Philip
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Posts posted by Philip
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A search in the top right corner will reveal at least two threads with a similar title already exist on this forum, but please bear with me...in those threads the merits or otherwise of both music and words have been debated, and I'm familiar with the arguments, so I intend to pose a different question, particularly as many of those reading this have doubtless accompanied the work in the past.
Our choir will be performing 'The Crucifixion' in April with our colleagues from the Methodist Church and so I'm starting to think about the accompaniment. As with any piece, I'm eager to make this as colourful as possible, and there are clearly plenty of opportunities to do this. The score provides some suggestions, but I'm keen to hear of extra melodies you like to bring out, moments to emphasise or registration combinations you like to utilise. In particular, markings in the score appear periodically to indicate senza pedal or con pedal. This seems to my reading to leave quite a lot of the work, especially the solo passages, played on manuals only - do you follow this or adapt it to suit? I'm presuming such markings are Stainer's and not later editorial additions.
For practical information, my instrument is a well-stocked two manual (39 stops) with a full complement of generals, divisionals, stepper and plenty of memories, which I plan to utilise to the full and wish to start setting shortly!
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I can't say we're offering anything new or radical in Beeston...
Sunday evening - Joint Carol Service at the Methodist Church down the road with me at the console - lessons and carols (although with a few odd congregational choices - 'It was on a starry night' and 'Who would think that what was needed' - neither of which I know). Choir singing A great and mighty wonder, The Holly and the Ivy (arr Walford Davies), Mary's Boy Child (arr Bowsher), Candlelight Carol (Rutter) and Still, still, still (arr Ledger). BWV 729 during the offering, Carillon de Westminster to finish. Whatever random collections of books I take down the road to fill the pre-service time.
Christmas Eve, 4.30pm -
ChaosCrib Service. A scribbled out order of service I'll get about 10 minutes before the service with a random selection of carols which will always include Away in a Manger and Silent Night. Lefebure-Wely in E flat to finish.Midnight Mass (with smoke - yay!) - standard Mass of St Thomas, probably Still x 3 again from the choir, plus Ding dong (arr Wood) if time permits. Probably WJ Westbrook's arrangement of 'O Holy Night' before, Martin Setchell's Toccata on Joy to the World afterwards - its on Youtube if you're at all interested...
Christmas Morning - same Mass without smoke and with slightly different carols, Philip Stopford's Born in a Stable as the anthem and Widor V to finish.
In between my Christmas Eve gigs I normally go to St Marys, Nottingham for their Carol Service at 7pm, which looks to be an excellent menu as usual, with the Lanquetuit Toccata on the way out. And I may try to make it to Southwell for theirs the night before too. Glutton for punishment etc.
But I may already have had the highlight of my Christmas this year, which was last Sunday evening when I went to Southwell to hear Simon Hogan play 'La Nativite' (with reflections between movements and a piece of art to accompany each) - my first encounter with this piece and one that has certainly left a last impression and has even left me with a desire to learn some of it...
Season's greetings to all (when he comes!).
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I haven't listed to this broadcast yet, but have received Priory's latest DVD from Norwich with David Dunnett, and he demonstrates the Cymbelstern (and the rotating star which is on the case!) on there. As ever, the DVD (from what have I seen) is excellent.
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I'm sure many contributors already possess the excellent box set about Cavaille-Coll's organs made by Fugue State Films, and those who purchased directly from them will also, like me, have received an e-mail today with details of two exciting new DVD projects about Franck and Widor. Further details are available on their website at http://www.fuguestatefilms.co.uk/, including details of how to 'subscribe' in order to support the projects, as they did for the CC DVDs.
In brief, the Franck DVD will contain a one-hour documentary and performances of the six major organ works not included on the CC DVD - the Three Chorals, Pastorale, Piece Heroique and Grand Piece Symphonique, all played by David Noel-Hudson on three different organs. The Widor DVD will also contain a one-hour documentary presented by Gerard Brooks, with Brooks playing No. 5 at Rouen and No. 6 at Orleans. Both come with CDs too.
This surely promises to be another must-have for fans of the genre - we will have to petition them to do a similar film for Vierne afterwards!
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I think it would be a shame if the art of reharmonising last verses were to die out, as I think a good one can certainly lift the finale of hymn. Do congregations get put off? I don't think so generally, unless the harmony is particularly extreme.
The question of what a 'good' reharmonisation is remains trickier to answer. Personally, I find that I have a 'stock' of progressions and indeed in some cases full reharmonisations, mostly etched in my memory now. Many have developed over time from hearing other versions or through my own explorations, so the version of a hymn played two years ago might have sounded slightly dodgy in places, but was in fact part of a progression towards something more coherent which I play now. There are still some written-down versions that I use (for instance, Diademata, which we had this morning, for which I always use Paul Walton's excellent version which he has on his website and which he promoted on here some while back). I'm sure no-one would argue with the very fine Willcocks arrangement of the last verse of O come, all ye faithful.
I probably do too many of these, but its part of the way I express myself when I play now, for better or for worse. I only started because I heard someone else doing it and liked it!
Key changes are another matter. These are an occasional indulgence, and usually reserved for something post-1950!
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It would be interesting to find out Philip’s opinion, post performance, of the Hymn to St C.
Well, its certainly not twaddle! No, this was serious music (the Jubilate is somewhat lighter, I think its fair to say) and while it wouldn't perhaps be a Desert Island Disc for me, I enjoyed it.
It was also interesting to note that my opinion of Britten is shared by a number of other members of the choir - so maybe he polarises opinion somewhat?
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To quote 'Jazz Man' (The Fast Show): "Nice." What is the acoustic like? (I am thinking of the Howells, in particular.)
The acoustics are good. The church has recently had the nave re-ordered - previously there were raised wooden areas on which the chairs stood - these have gone to be replaced with an all new floor with underfloor heating, and this has enhanced the acoustic. The mixtures on the organ certainly take flight!
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I hope that it goes well for you. Thank you for your comments.
Blair - would that be Hugh Blair's setting of the Evening Canticles, in B minor? If so, this is indeed a good setting.
That's the one. Of course, I shan't have a Tuba so can't play them exactly as written! And its Howells Coll Reg on Wednesday which goes without saying!
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I'm playing Britten's Jubilate on Wednesday coming on an organ with no pistons (I'm sure pcnd knows the one as I've spoken of it before!). Fortunately it's been pre-registered for me (as are most things). I've not been looking forward to it since I saw it on the music list - it might help if I liked the piece but frankly I think its three minutes of absolute twaddle. Tomorrow evening I'm also on duty when the Hymn to St C is on the list - not a piece I know so I'll be interested to see what I make of it. Fortunately I have Blair and Howells to enjoy as the canticle settings, so all is not lost! I'm afraid I share pcnd's general lack of appreciation for Britten's music from what I've heard, although I couldn't say how he compares in terms of his output as a whole, not knowing it well enough.
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This may be of interest to some - for two reasons - a new Sonata by Francis Pott (IIRC Quinney has played much of Pott's music before), but perhaps more significantly a statement of intent to bring the organ down to 'standard' pitch. Interesting stuff - Mr Quinney making his mark already perhaps?
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I've found a recording on Spotify of St Albans under Barry Rose singing the Jubilate, and it comes in at 2:50 if that helps. The Gloria is the same as for the Mag & Nunc in F. I've clocked the Jubilate at about minim = 66 and the Gloria at about minim = 70. I don't have the music in front of me, but I can only assume the Jubilate is written in four but the Gloria in two, hence the different tempo markings - but minim = 88 would seem rather fast. I don't really know the Jubilate though - I've played the M&N in F but I don't think they're particularly inspiring - the Gloria perhaps being the best bit.
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I played through Jubilate and Postlude yesterday in a spare 10 minutes. The former needs a bit of work but Postlude's coming up soon.
Postlude is pretty easy really, once you've got to grips with the standard Mathias hallmarks - I'd even say its easier than Processional, but not quite as fun. I like a bit of a Tuba honk towards the end (as in Processional). I've also used the Fanfare from Oxford's 'Ceremonial Music' album a couple of times.
I've never looked at Jubilate, thinking there were far too many notes in it for my liking! The piece of his I'd really like to play is Recessional, but again the middle bits have put me off spending proper time on it.
We did Sir Christemas a couple of years back and I think the choir quite enjoyed it. A babe is born is a lot more interesting, but also a lot more difficult!
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Yes, I also play a few bits of his. The 'Six Paraphrases Gregoriennes' are worth a look (easier than Jeanne Demessieux's set of eight, although perhaps not quite such profound music), and I play the sets of variations on 'Sine Nomine' and 'In Dulci Jubilo', which are both good. I might have some others lurking in the cupboard as well.
All Bedard I have seen comes with registration instructions for specific colours (which I quite like), and on a well-equipped instrument this can bring out some nice combinations. However, I reckon most would transfer pretty well to a modest 2-manual as well. The print is clear and prices are always reasonable - the compilations are quite pricey but will contain a lot of music for that (no French-style £20 for five minutes of music here!).
The only thing I'd say is that there is an awful lot of music by Bedard out there and I think if you tried to play every piece you'd get a little bored. That's not meant to be a criticism of Bedard, because I value his original and approachable compositions, but I think that originality only goes so far, if you get my drift.
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I think the problem is all too common.
Our vicar does his best to encourage quiet before the service and at communion (people still go back to their seats and chat after receiving communion!) and will publicly state his disapproval (as he has when the choir anthem has received applause - quite understandably).
A lot depends on the position of organ, organist and (post-service) the coffee bar. I'm down one side of the church, so don't tend to get distractions when I play - the speakers for our organ however are on the West Wall, directly above where everyone gathers for coffee. This has two effects - I get admonished for playing too loudly as they can't talk to each other, and I have to play at a reasonable volume to even hear what I'm playing (for instance, if I treat the middle of Widor V as written, Full Swell with box completely shut, it is inaudible at the console - I still do it so I can enjoy the crescendo back to full organ!). In practice we seem to have the balance of the volume of the organ about right so it can go to full organ without upsetting anyone, but it is rare that I play anything which finishes quietly (even in Lent). The other option, of course, would be to play with registrations which are less than authentic, but if I have suitable colours available I like to make use of them. That said, I do have people who offer appreciation for music both before and after the service (the post-service voluntary is printed in the pew sheet - perhaps that might help the OP to get people to take notice?) and enjoy trying to provide a suitable variety and expanding my repertoire while playing all the old favourites (or in August, my less favourite pieces which I reserve for this slightly depressing holiday time - roll on CS Lang!). The vicar does view the post-service chat as important in a Parish Church situation, which I can sympathise with, although it isn't that often that my voluntary lasts longer than five minutes - does there need to be such a rush for the coffee queue?!
The best solution where you can play really serious music is where those who want to gossip have somewhere they can disappear to and leave those who want to listen to do so. Cathedrals probably manage this better than most simply because of their layout - I was as Southwell Minster for Evensong on the Feast of Pentecost some weeks back and the Organ Scholar played the Durufle 'Veni Creator' - Prelude, Adagio and Choral Varie. This was a quite wonderful conclusion to the service, and most people who didn't want to stay disappeared pretty quickly, leaving a group of us to enjoy this in peace, including the Rector Chori! If only....
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Vox raises some very interesting points about worship glorifying God. What follows is not entirely in the spirit of this thread (its not Evensong and its from a Cathedral!), but still...
I happened to be in Glasgow last weekend and attended the Sung Eucharist at St Mary's Episcopal Cathedral on Sunday morning (as my friend who lives in Glasgow calls it, the church for the 'repressed English people!'). What I found was an incredibly well ordered act of worship which to me drew you wonderfully into God's presence. Unsurprisingly, the music played no small part in this; the choir were excellent and sang Darke in E (perhaps not 'great' music in the wider sense of the word, but a fine setting in the Anglican tradition) and Gorecki's 'Totus tuus' which was new to me and really showed what they were capable of in terms of control and ensemble. We had the 'Dorian' Toccata to finish. The entire service was printed in one booklet (including the full harmony of the hymns, although regrettably the readings weren't printed) - this enabled the service to flow without unnecessary interruption. They were celebrating the Visitation of Mary (transferred to the Sunday) which meant there were some great Marian hymns ('Tell out my soul', 'Ye who own the faith of Jesus', 'Sing we of the blessed Mother' and a new John Bell hymn which I quite enjoyed - he was in the congregation so I guess they had to!). The organist really let the leash off in the last verses and you felt compelled to raise your voice, including planting a mighty 32' reed underneath the last line for two of the hymns (and the last chord of the Darke Gloria), which made the inner child in me happy!
Of course, much of this is personal preference and taste, but my overriding impression from start to finish was of a truly uplifting act of worship in which word, music and sacrament were linked together beautifully and combined to the glory of God. I trust that worship here is always this good, and I have no reason to doubt it. I do value many aspects of Parish Church worship, as messy and imperfect as it can be at times, but this was a really refreshing reminder of just how good worship can be. Were that more churches offered an experience like this on a Sunday morning.
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I bought these last Autumn and only ever played the first, 'Rorate Coeli', which is lovely indeed. However, considering they are on Amazon for about £4.50 with free delivery you can't go wrong even if you play just one of them. I probably will invest some time in them...eventually! The perennial problem of having too much music in the cupboard! These are 20th century French, approachable and cheap to buy - what a rare combination indeed!!
For the record, my lot are getting Tambling 'Shine Jesus Shine' from the OUP Lent & Easter book tomorrow (with apologies to pcnd!). I also like Denis Bedard's 'Veni Creator' - the last of his '6 Paraphrases Gregoriennes' - another nice set which aren't at all difficult.
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RSCM publish a version which has been arranged for organ quite simply (well, as simply as it gets with this piece!) which I use.
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Incantation pour un jour saint?
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Thanks again for all the suggestions, which have given me much food for thought. Having already bought Novello Book 2 some while ago, my first conquest has been the BWV 549 Prelude which I will use tonight at St Marys, Nottingham. The Fugue still needs a bit of work - I find the ending a little strange but otherwise enjoy it.
I was looking at the lists in the Novello books and the pieces suggested above seem to be spread across a number of books, suggesting that maybe the Barenreiter edition (which puts all the P&Fs together) might be better for me. That way I can have a play through many of the suggestions above and work out what I will find easiest to tackle. Of course, I should probably but the 'Orgelbuchlein' as well...
The point about what people find easier is a very interesting one, but one that I fully appreciate, and these things vary from one player to the next. For example, the Dubois Toccata is widely thought to be among the easiest of the French Toccatas but I have never quite been able to get to grips with it, I think because one little mistake throws everything out completely (at least, it does for me!).
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[sorry - this response would probably irritate me if I were Philip - he's asked about a specific, and now I've listed a whole lot of things that are not really what he was asking about!!]
Not at all - as my final sentence regarding associated discussion was intended to suggest. I realise that threads on internet forums (and certainly this one) can frequently go off at tangents!
Already there is much for me to ponder, so thanks to all - further contributions still welcomed, of course. I omitted to mention that I do play the 'Piece d'Orgue' - the first two sections, at any rate - I've never been fussed on the third so haven't bothered!
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I've always regarded Whitlock's Plymouth Suite as having a nautical feel.
Most especially the 'Chanty', of course, although on its own its a bit short. The Toccata is justifiably popular, of course.
There is always the 'Hornpipe Humoresque' by Noel Rawsthorne, which uses the Hornpipe theme but weaves in other tunes (JS Bach, Vivaldi, Arne, Widor). From his 'Dance Suite', 'Line Dance' does a similar thing (with Lord of the Dance and Old MacDonald had a Farm!) although I don't think its currently in print. The former is about 3 minutes long, the latter about 5 minutes. Whether this is the kind of music you are after, I'm not sure!
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Not for the first time, I am hoping to draw on the wider experiences of some of the members of this board in seeking some advice on repertoire.
I have played through most of the 8 Short P&Fs, and have also dabbled in BWV 568 (Prelude in G, with no attached Fugue) and have done some work on the 'St Anne' Fugue, but think it is probably about time I set about learning some more JSB organ music; I play some of the Chorale Preludes (Nun komm - the first one, Wachet Auf etc) but would like to tackle some of the 'Great' Prelude and Fugues.
My question then - what is a good starting place, in terms of being approachable and particularly worthwhile music to learn? Do any members here have any particular favourites which they would commend to me?
I realise there is also a question of which editions you use to play them - previously I have bought Novello but I realise they are not the most scholarly editions which exist. Clearly much can be downloaded from the IMSLP website - is this sufficiently reliable or should I look at buying printed scores?
Any advice gratefully received and any associated discussion welcomed with interest.
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I thought this was an excellent service and the music equally so, nicely chosen and performed. I thought the hymn singing sounded very good (in an age when it can certainly be lacklustre), well backed up by the organ which of course is well modelled to accompany on such occasions.
Well done to Andrew Carwood, Simon Johnson and all involved.
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BTW, would any of you experts like to explain why they use multiple players for these things? I'm assuming that any one of them would be perfectly well able to do the lot, so why the musical chairs? Is it just to give the more junior members of staff the experience of the grand state occasion?
I'm not an expert and nothing like as skilled as any of them, but I think its quite right that its shared around and certainly that the organ scholar gets experience of playing at such a service - it should be part of the 'scholar' experience.
Stainer - The Crucifixion
in The Organ
Posted
Thanks for the replies so far.
As for recordings - I've done this (partially) already, and own the Guildford/Barry Rose double set that is described. I did have a listen to it last night, and there are certainly plenty of hints in there, along with moments where the pedal seemed to be used where it wasn't indicated, so perhaps Nick is right. I think I'll probably peruse Spotify as well for some further interpretations.
On a more general point, I guess this brings the argument about whether one should stick slavishly to the markings in an attempt to follow the composer's intentions, or whether it might be prudent to adapt in places. I suppose the former is preferable, but adaptation may be necessary where resources/situations dictate. As Nick says, Stainer may have been more simplistic than he needed to by intention.
I can't say I'd much fancy playing it on a Chamber Organ though! But I agree on the 'King ever glorious' solo, one of the most powerful movements (with the right tenor singing!) and I think it is prudent for the organ to crescendo once the voice has dropped out so that the movement finishes on something near full organ. The Guildford recording has a 32' reed underneath it for most of the last page - this is fine if you can balance with your soloist, and if your organ actually possesses one!