notebasher
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Posts
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Posts posted by notebasher
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Thanks for suggestions - but I would really like to go and hear it live if I can find a suitable recital.
Yes, absolutely, and it's well worth it. I have to say that the one recital we went to we stumbled on by accident one year in September I think - as I recall it was a wet Sunday afternoon! I can't find a current list of recitals anywhere. We've stayed in the city quite a few times usually on the way back from somewhere else, but got to like Rouen, especially the old part. R.
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I would also like to hear St Ouen - but can't find any information - has anyone got any internet links please?
See http://www.xs4all.nl/~twomusic/concerts/rouen/index.html This has a video 'movie' but it's very short. R.
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Yes, Adrian's photos are a marvellous documentation of an important event. I'm beginning to wish a TV crew had also been following this. I'm sure someone with flair could have made an interesting programme out of this for the general public. Howard Goddall perhaps?
Or maybe even Howard Goodall perhaps?
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Well I'm an avid supporter of Cavaille Coll but his work at St Sernin is not one of my favourites. The 32' Bombarde on the pedals is clearly listed but the bottom octave for me has never been convincing. But then it could be masked by the positively screechy reeds which for me are voiced totally OTT.
Which CC do members like best? R
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Never liked the Cavaille Coll at St Sernin I'm afraid. Comes across as simply too harsh - the reeds especially so. And does it have a real 32' Bombarde?
Yes it does have a 32' Contre bombarde on the pedals. I heard it about four years ago (didn't play it but did play the CC at Caen) and was absolutely bowled over by both organs. But then I always was a bit of a soft touch for anything French. My recollection of S. Sernin is that the jeux de fond in particular were exactly what I expected, and most of them are by CC. Some of the stops are stated to be by Daublaine. R
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Thanks. R.
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Mine came yesterday - rather fun - especially if you are into sonic brain blowing - also with some nice shots of the building. The improvisation from the BBC mag. CD is on there too and some bits and pieces at the end that I have not listened to yet. It also loaded nicely onto my iPod to use later - sermons perhaps! (Sorry Revs. Tony, Patrick, Quentin et al!)
AJJ
I've obviously missed something here. Where would you get this DVD please?
R.
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Hi
I understand that a couple of the Harmoniums from Saltaire are going down for the day - if you go, look out for a black Mustel - I'm not sure which other organ Phil is taking.
If only London was a bit closer (or public transport a more reasonable price).
Every Blessing
Tony
Tony
Maybe you could stow away with the harmoniums (harmonia???)
R.
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I'm sure that could be arranged, but I'd rather do it just after Christmas as things are very busy here in the Autumn term. Any takers??
A
Yes please - it looks as if it will be well worth the trip from the frozen north. R.
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"What do you think might be a suitable level of fee to attract one of the competent players you mention ? "
I do not know the going rate. It seems to vary between £30 and £50 per service. Can anyone enlighten us as to the usual rates please? (As opposed to the scale rates, that appear not to be paid much.)
Of course, it is not just about fees, as so many of us have said on this Board and elsewhere.
There are many able and well qualified organists who will not take posts. It is a combination of factors. Low pay is but one, along with rubbish music, a bad employer, organs in poor condition, unreliable choir attendance and, of course, having to work with a dreadful hymn book (!)
Barry Williams
Around here (West Yorkshire) probably £20 to £30 would be nearer the mark for people playing on an occasional basis. This would be for a Sunday Eucharist or Evensong (but very few do Evensong now). As has been pointed out, one of the factors is the ability of churches to pay.
A village Anglican church where I play once a month has an attendance of typically 10 to 15 people; clearly they cannot afford much. The other Sundays are done by 'reluctants' and I don't know what they are paid. The priest in charge considers they are lucky to get anyone to play every Sunday. At the last urban church where I held an organist's post the attendance fell from 70 -80 in the 1980s to c.20 two years ago. This is not atypical as far as I can ascertain, but does go some way to explain why pay often is low and fails to attract committed people. It doesn't solve it, any more than it solves some of the other issues you raise Barry.
As for able players who won't take posts partly because of other factors you have identified - broadly, condition of service, could this be a case of chickens coming home to roost?
R
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Well I might offer him ten quid for that as well when he doesn't manage to sell it either
So much? Offer him a fiver and spend the rest on a half-decent bottle of wine from Tescos, I would.
R.
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Acute accents, on a PC, are particularly simple: just Alt-Gr + the vowel. Alt-Gr is the key to the right of the space bar. And you can put a messed-up post right by clicking the Edit button on it...
Paul
Thanks Paul!
R.
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Yes - according to the seller it is a collection of approximately 80 brochures, leaflets and recital programmes
which have been bound into a single volume. Possibly some interesting items in there but far from being an
"Organ Building Archive".
I would rather like to have that Binns leaflet / brochure, but not at that price.
I might make a much more modest offer on the item when it fails to sell for its current asking price.
The same seller's also offering twelve bound volumes of 'The Organ' from 1920 onwards, ref. 130207874228 'at a buy it now' price of £120...
R.
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R.
Sorry, made a bit of a pig's ear of that post.
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And to you Peter.
What organ music are the members of this board playing?
Or indeed, what are their choirs singing?
Church I'm playing at tomorrow are singing the Ley 'The strife is o'er' - voluntary is the Guilmant 'Paraphrase sur un Choeur de Judas Maccabee de Handel' to mirror the last hymn. [How can I make this thing put an acute accent in - anyone know??]
Happy Easter to everyone! And I'm retiring from my day job next week too!
R.
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After viewing the pictures, I was left thinking "Why?"....
My wife says that it looks as if the console is supported by a Zimmer frame!
Tell me I'm thick if you like, but I can't see where you put your music. Someone must know!
R.
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There have been quite a few consoles with illuminated stop buttons on the continent in the last 20 years. The main complaint is that you have to make the same action to turn the stop on as you do to turn it off, and really need to look to find the stop. Often they are placed far too close together. So as well as the fact that Organists are used to using drawstops or tabs, the illuminated buttons have several ergonomic problems. Quite apart from looking ugly (well the ones I've seen so far).
I came across a toaster about 18 months ago with something very like this. You pushed the stop down to turn it on, it sprung back to the centre and lit up. OK except that about 6 of the lights weren't working which meant it was impossible to tell whether these stops were on or off. It was a funeral and all I could do was cancel everything, set up the pistons and stick to them. Good job I got there early...
R
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No!
MM
Or maybe 'A l'eau. C'est l'heure!' as the late Miles Kington allegedly claimed was the French Navy slogan...!??
R.
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Yes - of course I would. My point was that this is not something which everyone feels capable of undertaking. Neither is it quite the same as accompanying a congregation singing a hymn. Even if one is talking about an anthem (as opposed to a psalm, for example), there may be changes of speed and possibly frequent changes in registration. It would normally be necessary to watch a conductor; it would also be necessary to listen to the choir, to assess the balance of the ensemble as one was playing and to adjust the dynamic levels of the organ as appropriate. All these and other skills require time, experience and a good ear (and a good sense of tone-colour) in order to achieve a satisfying performance.
Now I would not suggest that accompanying hymns is a walk-over, but it is possible for a relatively inexperienced person to do less damage whilst engaged in this latter activity.
Whilst agreeing with what you say, I wouldn't expect this to be such an issue at churches where there is the standard of music you suggest (choir, anthems, psalms), where the DoM would, one would hope, have the judgement not to expect an inexperienced player to take on too much. Where I can see it being an issue is where the sole organist is a reluctant, possibly with no training, where the church could - often in desperation - exert pressure on an inexperienced player to help out, and this could be a real disincentive if it all goes wrong. But at least in this situation in most cases hymn playing is probably all that would be expected. Again it's back to how to maintain people's motivation and not lose them isn't it? I would put my money on the sort of church you describe.
R.
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On the other hand, this could be quite daunting for someone who had not been playing for long and who had little (or no) experience of accompanying a choir - obviously this is not something which can be learnt in two to three weeks.
It could also be rather daunting for the choir.
Would you not expect an organ teacher to offer some guidance on this? Mine did, and went out of his way to start me when he felt I was up to it.
R.
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To get back to "Breslau", this is one of a number of tunes where one's idea of how it goes is coloured by whether you grew up in an AMR environment as opposed to EH. In AMR the tune is written out in 4/2 time with the last chord at the half way point actually printed as a semibreve - ie. a 2-beat note. As each line of the tune starts on the ana crusis this makes little musical sense and hence this has generally been treated as either a 3-beat note or a 2-beat note followed by a 1-beat breath. As a child of AMR myself I find this by far the more singable way to play this tune as the congregation do need time to breathe.
There are many other examples where AMR printed more singable versions of tunes than the equivalent in EH, even though EH was almost certainly more historically correct. In CP, which I think is a superb hymn book, the EH versions have generally been brought back, but I suspect that there are many organists who, like myself, will stick to the AMR rhythms. The tune "Bristol" (Hark the glad sound) is another good example. In EH and now CP each line starts and ends with a 2-beat note, whereas in AMR all notes are 1-beat except at the end of the second line (the half way point) where a 3-beat notes occurs. I find this far more natural and more fluent to sing.
As it happens I had to play Breslau last night. I have found over many years of trying all the various ways that 2 beats between playover and start of v.1, and the same between the verses works for most choirs and congregations and most traditional hymns (but not all the more modern ones!). That's assuming you want them to start singing the verse with the organ, not 1,2,2 1/2, or whatever beats after you put the chord down! With tunes such as Breslau I do the first two lines in time; at end of line two play the last note as two beats, followed by 1 beat pause to breathe, and the last note of the verse = 3 beats (+ 2 beats rest between verses). This works if you take the tune at a reasonable speed e.g. 84/96. No rallentandos except on the last bar of the last verse. It makes a real difference if you're a singer how you approach all this! The only way to take a tune like this in strict time is to do it so slowly that everyone falls asleep out of boredom - is that what we want?
R.
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I should have thought it would be fairly easy to find a home for the Hunter. I am looking for a large two manual for a beautiful (and quite resonant) church in Norfolk, but sadly, this is not quite big enough. For the past three months I have been looking through lists of redundant organs on the internet, but haven't found a single one that is suitable.
If anyone knows of a good quality large two or three manual for disposal with tracker action to manuals, I should be delighted to hear from them. It is often difficult to find a home for a redundant organ because it is either far too large for its new home or it has been spoilt by later unsuitable additions and alterations. Sometimes, of course, the organ may just be of inferior quality. I hope I am not in breach of the forum's rules by blatantly 'advertising' for an organ, but I feel as strongly as anyone about the preservation of decent pipe organs.
RobH
I've sent PM re an organ that might interest you.
R.
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A cautionary tale illustrating the perils of over-enthusiastic hand registration on old organs...
Our organist came from Lahor
Alas he now plays here no more
Grabbed fast for a flute
Out the stop knob did shoot
And he fell twenty feet to the floor.
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Brilliant.
: Any other limericks anyone ?
An organist lived in Belsize
Who found incense obscured both his eyes.
Oh such a chore,
He could not read the score
So he just had to improvise.
:
Set Free
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Something very similar happened to me last Sunday evening acting as the visiting organist at a Leeds church, where the build up of the great pistons was unusual to say the least. The mixture came on about piston 4, but went off on 5, various couplers came and went for no apparent reason - well, not apparent to me. The swell was even worse: full swell only went up to the oboe (there was a cornopean, in tune, not set on any piston) and one of the softer settings included the tremulant! It really did! To be honest it was a nightmare; I couldn't find out how to re-set the things (lack of time), so had to resort to hand registration as the only option. R.