MusingMuso
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Ah the wonderful memories of 1980s BBC television!
Those of us who were mere infants in those days might recall the children's series "Silas", a period drama based in the nineteenth century about a young boy who ran away from a circus. It was most famous for having originally been a German production, dubbed into English, and the English lines had a tendency to arrive at any time other than the moment the original words were mouthed.
At exactly 41 minutes into the final episode the eponymous hero, exploring the inside of a church, stumbles across the console of the very fine three manual organ on the rear gallery and tries to play it. Of course, there is no sound until a friendly priest appears and offers to show how he can make it work by drawing some stops and then he disappears off into the corner to furiously pump away on the bellows leaving Silas to play random notes on the organ. A dream come true you might think for the young lad.
Given the patchy success of the dubbing elsewhere, it's no surprise that the notes that come out of the organ are neither the same notes as those he is shown depressing on screen, nor are they even sounding at the same time as he is pressing them - indeed they sound distinctly like something a 1980s synthesiser might produce! And to this day I've never worked out how a circus boy manages, after a few random notes, to begin playing something approaching a melodic tune with chords.
Most importantly though, does anyone recognise the organ?
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Because his name is Patrick Bach, of course.
MM
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This thread has been silent for a while but is probably an ideal place to introduce myself and make a few noises about the very specific aspect of Compton's work with which I am familiar. I'm an electrical engineer and conservator of electrical technology, with a long-standing interest in the organ in both classical and theatrical guises. Perhaps inevitably, I have ended up spending an increasing fraction of my life inside Comptons, with and without soldering iron in hand. It is impossible to avoid drawing comparisons between Compton's electrics and other electrical equipment of his era, for example telephone apparatus and industrial switchgear. Even comparing a few details of Compton's actions with Hope Jones' also reveals a few chinks in the otherwise ingeniously-woven fabric of Compton electromechanical design. But I will save these observations for a later post.
On the subject of a history of the firm, MM suggests that details of the electronic side of the business are fairly well pinned down. As I am actively researching this it will be interesting to compare notes (which I fear we will find lacking in upper harmonics) although I suspect that I am going for a more trainspotterish level of detail than would be appropriate here. In case I should later be found out as a traitor to the cause of the pipe organ I will admit now that I have a large collection of these electrostatic contraptions, some of which sound every bit as dull as my playing, purely for historical and research purposes you understand.
Returning to the electric action of pipe organs, I would be most interested to hear opinions regarding the concept of Compton's patent luminous stop, one of the most visible (although inaudible) of his signature inventions. Ignore for now the foibles of its practical realisation e.g. the reliance on a relatively frail lamp, the ease with which the second touch can sometimes be engaged by accident, the erratic behaviour of incorrectly adjusted reversers. Is it a convenience or merely a gimmick? Is it evidence of MM's theory that invention at Acton sometimes ran ahead of necessity - a concern that Willis was quite vocal about in connection with action developments generally? I wonder about it during the long hours of reverser-adjusting and lamp-replacing!
Lucien
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I haven't had time to check, but I wonder if the Compton patent isn't actually later than the Estey patent in America?
Estey were certainly producing luminous stop consoles in the 1920's, and there is some suggestion that William Haskell may have been the originator of this, and other remarkable ideas.
Of course, as compared with the Estey lumionous "cash register" controls, the Compton equivalent is far more elegant.
I'm quite sure that further research will reveal quite a number of ideas and concepts which flowed back and forth across the Atlantic.
MM
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I could have placed this under the category of "You Tube," but the music of Dezso d'Antalffy-Zsiross is little known outside his native Hungary, so it qualifies as being on the margins. Little did I realise that this particular composer (who moved to America to become the theatre-organist of the Radio City Music Hall, playing the largely "straight" Wurlitzer organ), studied with Karl Straube and Max Reger,as did English theatre-organist Quentin Maclean. He also studied with Enrico Bossi, unlike MacLean. He was also a teacher at the Feranc Liszt Academy in Budapest.
I'm not quite sure what the significance of the artist Arnold Böcklin is, but clearly, his art was considered important enough to inspire.
Xaver Varnus is no stranger to us on the discussion board, but what fascinates me about him, is his almost unique approach to anything he plays, which with the greatest stretch of imagination, could never be considered predictable. His Bach, for instance varies between the downright showy and dramatic, to the positively scholarly and meticulous. (The various You Tube videos demonstrate this very well). In addition, Xaver Varnus also crosses musical boundaries, which are often a source of great delight.
So here is the interesting "THE ISLAND OF THE DEAD" from the pen of Dezso d'Antalffy-Zsiross; magnificently played by Xaver Varnus on the equally magnificent organ of the Palace of the Arts, Budapest.
MM
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It's amazing, the diverse things one can learn on this forum.
Do we know where this group is gathered MM? For example, on the ground we can have a "Gaggle" of geese, whereas in flight they become a "Skein."
In a similar vein might we have a "Bench" of organists (playing) or, gathered somewhere else, dare I suggest a "Bar" of organists?
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I've always used the word gaggle to describe clergy gatherings. Am I alone?
MM
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Remembering one I knew many years ago whose personal hygiene was not always up to scratch (ha!), a Rank of organists maybe...
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I don't think it's allowed to have a rank of pipes AND a rank of organists. Similarly, the words bench and bar act as collective nouns, (perhaps obtusely) within the legal profession.
If an organist lacks personal hygeine, they are unlikely to be part of a group, but in the event that like minds gather to smell roses, I suppose one could have a "whiffle" of organists, or even a "mold" of organists if they play in theatre-pits or in damp surroundings.
I don't think we could have the word grind, because that is too close to organ-grinders and barrel-organs and may confuse.
No, I think we need to explore the intellectual depths a little.
What about a fugue of organists? Maybe a loft of organists?
Organ-builders are much more difficult to cater for; it's such a diverse craft. Perhaps a gallery, chest or case of organ-builders?
MM
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A combination of organists seems straightforward enough for starters.
A voicing of organ-builders.
Paul
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I like the combination of organists, which is less easily misunderstood than, say, a registration of organists.
For organ-builders, I quite like a kist of organ-builders, or perhaps even a swell of organ-builders.
MM
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Collective nouns are unique to the English language, and often a source of great delight.
I think it's about time we had a suitable one for organists; whether serious or humorous.
We can't have a Mutation of Organists, because that collective noun applies to Thrushes.
We can't even have a Quiver of Theatre Organists, because Arrows claim that particular collective noun.
We can't use the word Thunder, because that applies to Hippos.
I have a few ideas, but in the meantime, can anyone porpose collective nouns for organists or even organ-related things?
MM
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Great stuff! I've been thinking (for a change), might this be the Compton that the late Ted Crampton had a hand in getting up and running again? Sorry, should not have used the word running as I did not detect any.
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I'm not sure about that, but I do know that the organ is that which is now in the home of David Shepherd, which I believe is a kit of various Compton parts.
I've never seen it....but there is a good reason why not.
MM
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Mentioning Richard Hills, here's an absolute delight, as he takes to the piano, with the excellent Simon Gledhill playing a privately owned theatre organ somewhere in deepest Lincolnshire.
Richard is nothing of not versatile.
MM
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I was lucky in that none of my "firsts" were terribly big occasions and as such I cant really remember them in great detail. What I can remember is the first time I played publicly. I was about 13/14 and played 1 hymn (Ye choirs of new Jerusalem) at a Sunday evening service during the summer when there was no choir. It was a not so illustrious start to a not so illustrious career on the bench. Of course I was too young to be nervous - nerves appeared in my late teens and didn't really last too long.
Of course over the years I have had made all the cock ups - extra verse missed over the page, playing the wrong hymn, playing the gradual hymn when its supposed to be the psalm, and most memorably playing a hymn in the wrong key (I was either a flat over or under - cant remember now), it was excruciatingly embarrassing at the time!!
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At one church, I trained the choir to take their lead from a tonic note when singing unaccompanied.
OK....I admit.....it was not a good idea to give a 'g' for the opening hymn at the service of nine, lessons and carols.
How that boy got through that first verse of "Once in Royal", I will never know.
How the choir anticipated G major for the second-verse, I cannot begin to imagine.
MM
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Hi
The singing stopping usually gives the game away!
Every Blessing
Tony
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Oh come on!
It's just a question of being observant; words or no words.
If people are about to sing another verse, their shoulders rise, their mouths assume a figure 'O' (like this
) as they suck in breath, they look at the words, they hold their books at reading length/height and stand still by and large.If they are about to finish, the converse occurs. Their shoulders fall, their mouths assume a closed position (like this
), they stop looking at the words, they start gazing around, they close the hymn book and they start to fidget.A word of warning however.
People watching in church is fine, but avoid staring at:-
a) the very wealthy
b ) young nubile ladies
c) boy choristers
d) the clergy (they have a habit of miming or being inattentive during hymns)
e) handsome servers
f) anyone carrying a white stick or with a labrador by their feet
g) very old people, who may be about to cough or spit-out a humbug
Restrict all gazes to no more than three seconds, and never gaze at the same person twice, even if your intentions are honourable.
If you do find yourself introducing a phantom verse, press piston eight as you conclude with a full-cadence, shouting, "Praise the lord!"
They will understand.
MM
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At last, a decent recording of the magnificant Rieger-Kloss organ of St James', Prague, with lots of pretty pictures of various instruments in Europe.
The organist is Irena Chřibková, obviously playing Toccatas and things.
My type of organ.
MM
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They did put in pneumatic action on the pedal a while ago, but it didn't last. I believe that the whole action was replaced during the 1959 -1961 Marcussen "restoration" with a balanced action. And very nice it feels, with no "clanking" at all.
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I didn't actually know that pneumatic-action was used for the pedal organ, so I've learned something. It just seems to have been there all my life, with bits of re-voicing here and there.
As David suggests, the present balanced-action is that installed by Marcussen, and it does feel good in spite of the length of the runs.
MM
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Lo! my son! What you need is electric action and pitman chests.....
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Exactly what I said to Piet Kee at Haarlem.
How they've put up with 300 years of clanking old action, I do not know.
MM
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He has a wonderful way with words, both written and in the flesh, as it were, and I am very grateful indeed to Carlo for lending his support and praise to the album. For a long-standing professional and Internationally respected artist such as he to comment as he has done is, I feel, a great plug for the CD. I'm sure that those of you who purchase the CD or the HD downloads when they become available, will be just as pleased. Richard Hills has excelled himself on this recording and really shows what can be achieved with an organ that contains a fair amount of careful extension and with a large theatre organ. His orchestral transcriptions are superb and his classical performances inspiring, not to mention the lush theatrical registrations, impeccable rhythm playing and sheer excitement of this combination of great artist and great instrument. It was a joy to work with Richard on it, and to record this wonderful instrument that is now in so much better condition than it was.
Peter
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I think he likes to hear himself write.
Precogitations of mellifluous prose;
cause many a man their eyes to close.
Ten words, not one; the descriptive purple;
best cut by nine, for fear of urple.
MM
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Dear All
Today the eagerly awaited CD of Richard Hills at the Southampton Guildhall Compton is released. This marks the 75th anniversary of the opening of the Guildhall, on 13th Feb 1937.
The title of the album is Grand Variety
International organ star Carlo Curley has very kindly undertaken the official review and has provided a glowing report of the new album.
More information, including how to purchase the CD and Carlo's review, can be found here:
www.ssfweb.co.uk/silverst/html/grand_variety.html
Thanks for your interest
Peter
(Producer)
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Carlo does go on a bit doesn't he? Bless him!
I 'm glad that I originally said much the same thing using considerably less words.
MM
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I thought Mendelssohn wrote 'War March of the Priests' or have I missed something!
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No mate, definitely 'andel.
Better than Mendelssohn's "Zadok the priest" anyday.
MM
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It failed to catch on in churches because by the time it came out, Dearmer had become so ecumenical that the theology of the book was super-light in order not to offend anyone. It was also rather gung-ho - muscular Christianity and all that. In schools, however, it was a tremendous success and was the standard work throughout the country.
I only once saw a copy of the original (unenlarged) SofP, next to the harmonium at Saxtead Church in Suffolk over 40 years ago. I was in the church again last summer - the Songs of Praise had gone, but they had got themselves a proper organ!
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Eureka!
That's what we need....a bit of gung-ho Christianity accompanied by a bit of gung-ho organ-playing.
If it gets rid of "Shine Jesus shine," bring Songs of Praise back yesterday.
MM
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We've got the organ in bits at Holy Joe's, Keighley; or at least some of it.
Since God was a boy, there's been a bit of a problem with drawing the Pedal Bourdon, which has always been very stiff.
Last year, the diagnosis of a rapidly failng Pedal Bourdon seemed to centre around slider-seals, and the possibility that some had come unstuck and moved about a bit.
Following the application of a little logic, it eventually became apparent that the problem was not just one of slider-seals, for by inching the stop in and out, certain pipes came back on speech while others fell almost silent.
There is undoubtedly a slider-seal problem, because there is an element of leakage with various wind hisses to be heard without stops drawn, but it seems that the greater problem is that of the stop-linkage. Being "werkprinzip" in style, the pedal organ is divided, and it seems that there is lost motion in the transfer of movement from left to right, resulting in the slides being out-of-sync. As the stop action converts to about half an inch of twisting motion applied to a vertical metal rod, it follows that there must be an element of "gearing-up" at the slides, and I'd like to bet that there is a problem at the fulcrum of the C# slider operating lever.
It demonstrates, I think, how the diagnosis of a problem may appear to be one thing, and then turn out to be something quite different.
Hopefully, all will be well within a week or two, with the fitting of new seals and whatever needs to be done to the stop mechanism.
'Til than, it's all Stanley and Walond I'm afraid.
MM
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Hello all
I was thinking the other day about the first service I played at and it was a total nightmare. I was asked to play for a first holy communion service and the church I played at did not have an Organ. Instead it had one of these Viscount Cantorum keyboard electric jobs ( you may know where this is going). The keys were similar to those you would find on a child's Keyboard and were very unresponsive. It was an absolute nightmare my fingers were slipping everywhere, it felt like I applied copius amounts of butter to my hands before I set off playing, eventually I just had to stop as I could not take anymore of this instrument ( if you can call it one). The most awkward thing about it was that I was positioned slap bang right at the side of the altar in front of the entire congregation! Yes public humiliation at its finest, naturally people thought it was my playing which of course it was not. A craftsman never blames his tools.......unless you play one of those!
I was wondering if anyone else had any similar musical nightmares. Or is it just me?
Liam
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I find that I am able to respond to Liam's latest post with a hint of relish, because he opened up an almost forgotten memory. I was 14 and the organ was about 84 years of age, never having been touched. (The organ that is!)
Bearing in mind that I was, at this point, a self-taught beginner, the fact that I was hurriedly called in to replace an elderly organist who had suddenly died, meant that I was thrown in at the deep-end. To make matters worse, this particular service was a confirmation, at which a number of local choirs were to sing. So not only was I faced with a big service, a strange organ and massed choirs, I somehow had to provide voluntaries. Remembering this, I find myself smiling, because I do recall playing Handel's "War march of the priests" as an entrance. (The Bishop of Bradford commented about it afterwards).
The organ was a nightmare, having been built by Hughes of Bradford. It had very powerful reeds, with every possible sub and octave couplers, but using too many at the same time resulted in the whoie organ vibrating violently and sounding out of tune. I've never quite come across a similar phenomenon, and it took a little time to adjust to what did and didn't work properly.
Fortunately, the hymns went well and the anthem, being unaccompanied, didn't present a problem. Imagine my delight when I was given £10, at a time when a packet of fags cost 2s 6p. (About 13p in to-day's money).
On the strength of this triumph, I was appointed Organist & Choirmaster by the Church Council in the absence of a vicar during the interegnum. My next ordeal was to play for the induction of the new vicar, who turned out to be a bit odd-ball; he being the "Witchfinder General" for the Diocese of York prior to his induction, and who was known for having an interesting line in exorcisms. His wife was an ARCO, and it served the new vicar's purposes handsomely that almost his first task was to sack me and install his wife at the console; immediately doubling an already generous stipend.
In some ways, he did me a favour, for within a very short time, I was appointed as O & C at the senior parish church in the local deanery, with a fine, recently re-built organ and an awful lot of weddings to play for. I must have been the wealthiest kid in school at that time, with an average of 3 to 4 weddings every Saturday in Spring/Summer. (That's like a 15 year old earning £180 per week to-day, plus the usual church stipend).
When the "Witchfinder General" suddenly died of a heart-attack, I rather churlishly declined the invitation to play the organ for his funeral. If I'd been capable of playing Lemare's transcription of "Danse Macabre" I would certainly have re-considered my position.
If nothing else, my earliest memories as an organist served to warn me of church politics and double-dealing.
MM
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Yes songs of praise is a fine hymnal as is the New English and we use them for the traditional hymns instead of playing the inaccurate HO & N versions. You will be pleased to know that not all of the "Yuff of- today" worship that garbage being 21 myself I love hearing and playing good old tradtional hymns. I find the problem lies within the schools, they insist on teaching children this rubbish so they go on to think that it is perfectly acceptable material.Getting slightly off topic one of the reasons why I never formally studied music when I attended School was that the syllabus seemed to focus more around music of different cultures. Now I believe it is imperative that we should embrace music from different cultures but perhaps they should look at teaching them music of our OWN culture before we look at anybody elses. Getting back to the point ( I do apologise for that rant) I often find that the congregation at our place belt out the traditional stuff yet when the contemporary stuff is requested you hardly hear a whimper.
Liam
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Haven't organists been doing that for centuries?
In more recent times, I can think of Indian influences on Messaien, Arabic influences on Petr Eben, Japanese influences in certain American organ works and all manner of other "foreign" influences. It's not so long ago that I suggested that Japanese melody could combine with impressionistic French modality to great effect.
We are prophets and pioneers without realising it.
I'm not in the least surprised that no one sings the folk music. The youth of to-day would be totally turned off by it....they have their own garbage.
Music can be so depressing.
I played a bit of Whitney Houston to a local kid to-day, and he gave the blankest of looks and said, "Does she have to sing so loud?"
He went on his way attempting to make up some 'Gangsta Rap' words, but got stuck with a suitable rhyming word to 'situation.'
We are doomed!
MM
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Good to hear that, we had a similar experience to that as well. We seem to have a mix at our place although its not exactly a 'healthy' balance between tradtional and contemporary the problem is we have one priest looking after two churches and the 'folk group' at the other church pick our hymns ( personally I think this is completely wrong) but it looks like it will never change in the near future. I was given by someone an unwanted copy of Songs of Praise The Enlarged Edtion edited partly by Vaughan Williams, mine is the twelth impression so it was printed around the 1950's and it is a fabulous book a real treasure trove of Tradtional worship music. I just wish there was more people who actually cared about the choice of music in churches today.
Liam
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I'd like to see a "folk group" tell me what I had to play! (At this point, I tried to find the "angry" Gif....not available) (Insert your own Gif, consisting of a little face with a dagger in its mouth
)I think I shall start a new movement, which seeks to banish any music older than ten years, so as to appeal to the yuff of to-day.
To me, there is nothing worse than the bleeding heart piety of religious "folk music," usually sung and strummed by hippies of a certain age; all wearing wool in some deathly earth-colour, flat shoes and no make-up.
Amusingly, someone once asked me if I could possibly write a worship song. In the time it took for a modest sermon, I had written the words, sketched out a really catchy tune and could improvise the rest after morning mass. The person who asked was beside themselves with joy, but I can say with absolute certainty, that it was total garbage from beginning to end; both musically and theologically. The sad thing is, I knew they would love it.
I'm afraid I have little time for religion which wallows in mawkish sentimentality, milk and honey....opium is apparently far more effective, though a little expensive.
I find myself agreeing with Liam, because "Songs of Praise" is a fine tome, yet it never truly caught on as it should have done.
MM
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"In fact, coming to think of it, I busk most things these days."
A wonderful comment; what I particularly like about it is that many illustrious names from history would nod in agreement - old Bach, Mozart*, pretty much any French organist/composer you care to mention etc ...
Raul Prieto Ramirez, one of the best players around, had no formal early education in music; he just busked from a very early age; and studied formally much later. It's done him no harm at all of course.
One of my friends (not a musician) asked me what instrument I'd recommend his son to learn; I answered 'anything where he can just sit down and play when he feels like it, not needing other musicians to play with, not needing a score, just let his fingers follow where his mind wonders'. We agreed either guitar or piano (probably a dabble at both); having seen so many ex-orchestral players who never pick their instruments up any more and get no pleasure out of the time they invested learning to play, I'm convinced it's the best way.
SC
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And I thought I was all alone!
Before my reputation, (or lack of it), plunges to the depths, I did eventually get around to taking music seriously and studying properly; if only in my own peculiar way. I would suggest however, that I'm 90% self-taught.
This raises an interesting question about music-education, to which I have alluded previously.
If music isn't about enjoyment, self-expression and creativity, then it is a waste of time and effort. If one thing struck home when I researched and wrote about Hungarian organists, organs and organ-music, it was the fabulous quality and artistic integrity of so many organists. They really are a force to be reckoned with, yet they are either paid nothing or paid peanuts in the churches.
Doesn't this demonstrate a certain passionate enthusiasm in what they are doing?
I wonder if the "Kodaly method" isn't somehow at the heart of this, but as I'm not an educator or a specialist, perhaps others may wish to comment.
I can only speak for my own experience, in that I loved to play at playing when I was young, and although I embraced more rigorous and formal discipline at a later date, the initial enthusiasm has never left me.
Incidentally, when I wrote "busking," I think I should really have said re-arranging and re-harmonisation, because I DO read the notes and then promptly ignore them if I feel that they are badly written. Of course, this is only possible without a choir, and I can sympathise with those who have to re-write everything for choral use, as a way of bettering the quality. It's a dreaful state of affairs.
MM
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I was wondering how long it would take before someone mentioned HO & N. I'm ashamed to say I have to put up with it every week, there are some very unusual arrangements in that book. One of the worst being a one called Eagle's Wings ( cannot stand it) it the only hymn i've seen that starts on a leading note. I do have a copy of the New English Hymnal and use instead of the HO & N if the hymns needed are in it. I've noticed that many of the hymns in HO & N do not appear to have authors, I can understand why as I wouldn't put my name on some of the music in it! But getting back to the main point yes it is quite heavy, if you had a few copies they would make the perfect height adjustment accessory for any Organ Bench!
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Our priest regularly has "ethnic moments," so we have to sing a hymn to the tune of "O Danny boy," which of course commences on the leading note.
As I haven't the music, I just busk it. In fact, coming to think of it, I busk most things these days. Unhindered by a choir, (what a terrible admission), I am able to busk on the fly, which may sound like a village on the Welsh Borders, but which is absolutely necessary in order to correct the utterly iliterate harmonisations contained in the hymn book.
I would love to meet the "musicians" responsible for these master-works, and then give them a good, hard slap.
Do they have any musical education at all, I wonder?
It isn't just hymn books, because the same problem actually pervades the entire liturgical "settings" of the parish mass, which in most examples, wouldn't even have got a pass in GCSE (GCE?) O-level music.
It's a sorry state of affairs when even pop music is better written and better harmonised, but in many instances it is.
Now, "when I were a lad," I cannot recall a single flaw or a bad harmonisation in several hymn-books with which I came into contact. Ancient & Modern, The English Hymnal, the Methodist Hymn Book, Songs of Praise....all of them were superbly well crafted, irrespective of whether the tunes were good, bad or indifferent.
I hesitate to name and shame any particular publishers, but be it sufficient to say that in order to throw rocks, it may first be necessary to hew them.
MM
PS: Perhaps hymn books make better missiles than rocks.
) as they suck in breath, they look at the words, they hold their books at reading length/height and stand still by and large.
), they stop looking at the words, they start gazing around, they close the hymn book and they start to fidget.
Off the beaten track
in The Organ
Posted
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For my sins, I studied Fine Art as an ancillary subject, but my limited knowledge obviously unembraces Boecklin.
Apart from the fact that the island is an ecological impossibility, the technique is formidable.....just look at that water and the reflections therein;not the mention the colouring and shading of the cliffs.
I haven't a clue what it is all about beyond that, but it obviously has some significance.
I had no idea that the Swiss ever did anything beyond inventing the cuckoo-clock and making goat's cheese.
MM