ajt
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Posts posted by ajt
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As a computer engineer by trade (like me) you must surely know that a correctly built dedicated Windows machine is as stable as any other platform. I can play Hauptwerk day in, day out, with no trouble at all - and that's on a non-dedicated machine.
Paul
To get a properly stable machine, i.e. one that can run for 10 years without having to be touched, requires a fairly substantial investment in hardware. Yes, modern digital organs rely on computers too, but they're embedded systems, which are very reliable. OK, you could spend the money and get decent hardware (hell, come buy some Sun kit, we need the money)...
As you say, a correctly built machine can be stable for a period of time (provided it's shut down correctly, etc, etc), and you yourself can play Hauptwerk to your heart's content - but, and here's my main argument against basing anything on Windows, or any other non-dedicated system, you know what you're doing.
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A Lotus 7, a beautiful and fine car.
In the hands of a good driver I’ve no doubt a speedy and pleasant journey would be had but too much right foot on a wet roundabout, ouch.
I drive one very regularly - a Caterham 7, at least, as Lotus haven't made them for years. Fantastic machine. I'm a little too wide for it, but there's nothing quite like it, especially at this time of year.
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Pardon my ignorance, but isn't Hauptwerk just a computer program? It surely relies on having a MIDI keyboard hooked up to a computer, hooked up to amplification?
How does the player control stops, etc, on the fly?
I can't see how that could replace having a "proper" console, whether a toaster or windbag.
Please do enlighten me!
Ah - answered my own stupidity. You can buy pre-built consoles designed to plug into Hauptwerk.
Still, as a computer engineer by trade, I have to advise anyone that is seriously considering running their organ on *Windows* that they need their head examined. Adding a generic computer to an organ is just asking for trouble, especially one that runs Windows. I can just imagine getting halfway through the Sanctus, then getting prompted to hit OK or Cancel, accompanied by a gentle ding bellowing round the church
I'd like to hear a Hauptwerk organ for real though.
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I believe the Pershore plans have been temporarily shelved because another church in the benefice has an urgent fundraising requirement (probably a roof, but I'm not sure).
I'd be very interested to hear how any church justifies a proprietary digital organ purchase in 2006 against the capabilities of Hauptwerk. That's not to say it's completely impractical, but I'd like to hear the arguments.
Richard
Pardon my ignorance, but isn't Hauptwerk just a computer program? It surely relies on having a MIDI keyboard hooked up to a computer, hooked up to amplification?
Doesn't that mean that to be a working liturgical instrument, as well as providing a solo instrument for recital work, you need, say, 3 full length MIDI keyboards, a MIDI pedal board, some sort of stand/casing to arrange the keyboards, some sort of Swell device, and a computer, decent amplification, and speakers?
How does the player control stops, etc, on the fly?
I can't see how that could replace having a "proper" console, whether a toaster or windbag.
Please do enlighten me!
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The Mixture as a chorus binder, intended not to be heard, but to emphazise the foundation, is a quite new idea.
From Henry Willis III, Donald Harrison, and even E-M Skinner himself, the Mixtures were there for brillance, sparkle.
It was a colour among others, even when considered the most important one.
They were not really a part of the chorus, but the "spices upon it".
I tend to try to avoid mixtures in my choir accompaniment or solo playing ; I like the rich sound of chorus + reeds (usually without a 4' reed), and think mixtures are like 32' reeds - most effective when used less frequently. In hymn playing, though, I find a mixture invaluable - congregations seem to sing better with a nice bright registration.
I also completely avoid the hideous Cimbel Mixture on my current instrument. I'm considering supergluing the stop in, or just cutting the wires
Life was made considerably better the day our organ maintainer informed me that I *could* set divisional pistons without the building blowing up, just not generals, and was able to get that blasted cimbel thing off swell 5 & 6. God knows what HWIII was thinking. It's appalling. -
BTW, I've modified this post - on reflection, I think an oberwerk would be better than a brustwerk - the church is quite lofty and voluminous and I think an Oberwerk would fit the character of the church better.
I was under the impression that a single manual installation, with sustain pedal and amp outputs, and couplers "Guitar to Keyboard", "Vocals to keyboard", etc, was more appropriate for this church. Am I wrong then?
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Can anyone explain this difference in approach to accessing combinations? What are your personal preferences? With the potential of programming thousands of general combinations (using modern digital systems), are divisional pistons redundant?
On a similar theme, what are your opinions of thumb pistons duplicating the stop controls for individual couplers?
John
Personally I use divisionals for setting up common combinations on each manual, to give me a reasonably smooth crescendo from pp to ff, as I'm sure most people do.
I use generals for setting up "solo" setups or one off, quirky registrations. At least I would if the generals on my current instrument were settable without it blowing up in a fit of sparks.
Sequencers are handy not just in recitals, but also in accompaniment, if you have a piece that requires a number of registration changes, you just keep kicking "next", without having to think over much, so you can concentrate on getting the notes mostly right and at the right time.
Thumb pistons for couplers are useful, depending on the console layout. I use gt-ped quite a lot, and sw-ch on my current instrument. Certainly having some form of getting gt-ped without having to take hands off is very handy, whether thumb or toe driven.
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I seem to remember the Choir Trompette could also be roped in to help out on occasions too. A bit of fire in the winter when we students diligently trooped down to prepare our pieces before the Collins at the University went in - it used to be perishing down there. The only place worse was the RC church with the horrid little organ at the back - high up and the console at the front. There the whole stoplist was truncated!!
AJJ
It's still bloody freezing, which is a source of a lot of leather related problems
Ihave got 2 heaters installed in the organ loft now, though, so at least *my* toes stay warm. Bugger the congregation - they can bring their own heaters. -
The organ was designed by Col. George Dixon, who wrote in 1932: "Now we come to the most remarkable feature of the whole organ. The full swell piston draws contra posaune 16ft., cornopean 8ft., clarion 4ft., flageolet 2ft., and mixture 12 19 22: but five speaking stops, and there are no couplers. This wonderful full swell effect has deceived many, yet it scarcely could be improved upon. The oboe, when drawn, cannot be heard unless it be out of tune, and the addition of the open and gemshorn is inappreciable. The thrill is, of course, due to the splendour of the reeds, and the admirable blend of the mixture: a result which the builder knew so well how to obtain."
Is it still in good order? I've heard lots of good things about this instrument, and I seem to recall a reasonable amount of discussion of it in Stephen Bicknell's book.
I'm lucky enough to have 2 possibilties for a full swell sound, which, given the much depleted state of many Anglican parish choirs, is quite a blessing.
Mini full swell = 4' fugara, 2' flageolet, Dulzian 16' & Hautboy 8'
Proper full swell = 16' Waldorn, 8' Trumpet, 4' Clarion + IV Mixture (12 15 19 22). Plus, if you like, the principal chorus, but it's rather drowned, as would the choir be if I used this...
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Well, I bet AJT does on his, if only from the perspective of wind preservation and having the swell speak within a tone of the rest of it. But then again, he can't set pistons without causing some unexpected electrical malady generally involving billows of smoke and the creation of novel and arresting new couplers, such as Pedal to Swell 4 4/7 with bagpipe drone.
Yeah, something like that. I can now set the divisionals, but not generals. Don't use them anyway...
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oh right. Does an organ need a 16' swell reed and a 32' pedal reed to have some real guts? I had no idea... a horizontal solo trumpet never does it, of course.
And of course, if you have a 16' bourdon then you simply must quint it and create a 32' Harmonic bass!!! Why do some people just not bother!?!
I must have my organ altered immediately to have these features!
I can't remember the 32 flue at Adrian's church. I remember the pile-driver 32' quite vividly and rather liked it. I hope it's in better health now. Fine organ, though.
No, you don't need a 32, etc. But, in a building the size of a cathedral, you usually expect some sort of 32, whether a flue or reed, just to provide some extra gravitas.
The pile driver is less pile driver like when you shut the box on it - it can be quite subtle, you know
And yes, it's in better health now - the electrics still need doing, but we've had a few repairs done to leatherwork, e.g. great stop machine, and I've been doing bodge repairs on some of the chests, with duct tape. The cotton ties have split, so the top sides of the chests were leaking like hell. Full-ish organ is now sustainable for a few seconds rather than the nano second we had before. -
Thank you, Adrian. In which case, it is greatly superior to an Acoustic Bass (where the fundamental is usually obtained from an Open Wood and the quint from a Bourdon rank).
No wonder I liked your stop!
There was me thinking it was called Acoustic Bass, where it was actually called Sub Bass. My brain has really stopped working...
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It's a stopped extension of the Open Bass, I believe.
According to Sumner's article in the Organ, 1958 (which someone from this board kindly found for me), it *is* an extension of the Open Bass, scaled 14 3/5" x 12 1/4". If that means anything to you! (As you know, I'm ignorant of these things)
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Adrian, I had thought that the 32p flue on your own instrument was a downwards extension of the Pedal Bourdon - is this correct? It is listed as such on the NPOR.
Are some of the lower notes acoustic, in fact?
I would be interested to know - I vaguely remember it sounding like a 'real' stopped 32p, instead of an acoustically-contrived rank.
It's a stopped extension of the Open Bass, I believe.
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I'm sure it's the way we make them. I've never yet heard a British example that is effective - but I've never yet heard an American example that wasn't.
The acoustic bass on my instrument (Willis III) is actually rather good. Unfortunately some of the lower notes have been blocked up by dust from construction work a few years ago, but it's surprisingly effective on all the others - regardless of whether you're using soft strings or great chorus.
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If that does not do it, the character 'г', is in fact a 'g' (although it is occasionally pronounced or read as a ' v ' ).
Although I do try to keep abreast of developments, I have no idea what 'pussy' is in Russian....
'I play on [the] organ.' (There is no definite article in Russian.)
I'm trying hard to remember the word ...
Bizarrely, it's something I was definitely taught, in the crude sense. We had 2 lecturers at Uni, one for written/grammar, one for conversation.
Our first lesson with the conversationalist was an eye opener. In walks this Russian shotputter of a woman, dressed in leopard print lycra leggings and a tiara. She announces in a very rich, dark Russian accent - "Put away yourrr text boooks. They talk about boring things like food and shopping. In my lessons we talk about sex and violence. Prrrreferrrably together."
And it was true. That was the basis for a year's worth of Russian study, until she left. Then it was back to food and shopping
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googling for pncd's phrase (I have no Cyrillic, alas) brings up a rather charming picture of a kitten. bless.
I'll give you a hint - change a couple of letters in the last word органе - P = R, H = N.
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I concur heartily with the two most recent posts by ajt and Dulciana.
As Adrian has said, the crux of the matter is that whatever is done is done well - and that it is in an homogenous style, for want of a better term.
I believe that a 'mix-and-match' approach is doomed from the outset - unless, of course, the congregation in question actually like the ecclesiastical equivalent of kippers and custard.
Great analogy! Kippers and custard indeed. Begs the question of whether Kendrick would be the kippers or the custard...
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I have seen several cases of churches introducing a particular style of music in order to reach young people (for example). In every case, all it did was to alienate most of the existing congregation and cause a virtually irrevocable divide in the church community as a whole. In most cases, many of the new younger church attendees lost interest after a few months, when they had stopped being the centre of attention.
I've found that most congregations want something that has a definite style or direction, and for that style to be done well.
e.g. be high church, have a cathedral-style choir, use NEH and sing Psalms.
or be "Praze" style - have a worship group, sing Kendrick, put your arms in the air.
Ok, there is room for a little less extreme worship than either of these (by extreme I mean in terms of polar opposites, rather than implying that either of these are a bad thing).
If a church does either of the above, then their congregation is likely to be happy. They know what they're getting. They have an identity.
However, go for wishy washy middle of the road Anglican that tries to combine a cathedral style choir, sing Anglican chant, etc with Kendrick, and you're stuffed. This seems to be what many churches do in an attempt to "modernise". It leaves the congregation with no real identity, and turns away many people. i.e. "Praze" folks don't get enough arm waving, and the die-hard Anglicans don't get enough misery and torture
I honestly believe that a sense of identity is what churches need to grow - if they do ONE thing, and do it well, then congregations will feel fulfilled, provided that style fits with the individuals expectations and desires. Too many churches try to please all of the people, and they end up pleasing very few of the people, hardly ever.
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It's also possible to sing the Gloria to the theme of Eastenders - demonstrated to me by a clergyman who had been on a weekend bash to a Theological College, where they all thought it was huge fun, apparently....is there no hope ?
H
Those who know of Howells' Dallas Service might be surprised to know that it doesn't go to the theme of the once popular TV show, but it's quite uncanny how "My soul doth mag-ni-fy the_ Lord" fits to the theme tune...
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I once read an interview with David Sanger, in which (I think) he said words to the effect that playing the piano is bad for organ technique. One often hears the opposote viewpoint. What do others think please?
I don't know about being bad for technique - mine couldn't get any worse - but I find a harpsichord very useful for practicing organ music on. The piano's ok at a push, but the harpsichord has that difference of touch and technique that is similarish to a mechanical action organ, and if you have a 2 manual version, is great for doing things like trios, etc. (minus the pedal, of course!).
I was lucky enough to get a harpsichord for nowt a couple of months ago.
It was legless and has taken a long time to settle down pitch wise, but I wouldn't part with it, especially now a friend has made me some legs for it. Next challenge is to renew the plectra on the 8' stop...
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I hope this topic doesn't upset anyone. Apologies in advance!
I wondered if anyone cared to suggest the 20 best hymns; the hymns that all churchgoers should be introduced to, both musically and theologically. Ancient, traditional, modern - the choice is yours.
And no fights about musical styles, please.
Hymns or Hymn tunes?
My favourite tunes are:
Love Unknown
Guiting Power
Gonfalon Royal
Coe Fen
Repton
St. Clement
Down Ampney
Add a good descant too (has anyone come across the "St. Paul's Cathedral Descant Book", descants by John Scott?), and I might just cry.
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Well how interesting that was. Rather like watching paint dry.
Perhaps the Moderator might consider reducing the length of postings. especially where organ builders are receiving free publicity !
Colin Richell.
Actually, I thought it was quite interesting.
Ihave got 2 heaters installed in the organ loft now, though, so at least *my* toes stay warm. Bugger the congregation - they can bring their own heaters.
And yes, it's in better health now - the electrics still need doing, but we've had a few repairs done to leatherwork, e.g. great stop machine, and I've been doing bodge repairs on some of the chests, with duct tape. The cotton ties have split, so the top sides of the chests were leaking like hell. Full-ish organ is now sustainable for a few seconds rather than the nano second we had before.
First We Had 'arty', Now 'big Ma'am'!
in General discussion
Posted
I'm a Mac man too... (Although I'm a UNIX kernel engineer by trade!) I would dearly like to see Hauptwerk on the Mac - I can't imagine it would perform too well under Virtual PC.
I can see the arguments for Hauptwerk, etc, but there is a fundamental difference between the synth/keyb market and your average village organist. Synth/Keyb folks tend to be geeks, so they're quite happy fiddling around with computers, bits of wire, MIDI interfaces, channels, etc. Village organists tend not to be. I know a fair few around here who having difficulty just coping with having more than one stop per manual, let alone couplers ...
Yes, lots of us on here probably are computer-savvy, but then, we're posting to an Internet discussion forum, so we do all at least know how to use this Interweb-thingy.
I wasn't trying to start a flame war, I just wanted to understand how Hauptwerk can be used in a church instrument.
Can any of the Hauptwerk experts tell me how it plugs into one of the custom MIDI consoles, particularly around startup/shutdown? Is the expectation that the PC is kept running and ready for action, or is there an on/off switch linked to the power management on the PC, etc?