ajt
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Posts posted by ajt
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A good ear and a natural instinct is the important issue, and neither can be really learnt, it has to be there naturally really.
Thanks for the response!
A good ear and instinct I agree with, but surely there's something more than that in actually teaching boys to sing, and, more importantly, sing in the way that you want them to, and that will stand them in good stead for later in life?
John Bertalot's books, if you can get past the way they're written, seem to convey some of this, but I wondered what other resources are out there that the more experienced folks, such as yourself and Stephen Farr know of...
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What resources are out there to help people train youth choirs, particularly boys?
I often feel that I'm bumbling along, hoping that I'm doing things right...
I rather feel that most of the choral tradition in this country relies on experience rather than teaching - i.e. the more successful trainers have come up through the cathedral/collegiate tradition. I'm fortunate enough to have started off that way, but never had the reinforcement that would have come with being organ scholar or assistant at an establishment that had a treble line...
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Lest anyone be in any doubt (and some of you are) my comment was not intended to be taken seriously.
Yes, I was, but I was having a conscience attack about being rude about someone else's playing - probably because I'd just heard a recording of myself!
I'm cured now
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Oh God - it is 12h37 and I am due in school at 07h45!
Wuss. I'm still writing code, and I'm due up at 6.30, followed by a 60 mile drive... (a short hop for our American colleagues!)
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I think he is trying to be like Virgil Fox.
So c'mon guys book him for a recital. I wunna see him play in the UK.
Romsey Abbey would be a good test, I think.
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I also suspect that underneath all that fluff and nonsense, there is a fairly sound technique; in which case, the lack of taste is entirely his own fault - but that is only my opinion.
Yes, I agree with you - I don't think the guy is talentless, just tasteless. At least, to my stuffy British ear.
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Nah ... it's just that I've been spending too much time on the BBC's Radio 3 message board and have picked up their habits
Seriously, I think you make a good point. It's not as though this board has closed membership, and there aren't many organ fora in existence. How long before Mr Nobile does actually find this board, and how would this thread come across? As you say - whether in seriousness or in jest, I can't tell - like a bunch of elitest snobs.
For once, I can understand some of stevec_whatsisname's vitriol directed towards ivory tower British organ snobs (and I'm not trying to be rude about anyone on here, I include myself in this label, despite not being a very good organist!).
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What a load of objectionable, elitist snobs we all are on this message board. Shame on us!
Yes, you're right. I'm having a conscience debate about it. As I said in an earlier post - not to my taste, but to each their own. I would hate for Mr Nobile to find this thread, and to think that we're decrying his talents ; he's clearly not without talent, just his style of playing doesn't fit with what I would choose to listen to.
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Ummm.... I am not sure - but, hey, it is probably just bollocks.
I'm looking for the Bollocks "smiley", but can't find it. I think that's a serious omission on any UK hosted message board.
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Oh God, I take it all back. WTF is a Fusician?
From the bio page:
"Arty is a Fusician, fusing the genres of art, architecture, literature, theater, and music in one unique and startling whole. He bursts upon the stage ....."
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Has anyone else had this experience - or does my computer need a good kicking again?
Yup, had a similar experience, but refreshed the page, and it worked. I think it's Flash buffering the video.
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I must see if his postal address is online, then I can send him the Colin Hand, Widor's Toccata made Playable
Thinking about this, I think it's remarkably unfair, even snobbish of me to criticise this chap - his style of playing may not be to my taste, but each to their own.
God, I hate it when I get a conscience attack!
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Ah - yes - the video link!
Does anyone have a correct url, please? I tried one earlier, but it did not seem to work.
Thank you.
There's:
Widor (At least I think that's what it's supposed to be):
http://www.nobile.com/sound/Toccata_Sym_V_Widor.MP3
I must see if his postal address is online, then I can send him the Colin Hand, Widor's Toccata made Playable
And *that* video - http://www.nobile.com/html/video.html
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2 things bother me about this recording...
1. I couldn't play any better.
2. I have the sense not to play like that in public
No 1 is personally worrying in that my organ skills are so poor. No 2 bothers me because I would expect that someone who is trying to make a name for themselves (or has made a name in the US?) as an organist would show the same restraint and sense of realism about their own abilities as I do.
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OK - thank you for clarifying the position.
I should expect a good electro-pneumatic action to last at least forty years, though!
Mine's just hit its 50th birthday, and is still going, but definitely showing its age.
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As to training them together - we have occasionally done this with joint top-row practices; however, I have observed that our boys and girls need a slightly different approach. It was interesting to note that there were also different technical issues which had to be addressed between the two choirs.
That has been my experience also, particularly when the girls are that little bit older that the boys.
However, I don't think many of us in the Parish Church arena are in the luxurious state of having a pseudo-cathedral setup such as you have - if had separated out my trebles to sing as boys and girls choirs, I'd have had 4 + 6 respectively...
But, maybe training them separately and running them as single sex treble lines might have recruitment benefits - as pcnd mentions, there is a lot of peer ridicule associated with boys singing in a choir, and anything we can do to minimise that has got to be a good thing...
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Oops (How do I delete an accidental post?)
You should be able to edit your post - click on the edit button. But I guess you've already done that bit. Don't think you can delete a post though.
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There's a famous recording of a John's organ scholar breaking wind very audibly in a live R3 broadcast...wouldn't dream of saying who.
And having successfully dragged the "tone" of this discussion down to the gutter... Back to the subject of choral tone...
Being a parish church organist, I have to take whatever children I can find, so I have had in the past a mixed treble line, something which I plan to build up again in my new place.
What are people's thoughts on training girls and boys together?
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Stephen, many thanks for your illuminating comments. There's some very useful food for thought there. As far as tone production goes, I'll know I've cracked it when I can get a choir to sing the first chord of Byrd's Ave verum with a magic pianissimo that doesn't sound as if the singers are still three-quarters asleep and hungover after a hard night's partying!
I was once conducting a university choir doing, amongst other things, the Ave Verum, on live radio (only local radio). I gave the upbeat to the accompaniment of a very resonant burp from a certain bass, who then apologised loudly to his neighbour for the pervading stench of curry....
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mixture. I was asked to keep mutations out of choral accompaniment registrations (esp. psalms)
By whom? Must be a pretty good choir if they're worried about tuning imperfections against a mixture/mutation!
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Correct, Adrian
Phew. I can never keep up with all you clever types. Was a silly question, I know, but my brain stops working when I go to work.
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You are still thinking in terms of the chord resolving - it does not do this! It is providing a fake 32p effect!
Presumably all you're doing is adding the harmonics that would normally be present if using a 32, which tricks the ear into hearing the fundamental note that doesn't really exist?
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The organist there in my time (and fellow Southampton undergrad.) is now Vicar of South Stoneham & Burgess Road!
And on-sabatical chairman of the Winchester RSCM, assuming you mean Gary Philbrick...
Choral Tone Revisited
in General discussion
Posted
Thanks for this! I have the Hill/Parfitt book, and found it excellent. Obviously, combined with singing lessons, this helps greatly with training youngsters.
Your suggestion about approaching someone locally to see how they handle things is an excellent idea, I did observe a couple of rehearsals at Lichfield when I was teaching there, but at the time wasn't particularly aware of how much I didn't know - I shall have to approach the same gentleman again... Different cathedral now, of course
I worry, though, that this is skill that is dying out, and there is no opportunity for people to learn it. As you say, the RSCM (don't get me started - I'm on the local committee, and agree with your comments) should be the institution to do this, but doesn't. The Voice for Life choir trainer's manual is quite good but, as with any book, it's just a collection of words - turning them into practical use, and making sure that those words have been interpreted properly, is a very important thing; if we choir trainers don't teach children to sing properly, then we have failed both ourselves and the children.