Bevington
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Posts posted by Bevington
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Paul Derrett made a splendid recording of the Weitz Symphony at Hereford Cathedral for Priory many years ago...so he might be able to provide his solution to these questions if you ask him. I think he is currently unable to post to this forum, but an email to him should work. You can contact him via the link on his website - paulderrett.piczo.com/?g=1&cr=6
Regards
Oscar
Thank you very much Oscar - I sent an enquiry via Paul Derrett's email and received a prompt and detailed reply today.
Best wishes
JOR
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Does anyone play the final movement of this symphony - the toccata style movement on 'Stella Maris'? I wondered whether other organists might have an opinion to offer on a possible ambivalence right at the end. I have my fathers copy (dated 'London 1950') which is one of those large sized Chester editions. On page 36, the fourth bar from the end has some possible anomalies, where both hands are set high up the keyboard. During the second beat, the RH has an E flat accidental as does the LH at the same time. On the third and fourth beats the chords contain E but they could be either E natural or E flat, given the style of the harmony. In the next bar, however, the RH has an E natural in the first beat - is it a courtesy accidental, and a natural sign was simply omitted on the previous beats; or are the Es to be natural from this point to the end? Also, the LH has no natural sign at this time - given that the previous E flat would be cancelled because it is a new bar, surely the LH would also contain a 'courtesy' natural sign as the RH does. So should the Es in the fourth bar from the end be natural or flat on the third or fourth beat? Mind you, playing such a flourish of irregular demisemiquaver roulades at fff it probably won't be noticed whether E flat or E natural is played . . . but it's nice for the performer to know!
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I'm trying to track down the Three Royal Fanfares of Sir Arthur Bliss. I was sure they were published in one of the OUP or Novello albums.
Could someone point me in the right direction?
Cheers
James
Three Royal Fanfares and Interludes - Bliss ar Ramsey pub Novello - also available through Allegro Music www.allegro.co.uk
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Slightly returning to the topic perhaps, how do others see the situation where there are three 8' Great diapasons but only one 4' principal? I have no assistant organist, but our newish asst priest plays the organ and does occasional hymns and postludes. Recently I came across him practising a Bach Prelude and Fugue, using a diapason chorus (8, 4, 2, Mix) but based only on the open no 3. Breaking into a cold sweat I hurried out of the building for a strong drink and a breath of fresh air after this damage to my ears. Later, when no-one was around (!) I experimented with this apparent flimsy impersonation of a 1922 Willis. Seriously, however, it did not sound too bad close up (it's an attached console) but was a bit thinnish in the building, despite Sw to mixture being coupled. The 4' seems too big for the OD 3 - but I do not like the combination of the claribel 8 to pad it out, nor using the 4' Flute Ouverte as a perky 4' above the OD 3. So is the OD 3 never intended to support Principal 4' Fifteenth 2 etc? Did Willis intend it more as a quasi viola solo stop, or is it simply a matter of 'use your ears ' (fair enough advice) or would a builder like Willis have specifically set the principal 4' only to be part of a chorus using either (both) of OD 1 or OD 2?
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Well, I'm playing the first movement of the Elgar sonata in a concert next month and I'm going to use the Large Open for that! It does sound right.
I haven't yet played any Bach with it yet - even the end of a Fugue.
I think Venning makes an interesting point; My 1922 Willis has three Great OD's. A few years ago, a concert organist - and yes, playing Bach - was frustrated with the balance of the Great diapason chorus, which he had based on the Open II alone. Eventually he said "well perhaps I should play this organ the way it is meant to be played". On went the big OD I and the chorus was suddenly full and ringing. It seems to support the mixture better - which has a third/sesquialtera rank in it (or a bee fart mixture as a rude baroque enthusiast describes them) better than the thinner II and III.
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If I remember correctly, when Justason took his ARCO exams a couple of years ago he, and all the other candidates were explicitly instructed by the RCO NOT to attempt to arrange additional practice times on the exam organ. I believe the intent is that everyone gets the same amount of time to familiarise themselves with the instrument and thus there is a level playing field.
JOR will need to do his three weeks of intensive practice elsewhere.
A couple of things that might be useful; I remember there being a leaflet about the organ at the church, which J~son found pretty much told him how to register his exam pieces. (Unfortunately, he didn't read it until after his exam.) Also, there is a clip of him practising his pieces on the exam organ at St Barnabus, on YouTube. If JOR (or anyone) wants the link, please PM me.
J
Thanks . . . um "PM" means . . . .
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It's many years ago that a local evangelical church had visitors from Czechoslovakia, so the minister prayed for everyone, black and white, and especially the Czechs.
Also some many years ago now, the Anglican cathedral in Melbourne had 'Sons of the Nuns of Chester' listed as a processional, instead of 'Song', not to mention a previous organist who surely deliberately chose Canticles by Brewer for an AA service.
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Just out of interest, can anyone who has actually played the existing Van den Heuvel instrument state what is wrong with it, or hazard a guess as to why a fairly high-profile - and not very old - organ is to be replaced completely?
From a downunders point of view, why DO the English seem to seek so many 'European' instruments (being politically correct there)? In Australia we have few really good builders and enjoy UK offcasts - I have a 1922, 3 manual Willis and an 1845 single manual Bevington in my church - incidentally installed by UK builders. Beautiful and much admired instruments. Some UK (church organ) specifications - gleaned from magazines and the like - seem to be far removed from being good for much more than providing for performance of a limited repertoire. And then - and we are getting this here now too - it seems that if pipes are too expensive we compromise the integrityof the pipe organ by greedily adding digital stops.
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OK, at the risk of being deliberately provocative, I'm going to suggest that the 4 broad areas for giving a firm a job are sound, money, friends and nods and 'salesmanship'. At this level I'm not including quality of workmanship because that should be a given. Money here is clearly not a primary issue. As far as connections go, only the people involved know whether they have them or not, so we're down to talking about sound.
This is where in the context of this forum I get particularly provocative. Where is there a British builder who can, in their recent repertoire, demonstrate an organ with the sound of a typical modern Kuhn instrument, assuming that that is the sound which the RAM have asked for. There is a trade off in some customer's minds for the direction in which British organ building is currently going, and this may be an example of it.
If there's a general collective direction and production of Hillocks and Willisons, you'll entertain the possibility of going elsewhere if that's not what you want.
AJS
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One can become so stuck with exam guidelines and text books that the obvious is not apparent until someone else makes a suggestion: with piles of music around the place it makes perfect sense to use everything in sight for transposition, sight-reading, score reading etc. The advice not to play anything in its orginal key can provide interesting moments! I have managed to alarm some vocal students by changing the key of every song in a lesson - "good for us both" I said! I usually tell my choir if an unaccompanied setting or anthem is to be done in a different key, but just recently at rehearsal I confess to enjoying some mischievous pleasure by running through some music in keys other than the printed version without a word . . . and seeing some puzzled looks from some who have a good sense of pitch and can tell that something is different, but not exactly what. Some guess and give me a strange look.
How easy is it to gain organ practise time/venue for someone doing an exam? I mentioned earlier that I am the only organist in an Australian town of 18 000: but my father is English and still has a sister (the ubiquitous elderly aunt) in the Streatham area, Sth London. What I have in mind is a three week period where some fairly intense final work would be needed.
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I have used various items from time to time with pupils and for myself. I would absolutely agree that real music is the best, the advantage too is, if you have to buy it, you have something to play at a later date. For straightforward two save transposition, with a twist, the Bach-Reimenschnieder Chorals are excellent, because they offer a tougher standard than would be expected from most ARCO standard tests. For real pieces, a good starting point are the Healey Willan Hymn Preludes, which are all on 3-staves. The best advice I ever got was to push the standard well beyond what is expected, i.e. difficult 3-stave pieces, harder transpositions (more than a tone), and for score reading lots of stuff with C-clefs and more than four parts. If you feel really adventurous, score read orchestral scores, I was made to do this at college, but it is hard if you are not used to reading orchestral scores. At one point I transposed every hymn I played, just for practice, normally up though, as most of the tunes were too low for a choir to sing!
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Well I must thank you all very much for such wide ranging and useful advice and ideas. Like many organists, transposition and score reading occur in various ways as a regular part of the weekly round, but it fascinates me that sitting down with a book of exercises seems to awaken a subconscious anxiety of getting it wrong, compared with the perhaps more straightforward stuff that is dealt with for rehearsals and services. Perhaps it is the memory and familiarity giving false confidence? I am downgrading my postludes for a couple of months into the 'easy to revise/learn' category to allow more practise time on these various skills - I was told that I should spend at least half of my available organ practice time practising transposition and score reading.
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The Werrner Icking Music Archive and the International Music Score Library Project (IMSLP) offer free downloads of music over a very wide range, and I am sure than you could find a lot of music on these sites for transposition - by the way, are you working towards an exam or is this for personal satisfaction? Whatever, good luck (and welcome to this forum!)
Peter
Thanks Peter, and for such a quick reply! I have briefly checked the suggested sites and there is certainly stuff that is of use. I am indeed working for an exam: did a music degree 20+ years ago, but various skills need considerable revising to reach exam standard. It's funny how one can comfortably score read in a choir rehearsal, or transpose, but to sit and test yourself with an exam style exercise creates such different expectations. Also, as I mentioned, I am the only organist in a rural town of 18 000, the nearest capital city being three hours away, so one really has to be self motivated and disciplined.
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I wonder if anyone can suggest, please, whether there are any websites with free downloadable transposition exercises for organists? I have gone through my Sumsion, Wilkinson, Lang, Hunt (etc) books and have started them over again. Hymnbooks tend to have too much that is familiar for a church organist. I need fresh material, although I suppose Bach chorales would provide some challenges! There is no real music shop in the town where I live - in fact in a town of 18 000 I am the only organist and have the only church choir . . . but where I am organist I can at least enjoy practising on either a 1922, 40 stop Willis, and a single manual 1845 Bevington. It's amazing what kind of instruments reach Australia! The 'free downloadable' part is because I am basically a freelance professional musician, and that can have an interesting effect on income . . . Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Guy Weitz Organ Symphony
in The Organ
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I agree Malcolm - I am not familiar with any previous posts on the subject of Weitz, but there is no doubt that his music needs someone to promote it anew. Checking on musicroom I found a good representation of his major works available, so there is every opportunity! Certainly requires some diligent practise, but it's well worth the effort and in terms of musical quality, most of it is up there with the best.