notebasher
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Posts posted by notebasher
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I have to admit I did find the post about Iceland a little amusing!!!!
Barrie
So did I; rather more so than when I found out we couldn't withdraw our savings...
Ron
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This is not an even slightly recent development. The desire of the present owners to pass the responsibility of this organ on to others has been known about for a good while and I gather that no less an authority than the famous Ian Bell has been advising the council (for a fair time now) upon the choice of new home for the instrument. I personally know of at least two possible new homes that have made official contact.
Indeed, it seems to me that there has been some deliberate foot-dragging, since neither of these two sets of folks are either time-wasters or offering unsuitable homes. In both cases, a premier firm would be engaged to restore this historic Cavaille Coll at the same time as giving it a new home. If I know of two sets of people who had independently come forward wishing to re-house the instrument, there will be several more of whom I have not heard.... why the panic, therefore? A decision needs to be made between all these hopefuls, surely.
I remember playing this wonderful instrument very vividly. There is simply nothing like it in this country - I have to say, I don't think even the Cavaille-Coll/Mutin at Farnborough is comparable*. I even applaud the Warrington authorities for recognising its value, accepting that they cannot adequately provide for it and announcing their intention to give someone else the benefit. This contrasts markedly with some owners of large instruments who calmly leave them to rot without a further thought.
*Though if properly restored the Cavaille-Coll/Jardine organ in Manchester Town Hall could get very close.
So what would you recommend - should we sign the Downing Street petition or will that do more harm than good, would you say?
R.
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How about "Cornet"? My organ teacher fell about laughing when I pronounced it "Corrrné" and said that we were in England so let's pronounce as we see it. I asked him how he pronounced the name of the French city L Y O N S? No answer, but my copy of Novello's Music Primer No.3, "The Organ" by one J.Stainer (the book with lovely woodcuts of organs' mechanisms) connected with my left right ear...
Just in passing, the name of the stop numbered 38 on the organ in St John the Apostle, Torquay mentioned above must have casued the odd giggle from students...
P
Try asking a Yorkshire bandsman if he plays a 'corrné' and see what he says...
R
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I was told fairly recently by a Director of Music who has since moved on to St.Chad's that H&H were about to rebuild The Abbey organ (and frankly he ought to know) but I'll believe it when I see it.
That's interesting, because over the past few years Principal Pipe Organs and later Trevor Tipple were two names mentioned as possibles for the work. At the time one of them told me that lack of funds appeared to be a major issue here.
R.
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I knew this organ in the 1960s when the church was in full use and Sam Baker was DOM. And I'd agree it's well worth a visit, yes, as I recall better at the console - the sound didn't really get out due to the organ being stuffed into a chamber.
Another of my favourites in Shrewsbury is the 1911 3-manual Hill at the Abbey Church. Here there's plenty of space around and above it and this to me sounds very good in the church. It was never completed; last time I played it a few years ago it was very tired. The church website says they're planning to rebuild it, but it has said that on and off for years and nothing's happened yet. But worth a visit if you can get on it.
R
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[f good photos both of the instruments and the building they are in.
So, anybody else heard this organ, or played it?
DT
It must have been 8/10 years ago when we stayed overnight in Dijon en route to the Correze and went to Sunday morning Mass at the cathedral. At that time a small notice by a door stated that if you wanted to see the organ, turn up a quarter of an hour prior to Mass. We did, and the organist invited us to stay up in the organ loft for the Mass - the best part of two hours! (special Mass for an archbishop or someone whose last Sunday it was).
The organist was I think Yves Cuenot, who was very friendly and told me a lot about the organ and the work then recently done to it. And a brilliant player. Although the organ is primarily classical in concept the recit is more symphonic in style and sound. I remember the organ caused a lot of controversy in France at the time, as not everyone liked it, and besides it was rebuilt by Gerhard Schmid from Bavaria (not French - shock, horror!). I didn't have opportunity to play it - too many VIPs about and a buffet/party which started in the cathedral straight after Mass - but I thought the sound was absolutely stunning! I have a CD of it somewhere. Well worth a visit if you're within striking distance of Dijon, I'd agree. This organ really cuts the mustard (sorry!).
R
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I took my kids to see Wicked at The Apollo in Victoria last week. Above the auditorium there is a very impressive facade of organ pipes, but on closer inspection, I noticed they had no mouths. I assume this is just a fake organ facade (NPOR doesn't bring anything up)?
This got me thinking; I wonder how many fake facades there are (including empty cases) dotted around. The only two that come to mind are:
1. Durham Cathedral - old case at the West End
2. St Mary's Warwick - one of the chancel cases is completely empty - I think..
Best wishes
Richard
St John, Buxton, South case is empty.
R.
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Ron,
Has it got the Binns Patent adjustable pistons?
Due to the distance and Weddings I am unable to come, but wish you well.
Barrie
Hello Barrie. No it doesn't have that feature, and I can't see any evidence that it ever did (like the setter stopknobs) - unless there's something I've missed. The piston actions were electrified in the 1950s and updated in 1982 when the pedal action was electrified. Manual actions remain pneumatic and the intention is to retain this feature. Spec is unchanged from 1892 - no plans to alter that either.
Sorry you won't be able to come! Hope you're keeping OK.
Ron
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Ron,
Has it got the Binns Patent adjustable pistons?
Due to the distance and Weddings I am unable to come, but wish you well.
Barrie
Hello Barrie. No it doesn't have that feature, and I can't see any evidence that it ever did (like the setter stopknobs) - unless there's something I've missed. The piston actions were electrified in the 1950s and updated in 1982 when the pedal action was electrified. Manual actions remain pneumatic and the intention is to retain this feature. Spec is unchanged from 1892 - no plans to alter that either.
Sorry you won't be able to come! Hope you're keeping OK.
Ron
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Members may be interested in a recital to be given by Harry Bramma on Saturday 20 September at St. Paul's Shipley, West Yorkshire, 7.30 pm. This has been arranged by the Bradford Organists' Association as one of their meetings, but it is an open event and we'd like to get as many as possible to come, hence no admission charge, but a collection. The organ is a very good 3-manual Binns, due for some restoration. See here http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N00083. Currently I play here most Sundays. Be good to see any members who can come. There will be a bar too!
Ron.
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Much as I can enjoy the kind of organs which started this thread, for multum in parvo organ building, Cavaille-Coll takes some beating. No-one suggested this as a possible stop-list:
http://lammert.boeve.org/site4.html
To briefly translate some of the Dutch, all the pipes are on one windchest, and almost all are enclosed. Note the lack of pedal stops, but remember that even in C-C's slightly larger organs (often of 20 or even more stops) the pedal stops are often all borrowed anyway. I have played the organ in the link, its extraordinary. It was sold by some monks in Antwerp who'd had it for nearly a century, because they wanted something neo-baroque.....
OK, this organ has 9 stops, but my memory is that the Clairon is a later addition (it is operated from a pedal next to the swell box).
Greetings
Bazuin
Your post reminded me of this organ, a bit larger admittedly but one I've always enjoyed listening to
Orgue de Chœur, Rouen Cathedral:-
Cet instrument est dû à CAVAILLE-COLL qui, en 1896, l'installait dans le salon d'Albert DUPRE, père de Marcel DUPRE.
Les 11 jeux sont répartis sur 2 claviers manuels de 56 touches et un pédalier de 32 marches.
Les transmissions des notes et des jeux sont mécaniques.
Ce joli petit instrument a été offert à la Cathédrale par Marcel DUPRE en 1945, en remplacement de l'orgue DUCROQUET qu'un bombardement avait détruit en 1944.
La titulaire actuelle de cet instrument est Monika BEUZELIN-DABROWSKA qui succède à Annette AUBERT et à Jules LAMBERT, en poste pendant plus de 60 ans.
Composition :
Grand Orgue
Montre 8
Bourdon 8
Prestant 4
Récit expressif
Cor de nuit 8
Dulciane 8
Unda maris 8
Flûte 4
Trompette 8
Basson-hautbois 8
Pédale
Soubasse 16
Basson 16
http://www.saint-evode.com/3g-nd.htm to listen to this follow the link to Monika Dabrowska-Beuzelin at the bottom. This really is some organ for its size, I particularly enjoyed the playing of Jules Lambert, quite a few years ago now. There could be worse models than this for a small organ IMHO.
R.
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I used to have a very naughty filling out of the famous Stanley Trumpet Voluntary (the one from Op 6 No V) that had lots of nice filled out chords in the left hand and at some points the right hand too. It was published in a volume of Stanley Pieces (I'm fairly certain it was a one composer volume anyway) by OUP in one of their Oxford Organ Music volumes and had the usual sea-green and white stripes alternating on the front with white staves set into the sea-green stripes. It is to my mind, the best non-authentic arrangement (by Henry Ley or Bairstow perhaps but I'm willing to be corrected) that I have come accross, better for my money than for example the one in the Oxford Wedding Albums book. I'm playing at the Kelvingrove Gallery in Glasgow for one of their Sunday Recitals and it seems like an ideal opener to me, but I can not find my copy anywhere. Does anyone know the book I'm after, if it is still in print and where I can get a copy (new or otherwise of it from).
Many thanks,
Charles
I have the OUP/Coleman copy. PM me if you can't get a copy, you can borrow mine. R.
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How unbelievably ......
I hope that, from previous discussion, I haven't given the impression that my church would behave in such a fashion. There is a distinct difference between finding cash to financially sponsor studies, (wonderful though that might be), and allowing for, or in our case it would be encouraging, the use of already existing facilities (the organ) where the extra cost would be negligible.
I can't imagine they would, but if anyone on our PCC, including the Vicar, were to be silly enough even to suggest refusing a pupil the use of the organ, let alone charging for it, there would certainly be a very lively discussion, (one h**l of a row).
Really sad, but not new. when I started organ lessons in the 1950s my local church (which I still attended and had been in the choir until my voice broke) wouldn't let me near the organ. More specifically the 'organist' (a non-pedal playing pianist) wouldn't, and the vicar hadn't the guts to persuade - or tell her - otherwise. So I had to pay another church three miles away for organ practice, where I had my lessons. I always vowed I'd never do that to anyone, and it's really disappointing when it turns out this sort of thing still goes on. After all this time I never knew why, and wonder why such churches expect loyalty. They don't frankly deserve it. Some of these people seem to have no idea of the notion of getting people on board and encouraging them. I have to say that subsequent experiences have mostly been happier, but what do we have to do to alter this? R.
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Perfect timing! I've just bought a pair of suede soled dance shoes from eBay which have no welt and are very pliable. I'll let you know how I get on.
Regards, Oliver.
I was wondering how you managed to get the right size buying off eBay, especially with regard to Colin's point about trying them on first and the difference in sizes. It's bad enough for me with ordinary shoes. Will they take them back if they don't fit, do you know? R
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Or maybe most organists and most clergy are awkward old b*****s.
But I'm not...
Q
Perish the thought...
R.
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moon than get rid of a real live (capable) organist if one were available. And yes, we do allow free use of the organ to learner organists.
I think that it is the endless snipes at clergy (assuming that we are all tarred with the same brush, that we all preach dull sermons, and walk roughshod over our parish colleagues) that do more harm than anything else and cause offense when it really is so un-necessary. Perhaps it's time for the clergy to start whining about ALL those organists who hate us, and who in any case don't bother to practice, and who insist on playing their Victorian hymns too fast or too slow or too high or too low. And who do all their power to be awkward when a <whisper> more modern hymn</whisper> is requested
If this is how clergy see us, it's sad; maybe it's time more of us did something about it. Yes, it's a fact that there are organists who conform to this model; I know of some, but not all of us do, the same way that most clergy aren't control freaks. Almost certainly as usual it's the few that give the rest a bad name, while the majority just get on and do the job. So what can the average parish organist (which is how I would class myself) do something about it, i.e. change perceptions? Any ideas anyone? Or perhaps I'm wrong and most organists are awkward old b*****s. R.
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This is a piece of sheer whimsy, prompted by comments in another thread about the outrageous claims sometimes made by local 'experts'.
Over the years I have lost count of the number of times I have been told that such-and-such an organ was played by Handel. More often than not he also composed "Messiah" at it. I can't remember them all now, but there's one in Plymouth and one in the New Forest - I have details of which ones somewhere - and my last organ at St Thomas (City), Bristol was another. It's all complete bunkum, of course (though at least my organ had a Renatus Harris case.)
I have often wondered just how many organs lay a spurious claim to the same privilege. I have a feeling the list might be quite entertaining.
Don't know, but I once played an organ with a handle; does that count? R.
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About three weeks ago at one of my 'regular' churches the vicar and his wife celebrated their Silver Wedding, so I played the Mendelssohn as the voluntary. Mind, he guessed what was coming and appreciated the joke and the congregation also made the link. R.
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Didn't it also have the delightful Glad that I Live am I? This certainly reminds me of my tme a junior school where we used Songs of Praise. I think Martin Shaw wrote the music but I cannot recall who wrote the words. A short sinple hymn evidently aimed at the younger market but with none of the patronising conceit of today's children's hymns/songs.
Peter
'Glad that I live am I' can be found at SP 499. Music: Geoffrey Shaw, Words: Lizette Woodworth Reese (American poet 1856 - 1935). R.
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Until the mixture breaks...
Paul
Yes OK, point taken, but in this instance the composition indicated by 'Cornetdeschats' is 12.15.17 (presumably at 8' C?) so you wouldn't expect many breaks in it would you? But if it started in the bass as, for example, 17.19.22 you'd expect maybe two breaks and it would then end up as something like 12.15.17. Even then, arguably it's easier to deal with two drawstops rather than one two-stage one (how would you set it on pistons?); you still get a useful separate 2' and there's no reason why you couldn't have a 2 rank tierce mixture to add to complete the chorus, so long as it's voiced as principals for chorus use. R.
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As I understand it, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, the system works with two sliders, one for the single rank, and the other for the rest. Thereby, when you half pull the first slider is drawn, and when you continue to pull the second one is drawn.
Another interesting method of producing a large spec off a small number of ranks, is the either/or principle, mentioned on another thread.
Jonathan
Fascinating. But if the mixture is 12-15-17 why not have one stop-knob for the 15th and another drawing the 12th and 17th? Would that take up any more space on the soundboard? That way you've also got a sesquialtera without the 15th if you want it. R.
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I notice that it says nothing about audio recordings (although presumably the permitted video recordings may include sound). I assume that the organist has agreed to this. (He/she gets £55 for 45 minutes).
True, it doesn't specifically say anything about audio recordings as such, but I can't recall ever being asked for one - plenty of videos, yes, so I would assume they would include sound, they all do nowadays. Well I suppose the organist has agreed to it, but I don't actually know, it's about 45 years since I played the organ there, it was a Nicholson 3m. But a video wedding for £55 ...I don't think so, someone else can have it! R.
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Reading David Harrison's post in the previous topic (Mixed choirs) reminded me of the phenomenon we have all experienced: the late, sometimes very late bride. It scarcely needs stating how annoying this is to all concerned, but does anyone have formal policies with regard to this? Obviously if there are many weddings in one day any one late starting risks losing its "slot", but even in the event of the wedding being the only one that day there is still the matter of courtesy to those who have given up a portion of their Saturday to participate in any way.
How do others deal with this? Does any one have an agreed cut-off point after which they send the choir (and themselves) home?
This one is quite interesting on this subject. See the 'Getting Married' section, the bit just above the horizontal line partway down the page for how someone deals with it. R.
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Perhaps the regular organist is a theatre-organ man.
I find theatre-organ piston-settings quite bizarre, and the last time I played one in public, I reset the pistons as I would a conventional church-organ ie: pp to ff, with the accompaniment-manual pistons set less powerful, so that no 3 (for instance), was supported by no.3 accompaniment etc.
On the Solo, it was possible to set all sorts of special sounds, such as Trumpets and Xylophone, for the percussive splashes of sound, and other equally individual registrations, but still pp to ff, as a matter of logic.
The interesting thing was, that having set these to a spare "memory," one of the regulars said to me, "Oh! That's a good idea. I don't think anyone's ever tried that sort of set-up before."
It's a different world altogether!
On the other hand, the regular organist may be completely clueless.
MM
Two interesting and contrasting theories there MM; I'm certain one of them is correct, but discretion of course forbids me to say which...but no prizes for guessing!!!
R.
Worcester Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted