Richard McVeigh
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Posts posted by Richard McVeigh
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Then take a building like York Minster, which has a garage acoustic. The sound flies everywhere, and returns in its own good time from far-flung regions. Much of the choral sound swirls around the choir, and can barely be heard in the nave. The organ, sitting on the screen (and elsewhere), has to somehow fulfil the task of both choir and congregational accompaniment instrument, but not with any great success even now.
Much of the sound goes into the very wide and high central tower, some of the sound projects east and some of the sound (including the big Tuba) is projected west. Rather like the old RC priest with his holy-water, everybody gets a bit, but it is like being rained upon from all directions at the same time.
The transept position at Chester is wonderful for organ-recitals and congregational hymns, but the choir can easily become dwarfed by the sound of the instrument, and the distances involved present problems of cohesion and balance.
MM
This organ in York Minster is very much voiced for the Quire, and as far as accompaniments go for services held in the Quire (about 95% I'd say) I don't think I would be wrong to say that there is nothing quite like it; it does it's job extremely well! The problem comes when services are in the Nave; the Choir division renders useless, the Solo Tuba and Bombarde can hardly be heard, and the acoustic is so big that leading a big congregation becomes very difficult.
You hit the nail right on the head with Chester though. It is such a loud instrument, that it is extremely difficult to accompany the Choir (in the Quire) without drowning them out! But like you say, its great for recitals.
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First thing I do is sit down at a piano and mark up all 'un-natural' fingering. The urtext editions of Bach has very un-natural note distrubution between the staves, so I mark out exactly which notes I am to play with which hand. I find learning a piece in sections the best way for me, starting at the end and working backwards. If its a particulary hard bit I'll play it oooh so slow, like crotchet = semiquaver, that gives me chance to actually think about what I am playing, but still keeping it very rhythmical is essential. Another idea is to play different rhythms, eg a string of semiquavers dotted (IE dotted semiquaver, demisemiquaver etc).
Marking the score is the most helpful thing to me, but I try not to over-mark it, if there are some old markings I made a while ago which I don't need anymore I'll rub them out. More markings = more to think about, and you'll often ignore them if there are too many.
Photocopying awkward page turns is also a great idea.
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For this to work, can I ask that people post only once so things don't get side tracked!!
Thank you all replying! Very interesting reading! But I did ask if you post once so we can easily see whos who. If you want to ask someone a question could you send them a Private Message or start another thread?
Thank you.
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I think it would be interesting for all the forum users to post in this thread. Rather than just being able to see 'screen names', we should all post our name and what we do... I've often wondered the background of some of the board's posters! For this to work, can I ask that people post only once so things don't get side tracked!! Maybe if this is made into a sticky? I'll start...
Richard McVeigh
Started playing piano when I was 7 or 8 after joining the choir at Chesterfield's 'Crooked Spire', where I learned the organ at 14 with their assistant organist, Ian Brackenbury. Spent three years at Hull University (for my sins!), during which time I was senior organ scholar at Beverley Minster for two of the three years. Since starting uni in 2002, I have had lessons from John S Whiteley at York. Graduated from Hull in the summer of 2005 then became organ scholar at Chester Cathedral for one year, and am now at York Minster as organ scholar for one or two years.
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I think that the best psalm players favour continuos accomp. Ths story of MA using the cymbelstern is amusing. A bit unsure whether the jingling bells are an asset or not. York seems to have one now tho its not listed in the NPOR spec. JSW uses it in the Jesus College service by Mathias.
Are you sure York has a Cymbelstern??!!
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I don't think people need a registrant. However, I do think that a lot of players of the "modern age", myself included, struggle to make the most of an instrument's colour without a usable piston system, especially on larger instruments.
Us organists here in Chester are spoilt! As well as having 30-odd channels (I forget how many there are as I only(!!) use 20-25) we have 500 sequencer steps, 11 divisionals on EACH manual as well as an A, B and a C button on each manual. I'm eventually getting to your point about colourfull registrations...The ABC buttons are ace for word painting in the psalms! For example I have:
SW A - strings + octave,
SW B - 2' + octave
SW C - Contra Fagotto 16' with Oboe 8'
I know what its like when you said about your Clarion, our pedal Trombone stop went through a phase of not cancelling! The clergy probably thought we were blowing rasberries at them!!
P.s. I have not read the whole of the thread because most of them end up talking about wind pressures – but that’s a personal thing!Not really my cup of tea either, I just play the thing!
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Might as well have a rant…
Being one of the board's organ scholars(!) and having read the thread, it is nonsense that the 'organ scholars of the modern age' need a registrant. Having just returned from a singing tour at Ripon Cathedral and played their beautiful Harrison & Harrison for 5 services, I can certainetly vouch that a registrant is NOT necessarily! At Ripon the visiting organist is allocated only 1 channel for generals and divisionals, and seeing as though in each evensong there are psalms, canticles and an anthem to accompany as well as a voluntary this was nigh impossible and very irritating actually!
Clearly every organ is different, in Chester there are 14 generals on each of the 30-odd channels, 8 of which can be accessed via toe-pistons, whereas in Ripon there are only 8 generals which are only placed at the top of the manuals under the music desk. In Chester it wouldn’t be impossible to register an entire piece just using the toe-pistons, yet on organs like Ripon it was sometimes impossible to press generals without missing out notes!
My music copies are often covered in markings indicating what to press, such as ‘ch 3’ or ‘sw 7’, I try to always prepare the registrations before-hand; I hate playing and having not practiced my registrations!
Personally I am much more comfortable in the organ loft by myself, and any organist who plays for services day in and out will be used to playing without a page-turner and registrant. By leaving all the stop changes to muggings here (me) I know that I can half trust myself and therefore not have the worry have nodding or shouting when I want the button pressed! As for page turns, there are usually only one or two tricky page turns when accompanying, and this can be got around by the simple means of a photocopier! But then again, I have had to call for a page turner when playing pieces such as the Howells St. Paul’s and Purcell’s My Beloved Spake (very long and busy!), but the page turner didn’t go near my buttons!
So back to the original topic, registrants! I think this ‘wunderkind son’ that was mentioned needs to adopt a new registering technique. Suggesting that he cannot manage a set of canticles without a registrant is ridiculous. If the music was Kelly in C on a tracker with no buttons then yes use an registrant, but otherwise surely not! How on earth would one manage when the time comes when no assistant is available on an unfamiliar organ. When one of our visiting recitalists pulled out of one of our Thursday afternoon series, Philip Rushforth stepped in at a morning’s notice and hand registered an entire programme of music on the spot with no preparation time whatsoever. This amazing skill comes with practice, and not by using the sequencer throughout or by using a registrant.
Phew, got all that off my chest. My point is that a ‘serious’ organist should not depend on a sequencer and YES it is a filthy habit! And anyway, how much more satisfying is it when you have total control over an instrument (something I am still working on!!) rather than having someone pressing general 4 a beat late!
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London premiere of the Symphony DB wrote for me in 2004.
The one you played here in Chester? Missa pro defunctis? I liked it so much I ordered your CD from Blackburn with it on!
after asking why they released the last chord as a descending arpeggio - answer, because the bass notes die away faster than the trebles, and that way the chord seems to die away as one.Am I the only to find that method tacky?
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... Lichfield is another example, and Chester should be...
Chester isnt' all that bad actually, I think David and his team are gradually bringing the pitch of the instrument down with every tuning session.
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FABULOUS
BRAVO, RICHARD!
Wonderful tempo. If you young people get any better, I'm going to have to start taking your pieces out of my repertoire.
Once again, congratulations on the really beautiful work.
Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY
Thank you! Why you going to stop playing pieces that play? A good thing about working at a cathedral where there is much to play, the repertoire is quite fast so you get used to having to learn things quickly, whether it be organ pieces or the liturgy - the joys of Kelly in C tomorrow!!
That tempo is absolutely fine - well done! [What's this about not being a virtuoso?]I dislike Dupre's own performance as recorded - much too fast, gabbled in fact. Carlo's interpretation is electrifying, mind you he has been playing it publicly and professionally virtually every week for the last twenty years. Full credit to him because he still brings it off as fresh.
The Prelude IMHO is much harder than the fugue, critically because of those pedal chords. I rarely get all of them clean when the chips are down, but I still love the piece and hope that (as occasionally happens) that extra bit of Adrenalin to the brain and a comfortable pedalboard will make the difference when performance day comes. I wear size 11s and it is some while since I had shoes that really offer sufficient heel for this piece and the Thalben-Ball Variations. They're the only things in the whole repertoire where a built-up heel is a critical factor, I think.
Must be the university chapel organ eh!!
how are things in Hull by the way, Philip went over to do a recital in the City Hall a few months back did you manage to hear that? Are things looking up at Holy Trinity - I'll never forget playing the last variation of the Noel (again Dupre) there and during the tocatta having to completely ignore what I was hearing from the organ, I'm sure I was playing half a beat ahead of what I was hearing! I can imagine that organ being a masterpiece when it was in its prime can't you?I miss Beverley...
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well heres me having a bash at it for a voluntary after evensong last week here in chester (appologies for background nice - it was live!)
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Let's get this straight: anyone who can play anything by Dupré of Duruflé is a virtuoso in my books!
nah, thats not true! I played the Veni Creator choral variations during a service the other week (choral, plainsong, theme, plainsong etc) and they're not that bad at all really to play. And actually I think the Dupre G minor is a lot easier than it looks; having performed it at the cathedral with just 2 weeks practise and I'm faaaaaar from being a virtuoso!!
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We had a very well known organist here recently who arrived just an hour and a half before the recital, and because the daily Communion was taking place, he only had about 40 minutes to practise before the recital - silently!!
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Roger Fisher treated us to a powerful rendition of the Reubke.
He played myself and a few others the recording of this which someone had done at the recital at his earlier today and it sounds thrilling. I think he'll always be known for his performance of the Reubke which he did at Chester in the 70's(?), he said he really enjoyed playing the instrument and was very keen on it, he liked the way the mixtures are right aobve the console which apparently was very exciting!
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Somewhere I have (or at least have heard) a recording of Dupré playing it really fast (and quite accurately) - it might have been at the Queen's Hall.
I do not play the G minor; however I do play the B major and prefer this to be quite fast - the fugue is almost easier faster.
do you mean this recording of it? http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/clipse...7824726-7499944 I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with that performance? I think 112 is far too fast and just sounds a mess, but a speed like 92 brings much more clarity where you can hear every note! Why do I seem to be the only person to find the fugue harder than the prelude?! Now the B major is still beyond me, especially that fugue subject!!
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His Prelude and Fugue in G minor, what speed do you take the prelude at? I try to take it at a very modest 92; 112 makes a mockery out of my fingers!!! Philip Rushforth tells me hes only ever heard one person try to do it at the marked speed on a CD but gets slower and becomes unclean for the last 3 pages. Colin Walsh came to do a recital here a few months back and he said he doesn't play it as it is too hard (if he can't do it then theres no hope for me to get it to 112)
I can't think of a more rewarding piece to play though.
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Nice of you to share your accompanimental skills with us, Richard
Bit sad about the Zadok. I am wondering whether he turned two pages over by mistake at the beginning of the final movement or it fell off the music rest or something. I thought the choir was very gallant picking up the pieces. To be able sing one page whilst the organist plays another is quite a skill.
Mit Mir: Have you never heard of the authentic ornamental style of the Swiss mountain region?
Strange plagal cadence: its Humphrey Clucas, or Cage, uncaged.
I too thought the choir did well to keep going, I would love to know where it was from! The bit at 2:50 is amazing!! Has anyone got anymore things like this????
Rich
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Here are a couple of funny sound clips i have got hold of, hope you find them as amusing as I do!!
Clip of an attempt of Zadok:
Clip of a brand new ornament which I never heard before:
A very strange Plagal Cadence:
Presentor on Radio 3 before and after Choral Evensong (Peterborough 29-03-06)
If anyone got anymore then please share! Email them to me, I find these sorts of things hilarious!
RM
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Try Book XV of the Novello Bach Organ Works. I don't us it to play from these days - I'm a fully paid up Breitkopf fan - but it is indispensable containing as it does an indication of the season it was written for, a harmonisation of the Choral and translation of the first verse (usually Catherine Winkworth). One caveat however, like the anglican church, some Chorals often doubled up as tunes for two or more texts (eg BWV 601 which has two titles) and only one text is included. You only get the translation of the first verse too - so chorale preludes with more than one verse still leave the other verses up for conjecture. Hope that this helps.
Charles
I'm too a Breitkopf fan! I prefer the layout to the Barenreiter edition, and some accidentals in the Barenreiter are just plain wierd. I only have one Novello book (book 8) as for my first lesson with John Scott Whiteley I played the 'Little' fugue in G minor from Novello and he said he didn't want me to use Novello ever again, and now I would never turn back from Breitkopf (even if their covers and bindings are useless!!).
Thanks for the tips though, my colleagues here at Chester will certainatly have Book XV and maybe even the other book that was mentioned. There must be a website somewhere though...
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Does anyone have or know where i can get a list of the seasons in which each individual Choral Prelude is written for?? I'm fed up not knowing which season to play some of them in!! It would help if the Choral titles were in German too.
Ta
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PM me the link to your website would you? ta
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I have just been to the last concert in the Beverley Minster summer series, and what a marvelous one it was too. Alan Spedding really "pulled all the stops out" (well, nearly all) How nice it was to hear a well put together programe of english, french and german music and played to Alans usual high standard. May I take this opportunity to recomend James Lancelots recital at Beverley on 15th october, to include (so mr.Spedding told me) Viernes fifth.
And the reason for the "mistakes" during Francis Jacksons recital at York the other day, was because his shoe came of during the F Major pedal solo,( as told by Francis to my friend David Rogers from sunny Donny ( doncaster
) Peter
Glad to hear you enjoyed Dr Spedding's recital, what did he play? I worked with him for 3 years and he is such a great man. As for him pulling out all the stops, that suprises me because he was not the 'loudest' player; when one of my predecessors at the minster used the great Posaune during a hymn, Alan ran upstairs and pushed it in!!
The monthly recitals in Beverley do really well, it is defenately worth anyone going along to them to hear the glorious organ and the amazing acoustics. I'll never forget my time there
As for Dr Jackson's shoe falling off... if he uses Organmaster Shoes then it wouldn't suprise me as I have had my new pair for nearly 2 years and the laces on both shoes have snapped!!!
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Yes, they are good pictures.
However, without wishing to spoil your fun, I feel that I should sound a note of caution. The first picture is clearly copyright (Robert Strafford). I presume you have obtained his permission to use the photograph? Cropping the picture is not enough, incidentally - it would still be recognisable by the photographer!
I mention this because DB has, on his website, used one of my pictures (a close-up of the C-C console of Ste. Sulpice, Paris). Whilst in a way this is a compliment, I am also slightly annoyed since he did not either ask my permission to use the photograph or credit me with taking and supplying the picture. Mind you, since he has been most generous in many other ways, I would not think of complaining....*
Just a small point, but, in the light of Mr. Mander's comments re- preoposed sound files breaking PRS laws, I thought that it was worth mentioning.
I assume, of course, that all other photographs were taken by you? They certainly look digital, as opposed to scanned.
* The fact that I am patently obviously complaining via this discussion board does, of course, not count....
The first picture you mention is neither cropped nor scanned, it was found it on Yahoo Images and I linked it to a discussion forum. Yes the other pictures are taken by myself, do you doubt that? I think the fact that I feature in some of the pictures, some are taken from the organ loft and some are taken when the building was closed suggests that perhaps they were infact taken by myself. Some of them were even taken on my camera phone (the 2nd and 3rd pictures).
I hope that has put the fun back into the pictures!
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My two cents, eh, Shillings: this is a splendid example of
british humor!
As for the car:
http://www.richardmcveigh.co.uk/images/GTi2.jpg
Believe me, after 20 years of company cars the like of Mercedes
or options-laden Passats, I'd go for that one instead! at least
a bit of fun. Imprezas are gas-guzzlers.
As for the ladies:
Well, instead of criticizing, I'd rather ask Richard to present
me to these very interesting company!
Pierre
Thank you for that! The little metro is very cheap, nippy and as you say - fun! Unfortunately I won't be seeing the majority of those ladies again, well not for a while, as it is so easy to come out of contact with people from school/uni/work after you leave. We had a very close friendship group at uni and we were all sad when we had to leave; people in the pictures on my website are all from that group. But you would have been more than welcome to meet the interesting company! The thing that makes me most happy in life is being around friends and it completely bewilders me how 'muchingmuch' (or what ever his name is) can say i was giving off the wrong impression.
Thanks for all the other feedback though, what else could I add to the page?
how are things in Hull by the way, Philip went over to do a recital in the City Hall a few months back did you manage to hear that? Are things looking up at Holy Trinity - I'll never forget playing the last variation of the Noel (again Dupre) there and during the tocatta having to completely ignore what I was hearing from the organ, I'm sure I was playing half a beat ahead of what I was hearing! I can imagine that organ being a masterpiece when it was in its prime can't you?
21st-century Bach - Worth Another Look?
in The Organ
Posted
Ah yes, 21st-Century Bach. Well what do you want to know?
The reason why they have only recorded on one English organ (so far) is because that episode was the pilot episode, so obviously they were on a tight budget - the Klais in Bath Abbey is an obvious choice for Bach. It was during the film of this episode the sun glasses trend arose! The lighting-team wanted to take lights up into the organ loft, but the authorities at Bath (not sure who) would not allow this, so much bigger, stronger lights had to be used from various other angles. Thus, John complained that he could not see because of all the lighting, and one the producer happened to have a pair of sun glasses handy and said "Here, wear these". From then on it stuck. The same producer (Norman Stone) also somehow persuaded John to record on one of the German organs in bear feet!! After the take John said that it was a ridiculous idea and said he did not want it to make the final edit. Unlucky for John though, there is a picture somewhere of him sat at the organ with no shoes or socks on!
Everything John does in his Bach playing is on purpose. All his ornaments, registrations and tempi have all been seriously thought out. He is convinced that the music needs such decoration. If there is evidence that it was done in Bach's time then nobody can say otherwise (JSW's favourite argument).
It is called the Complete Organ Works because over time it will be. The current DVDs that are available are series 1 and 2. Series 3 has been recorded and is currently being edited, and Series 4 is in the pipe-line, but due to change over of Producers/Directors is not running to schedule. I'm particularly looking forward to the opening of the Prelude in C (BWV 545) as it was apparently nigh-impossible to play because of the difference in compass of the pedal board - I think he said he could only use his left foot for the bottom C, and if you know the piece that is, well, hard!
As for his psalm accompaniment, well that is something you need to see to believe. Being in the loft on a daily basis seeing him play (when Philip or myself are not) is astonishing, yet disconcerting! He manages to get a different colour for every line, and very rarely plays exactly what is written, rather adding descants wherever he can. He very rarely plays a wrong chord, and is sometimes deep in conversation with me mid-psalm (usually about his DVDs!).
Back to the DVDs though, I think they are essential viewing for all organists, not only because they are excellent (yes, they are), but nothing like this has been done before, and it is excellent that the BBC have backed this idea, even though they are yet to sell them on the high-street - they are only available online.