe me there are more detractors of the Willis Organ Appeal than supporters, and unhelpful comments will produce even more disinterest..

Please do not be so bitter, there is a little good in all of us,

Colin Richell.

[Alexandra Palace Organ]

I have many copies of the CD "Historic organs volum 1" which includes 7 tracks of the original Ally pally organ. I had been selling these cd.s at concerts and donating profits to the organ appeal, but I am no longer able to do this as I am not welcome at concerts.

I well remember several years ago, sitting in a very cold Great Hall whilst Ian Tracey played with the intention of producing a CD. Unfortunately no-one considered that the quality was good enough and the idea was shelved,

So we did try, but I do recall that there was also the problem of raising the money.

Thank you to those who freely offer their suggestions, but believe me we have tried everything.

Colin Richell.

[Barbican Hall]

I am not aware that English Heritage actually list organs unless of very old historical interest such as Adlington Hall or Rotherhithe. [unparliamentary language removed by moderator.] The building itself is listed. [Edited by moderator.]Personally, I feel very positive about the organ and its future [remainder of sentence deleted by moderator].

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[Edited by moderator] you may care to ask the person on the Appeal who you represent about my involvement in the Ally Pally organ ,you might be surprised [edited by moderator]. Better still read Alan Taylor's previous messages, read both web sites, and let us worry about the future of the organ. [Edited by moderator.]

Colin Richell.

[Barbican Hall]

Excuse me, but the constitution ("of the organ appeal"...?.... which?.....) allows no such thing. As you rightfully say, they don't own it. The building was put up as a peoples palace way back in 1873, and the basic functions and requirements of it, including the organ, remain the same. The organ cannot be removed, and such rumours are just plain unhelpful.  [Edited by moderator.]

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Of course the Ally Pally organ can be removed, it is not listed by English Heritage for that very reason.

 

I understand that a question about the future of the organ has been raised by a councillor and the answer will be provided at a full Council meeting later this month.

I am not tired of the subject and I and my colleagues fight on,

Watch this space !

Colin Richell.