emsgdh
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Posts posted by emsgdh
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Each to his own!
However, having played an untouched H-J, I cannot agree! It sounded like a sick cow moo-ing into a bucket of porridge. Personally I find French reeds so alive and musical. I hate H&H trombi with a passion - harmonically dead, opaque - just sheer noise.
Now I do like Hill reeds, particularly around the end of the nineteenth century. But those French reeds are wonderful. However, I quite understand that to each is given his or her own vision of beauty - in whatever form that should take.
I would be interested to know what your views regarding English low-pressure chorus reed of the nineteenth century were, Karl. For example, reeds by JWW Walker or William Hill.
About low pressure reeds:
I've long thought that the Hill formula of flues at 3 - 3 1/2 and reeds at about 5 inches represents an ideal. Tubas could be 10 inches or more. I like the Southwark set-up w/ the whole job on a moderate pressure plus a couple of HP Solo reeds.
Heard that little Trumpet that HWIII put on the Choir Organ at Salisbury. It's a beautiful job of voicing & just the right thing in terms of the whole job.
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Each to his own!
However, having played an untouched H-J, I cannot agree! It sounded like a sick cow moo-ing into a bucket of porridge. Personally I find French reeds so alive and musical. I hate H&H trombi with a passion - harmonically dead, opaque - just sheer noise.
Now I do like Hill reeds, particularly around the end of the nieteenth century. But those French reeds are wonderful. However, I quite understand that to each is given his or her own vision of beauty - in whatever form that should take.
I would be interested to know what your views regarding English low-pressure chorus reed of the nineteenth century were, Karl. For example, reeds by JWW Walker or William Hill.
I like 'em.
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The well-known french organist Xavier Darasse recorded many discs, among which Liszt at......St-Maximin du Var !
Here is a short extract that might be interesting because it shows how the true french reeds sound: nearly like spanish ones.
To be listened loud:
http://www.voiceoflyrics.com/gr/014/014p3_64k.mp3
Pierre
Pierre:
With great respect, that is the most revolting sound I have ever heard.
Never a fan of unit organs, but I'd take H-J any time over that noise.
Karl Watson
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Sure there's no question about quantity, but what about the quality?
I'm sure Yale has a very good Organ. I am sure there I are some very good Organs in the United States. No doubt about it, I've listened to a number of them. But we are talking here about a possible 'Top Five', for fun of course, but even when it's fun these things are always difficult to define. The Organ/The Music/The Building/If you're feeling good that day. It's always a fun but difficult one to call.
What is not difficult to call is the sheer beauty, or majestic presence, or a combination of all sorts of strange variables that make a superb Organ stand out. My first Top Five for instance included a number of indisputable gems that I am sure no one would argue with. Listening to the exquisite Choir Organ of King's Cambridge whilst sitting in the Choir Stalls is an unforgettable experience. Listening to the superb Cavaille Coll at St Ouen, Rouen is another. All are defining experiences, which go along with the medieval stonework, the ambience, the smell, the music (Continental European of course), all of these things gel together for an unforgettable experience.
Neither does a Top Five Organ in my book need to be big, either. None of my Top Five choices are particualrly large Organs, all infact are in the range of up to 65-75 stops or so, the biggest being St Paul's Cathedral (now at 108 stops, but for my money I would concentrate on the Chancel Organ with Pedal, which comes to 75 stops). Again, I'm driving at quality here, rather than quantity. I am sure that Yale has a fine Organ, and I am sure it can blast your head off with chamades on 50' wind pressure. But does that make an Organ great?
I think not. Unless of course you like 32' en chamade eclairs, but I'd better stop there, in case that certain of our American cousins may rear there ugly heads again.
Who ever said ANTHING about enormous volume and the big Skinner at Yale? It is an instrument of infinite nuance and color, mostly in the range from ppp to f. Yes, it does have a truly earth shaking fff potential, but that is NOT what makes it truly great. There are no stops and pressures as you describe. As for quality, if there was ever a European builder that approached the quality of the Roosevelt, Treat, Skinner, AEolian and Kimbal firms, it was Cavaille-Coll and only Cavaille-Coll. If you were to view the interior of the Yale organ, it would take your breath away. EVERYTHING about that instrument defines the Art of Organbuilding.
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I would struggle to include any American Organ in a Top Ten, let alone a Top Five. Continental Europe has it sewn up. Even a couple of English Organs come into the reckoning.
It's not just the Organ itself, or even the music: it's also the building. The ambience, the smell, the depth of time. Money can buy some things, but time isn't one of them.
Anyone who has heard the big organ at Yale would never say that.
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Alastair:
Thank you for asking !
The builder is Burton Tidwell. There will be very complete Gt, Sw & Ped w/ a kind-of Ch cum Solo as the third manual (16,8,8,8,8,8,4,4,IV,16,8,8).
We are anticipating a good result. The acoustic is excellent, w/ good response across the scale. The open location on the West gallery really gives things a leg up.
The former job was a neo-classical werk-prinzip attempt by a distinctly second rate American builder. But - it came off much better than it should have because of its excellent position and the fine acoustic. One wonders what was on the incumbent's mind, installing a Lutheran organ in an RC church. Even the case design, very Backerath-like, w/ 16' towers and a Kronpositiv up at the top of the case just a few feet fr the vaulting, didn't fit the very Romanesque building - never in tune & useless as a third manual.
I saw the whole thing removed through my study window & good ridance.
Kept a very nice 4' Nachthorn. That's it.
If I'm not too mistaken, John Scott is experiencing something similar at St.Thomas Church. Over a hundred stops & one swell box. Madness.
Will keep you posted if you are interested.
Karl Watson
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an excellent idea, Richard.
Karl Watson, here, from Staten Island, NY, USA. Educated at the Curtis Institute & in Paris w/ Marcel Dupre. I am 56. In some thirty-seven years, I've held non-conformist, Lutheran, Anglican & RC appointments. Every church has been a peach with not a single clergy stinker. I'm now the Music Director of St. Raymond Nonnatus RC in Parkchester, NY, a really lovely situation with a fine new three manual (four celestes, Tuba & 32' Reed) whose installation began last week. From my perspective "over here," I find many young pupils with superb technique but almost no players who can play a succesful service or Mass. Good legato seems to be in short supply, as well.
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I always try to pick something that is on the light side, not loud. I've played the Schumann Sketch in D-flat or the Yon Primitive Organ. My favourite is a little trio on Jerome Kern's "All the Things You Are" by Billy Nalle, the late Americn theatre organist.
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Can't agree with St. Mary Redcliffe I'm afraid. Its the only organ I've ever played that has struck me as being unpleasantly loud, and the choir and echo are too soft by far compared to the rest of the instrument.
These things are, of course entirely subjective, and few of us ordinary punters have had the opportunity to travel the world and hear or play its greatest organ. For me, the finest organ I've heard (but sadly not played) in this country is Westminster Cathedral, a view reputedly shared by Carlo Curley, although I'm prepared to accept that we may not all think him the best arbiter of taste.
One is loathe to second Mr. Curley in anything from the time of day to the local weather, but I agree that Westminster Cathedral is No.1 in GB. I find it interesting that Lynnwood Farnam considered Liverpool Cathedral to be tops, and that was before the nave was completed. It is so very much the thing to thumbs-down HWIII. But the fact remains that one has a better chance at playing the repertoire on one of his (HWIII) jobs than on an Arthur Harrison, as sublime as his organs are for playing Stanford in B-flat.
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I thought I ought to learn some Rheinberger sonatas. Which are the best? Which are the least difficult?
I'd like to put in a good word for the f-minor sonata. I think it's no.7. My copy is the Harvey Grace edition which is filled w/ excellent advice.
It's a really marvelous piece, w/ beautiful tunes just everywhere. Feels good under the fingers, too.
E.Power Biggs used to ply it. Suppose he must have studied it w/ G D Cunningham.
Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY
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well heres me having a bash at it for a voluntary after evensong last week here in chester (appologies for background nice - it was live!)
FABULOUS
BRAVO, RICHARD!
Wonderful tempo. If you young people get any better, I'm going to have to start taking your pieces out of my repertoire.
Once again, congratulations on the really beautiful work.
Karl Watson
Staten Island, NY
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I would have to agree that nothing comes to mind that is quite as bad as the IVES Variations. Foul. Absolutely FOUL.
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As for the pig-ignorant attitude of British congregations, I despair.
Well how about this then? Last week, on Ash Wednesday, I played JSB's "O Lammes Gott, unshuldig" BWV618 as the concluding voluntary. People remained quiet until it was finished, and then left the church in near silence. Contrast that attitude with that shown four days later. Again, I chose a reflective piece - "Erbarm dich mein" BWV721 - but this time I had to compete with a group of people 10ft behind me, who spent the entire time laughing and guffawing loudly.
No, I wasn't expecting a round of applause. Far from it. I would simply like people to either sit and listen, or leave quietly.
It was the closest I have come to stopping mid-piece and giving up.
Dear Graham Powell:
The fact that you kept on & did NOT give up or let fly w/ protests says something about the legendary good manners of the English.
I have a very nice job (oxymoron?) in a RC church. The rubrics say NO solo instrumental music for memorial Masses, funerals or during Lent. Nevertheless, I do play for about 5-10 min before each Mass (repertoire) & improvise for about 30 sec on mp foundations after Mass. What do you think? Am I doing right or wrong?
Needy American
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Just heard this too - Aaaaagh!!!
AJJ
PS Someone really should tell him....it's only fair!
Yr humble servant was moved to explain the facts of life to him. His website has one of those "contact me" features.
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Wowsers. What is the next stage on beyond the mind boggling?
I want to assure my friends here that the American standard of organ playing (not to mention mental health) is generally much higher than this disgrace.
One is reminded of the Emperor's New Clothes.
Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY
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Unless things change, and change drastically, I will allow my subscription to lapse. In one fell swoop it has lost everything for which it enjoyed such distinction.
Paul Hale created a "Golden Era" for the magazine. It would be hard to imagine a finer journal for professionals and students alike. Every issue seemed to be imbued with an almost rapturous love of the instrument.
I am afraid we may have a long wait for the rapture of the moment to return.
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Having just read the new 'LATEST' (read only) forum, I should just like to thank Mr Mander and other moderators (?) for their perseverence in the face of recent problems with the web site and its use. I'm sure we are all grateful for their provision and maintenance of this facility.
John
AMEN! AND AGAIN I SAY, AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I thought I would come up with a couple of console designs to stevebournias specifications. As you can see it offers plenty of resources and duplexing, a feature in Mr Bournias's design.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/leeb...rniasorgan1.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e72/leeb...rniasorgan2.jpg
Comments welcome!
I think that you've hit the nail on the head, Lee. These bear the unmistakable flavour of Sauce La Bournais - adolescent nightmare.
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Sorry, my intention wasn't to point out one person in particular, but just generally.
Why be sorry? I'm sorry that he that cannot be named has ruined these discussions with his infantile and insipid posts.
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Is it possible for people to put organ specifications into two or three columns? It makes it much easier to read. I'm getting a bit fed up of having to scroll down all the time to get past particularly the stevebournias proportioned specs.
Quite right. The stevebournias specs have their own distinctive odor of postpubescent wretched excess.
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Find that I agree w/ ALL (save the DG/Preston) of Jeremy's choices. I too have been waiting patiently for these favourites to come back. The Kynaston recordings, esp. those fr Westminster Cathedral have a special place in my affections.
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Someone suggested we should have a thread for organ recordings no longer available or which have never been transferred from LP to CD, so here goes with my wish list:
Organ of Westminster Cathedral - Nicolas Kynaston
Dupre: Symphony No.2. Evocation. Durufle: Prelude, Adagio, et Choral varie sur le "Veni Creator."
MITRA RECORDS
This was recorded in 1984/5 just after the organ had been refurbished and to my mind is the best recording yet made of organ which is notoriously difficult to record. My LP has long since disappeared and although I think it was also issued on CD, the record label Mitra has also appeared to have bitten the dust
Organ of Salisbury Cathedral - Jane Parker-Smith
Widor: Symphony No. 5. Jongen: Sonata Eroica. Grison: Toccata in F
EMI RECORDS
I had this on an EMI cassette. The Widor and Jongen might be the more well-known pieces, but it was the Grison which really got me excited. Bits of this recording have appeared piecemeal on various CDs, but of the Widor only the Toccata.
Organ of Westminster Abbey - Simon Preston
Reubke: Sonata on the 94th Psalm. Liszt: Fantasia and Fugue on ‘Ad nos’
DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON
I rate this recording very highly indeed, but it seems to have been deleted by DG fairly soon after release and never reissued subsequently. My cassette has long since worn out so when it appeared on eBay recently I ended up paying £23 for the CD. But it really is that good.
Simon Preston - Organs of King’s College, Cambridge / Westminster Abbey / Colston Hall, Bristol / Hull City Hall / St John the Evangelist, Islington - including
Elgar: Organ Sonata in G. Tippett: Preludio al Vespro di Monteverdi and music by Leighton, Bridge, Howells, Britten (Colston Hall)
ARGO/DECCA
At one time I had the LP boxed set of these recordings made by Simon Preston in the 1960s, but during various moves it has disappeared. Of these recordings, only a CD of some of the pieces recorded at Westminster Abbey has surfaced on Decca's "The World of..." series.
Organ of Westminster Cathedral – Nicolas Kynaston (Vierne: Carillon de Westminster)
Organ of St Paul’s Cathedral – Christopher Dearnley (Ives: Variations on America)
EMI RECORDS
I only knew these recordings from an EMI Miles of Music cassette which also had on it excertps from many of Brian Culverhouse's other famous recordings made in the 1960s, including the famous York Minster Cocker Tuba Tune. Some of these have resurfaced on the Amphion CDs but not the two listed above which were always my favourite.
Organ of Canterbury Cathedral – Allan Wicks
Messiaen: Transports de joie (L’Ascension). Widor: Allegro from Symphonie VI
CENTAUR
These 2 pieces on a cassette were what first really got me excited about the organ. The Messiaen in particular was played at white heat and has to be heard to be believed. Allan Wicks - what an organist!
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W/O offending anyone, I would like to put the greatest possible distance between myself and the comments of a certain Mr. Steve Bournais. Not only are they patent nonsense to any right-thinking person, his views are certainly NOT shared by the church musicians of the US. We have, and will continue to look to England for the brightest and best in church music. The standards achieved in Britain w/ a fraction of the resources (money) common in the states is something to be admired by one & all, not to mention CHERISHED.
Karl Watson, Staten Island, NY
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One dislikes stressing the negative, but I found this last issue more than disappointing. What a difference now that Pale Hale is gone.
Choral Evensong
in The Organ
Posted