Justadad
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Posts posted by Justadad
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Dear Gentlefolk
Thank you all for your various contributions.
I’m sorry this enquiry comes so late in the day. There are reasons for it but it would not be appropriate to voice them publicly.
I have ordered a copy of Fenner Douglass’ treatise but it won’t be here much before Wednesday and the exam is on Friday.
I’ve posted a couple of recordings here:
A http://www.mindsci-clinic.com/Clerambault01.wav
B http://www.mindsci-clinic.com/Clerambault02.wav
(They’re both about 30MB so will take a while to download.)
I’ve had sensible warnings about publishing Lawrence doing anything less that 100% professional lest it come back to haunt him later, so I shall just leave these in place for a few days and then remove them. But if you have a chance to listen to them and offer a preference it would be very helpful. At this stage we’re really down to choosing between A and B because there is no possibility of having any further time on the organ prior to the exam.
Best wishes
barry
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Hi
Could I pick the assembled brains a little further, please?
I'm way out of my depth here so what I say may be rubbish in which case, please be gentle with me.
Here's the problem.
I think I understand that a 'Cornet' is a collection of ranks including a few mutations, and whilst a 'Cornet Séparé' is a single stop for that collection of sounds, there is no such stop at St Barnabas. The various stops which could be used to make a cornet are on the Choir division.
And so is the Cremona - which whilst I'm told it's really a Clarinet, is the closest thing available to a Cromone (in spelling, at least).
In the music, the Cromone and Cornet swap centre stage until the end when the duet in the manner which reminds me of Wishbone Ash's twin lead guitars. And that means, I think, that they have to be on different divisions. If the Cornet goes to the Choir then the Cromone has to be fashioned out of the Swell (given that the Great is being used for the accompaniment).
The Swell has:
Open Diapason 8'
Chimney Flute 8'
Salicional 8'
Voix Celeste 8'
Principal 4'
Wald Flute 2'
Mixture IV-V
Double Trumpet 16'
Trumpet 8'
Oboe 8'
Clarion 4'
Tremulant
At the moment L is planning to use just the Oboe, plus the Tremulant to make it more Cromoney. I worry that use of the tremulant might be frowned upon as I can't find anything to suggest it might be appropriate.
Pearls of wisdom, please?
Best wishes
barry
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Dear Alastair and Sean
Thank you both so much for your helpful replies and kind words.
Best wishes
barry
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Hi
My son takes his ARCO practical exam next week and his alloted practice time on the organ is tomorrow (Wednesday) afternoon.
One of his pieces is 'Récits de cromone et de cornet séparé en dialogue from Clérambault’s Premier Livre d’Orgue, Suite du Premier Tons'. (http://imslp.net/images/e/ec/Clerambaultorgue.pdf for reference.)
This is the organ: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D03400
Hurford says, in Making Music on the Organ:
"Tierce en taille. Accompaniment: Bourdon 8', Prestant or Flute 4'; or perhaps Bourdons 16' and 8', or perhaps coupled to the Grand Orgue instead, Solo (usually on the Positif): Bourdon 8', Prestant (or Flute) 4', Nazard 2 2/3', Doublette (a fluty principal) 2', Tierce 1 3/5', Larigot 1 1/3'. This combination should be rich and homgenous - like the voice of a solo tenor.
"Chromhorne en taille. Accomapniment: as above. Solo: Chromone 8', Bourdon 8', Prestant (or Flute) 4', and perhaps the Nazard 2 2/3'.
"Dessus, or Récits de chromhorne. This would probably use neither the 4' nor the 2 2/3'. If the Chromhorne is attractive it may even be used on its own. The accompaniment would be Bourdon 8' alone or with the addition of a Flute 4' if the tone of the 8' proved indeterminate or unclear."
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Justadad
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I hope you won't mind an observation from an outsider.
I watched this clip and found it ugly. I also watched the Pincemaille (sp?) and Hakim clips posted by the same person.
It all seems to be like an exercise in playing as many notes as possible, as loudly as possible, as quickly as possible. There's no beauty in it.
I imagine the cognoscenti will be able to point to fantastically clever moments in all these clips and I readily accept I may be far too close to the floor of the aesthetic pyramid to appreciate what I'm hearing, but it's just an ugly noise. Great techinique, no doubt, but where's the music?
I know not all improvisation is like this and have heard wonderful, musical improvisations by Thomas Trotter and David Briggs, so I don't think that improvisation is all about technique and not about taste, but so many of these improvisations seem little more than peacock displays.
Any organist can convince me of their brilliant technique in 20 seconds. After that, I want to know if they are musicians too.
I'd much rather hear, I think, David's 6 soft minutes on Linden Lea.
But that's just a personal view from a non-organist.
J
Here's an interesting one: -
Well, yes. Good point.
But that's like asking if it's an organ forum or a souk.
It's not unreasonable that members should redirect threads about Cambridge College Chapel instruments into philsophical discourse on the movement of interplanetary space dust and the price of a packet of pork scratchings. But neither is it unreasonable to suppose a thread about Cambridge College Chapel organs will have at least a majority of it's content devoted to organs in Cambridge College Chapels.
As it is, one has to read all the contributions to all the threads as it is impossible to know what they might be about from the thread title. It would, of course, be more efficient to have one thread (or section) devoted to chit chat and whimsy rather than all of them. However ...
Some time ago someone suggested a Choir to Pub device. The problem with a Pub section, though, is that the board becomes yet another forum for everyone with something to say about anything to say it, and the focus is lost. This way, at least, the majority of the contributions are organ-related.
ARCO exams tomorrow. Good luck to everyone involved.
J
Is this a "discussion board", or a reference library? -
Google "arp schnitger" and click on 'Images'.
(Sorry if that's too obvious.)
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SCHEDULE 2
Section 189.
Rights in performances: permitted acts
Introductory
1.—(1) The provisions of this Schedule specify acts which may be done in relation to a performance or recording notwithstanding the rights conferred by Part II; they relate only to the question of infringement of those rights and do not affect any other right or obligation restricting the doing of any of the specified acts.
SNIP
Criticism, reviews and news reporting
2.—(1) Fair dealing with a performance or recording—
(a) for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another performance or recording, or of a work, or
( b ) for the purpose of reporting current events,
Or am I reading that wrong?
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga...en_23.htm#sdiv2 refers
I'm sorry if I've misunderstood and misled anyone.
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There's an exemption for 'reporting current events' (Schedule 2, 2. ( 1 ) ( B ) ). Maybe the local radio came under that.
I also had to sign for Songs of Praise and Daily Service (they could use my playing at any other time, no other fee due etc.), but strangely enough, local BBC radio never did this. I can't imagine the rules are any different, but they were a little more freer with the rules. -
Does this mean that for Songs of Praise, Choral Evensong or any royal wedding to be broadcast the BBC has to get the consent of everyone involved, including every member of the congregation (who perform the hymns)?
There is no law that stops you recording copyright music. Section 182(1) Copyright, Designs and Patents Act1988 applies when:
1. You wish to use the recording other than for 'private and domestic' use,
or
2. You do not get consent of the performer(s).
'Private and domestic' means just that and is interpreted strictly. I do not agree with the widely held view that a video recordist paid to take a wedding video is merely an agent of the bride and groom, even if the video is for their own 'private and domestic' use. I say this is a commercial arrangment and outside the exemption. Others take a more liberal view on this point.
Making recorded copies of a church concert for members of the choir to enjoy is, emphatically, not 'private and domestic' and contravenes the Act, even if it is not done commercially.
For the sake of completeness I also mention Section 185 which deals with exclusive rights in recording contracts and under which some modern church music has restrictions. Performing rights last for fifty years from the date of the perfomance in question.
Barry Williams
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Dear All
I have a feeling the answer to the following question might have something of a 'piece of string' element but, nevertheless, here goes ...
How difficult and expensive is it to add a channel-saving facility to an organ which is already well equipped with divisional and general pistons?
And are there any compelling reasons of taste or organ-ethics why such a registration aid should not be added to an organ that wasn't built with one originally?
Best wishes
J
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That's very kind of you, but I hope my present order is made good as I should hate to do time for receiving stolen goods (or anything else, come to think of it)
J
I have a copy which I nicked off an old mate and never returned about 15 years ago. If things don't work out with the current supplier, let me know... -
Thank you so much for that.
They say they have it in their warehouse so I've ordered a copy.
Best wishes
J
You could try this one:http://www.boothsmusic.co.uk/acatalog/Boot...gue_P_1358.html
(Scroll about halfway down - the list is alphabetical.)
If you are unsuccessful, let me know and I will try another.
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After days of fruitless internet trawling* (internetting?) I hope you won't mind me seeking help here.
I am under instruction to get a copy of Dorothy Pilling's "Harmonisation of Melodies At The Keyboard, Book One". It is out of print and the publishers, Forsyths, say they don't know when they will print any more.
If anyone has a copy they no longer use or require for their library, please PM me and name your price.
Thanks in advance.
J
I had an order in with Musicroom.com which appears to have it in stock but they cancelled the order because, well, they didn't have it and couldn't get it. I found a guy in London claiming to have a the only copy on the internet in the UK but the site he was offering it through gave him a 1/5 reliability rating and he hasn't replied to my enquiry.
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On the subject of transposition ... what are the most important keys for the working church organist to be able to transpose from and to?
Best wishes
J
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That was trickier than it might have been!
http://www.c-parr.freeserve.co.uk/hcp/muslov.htm is the correct link
J
re my previous post ---apologies---just search for hector c parr
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Apparently the new album, Neon Bible, from the very cool Canadian band, Arcade Fire, features a pipe organ on several tracks.
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I wonder if anyone would like to share their experience of the ARCO exam for the benefit of those taking it later in the year. For example, do you think it is better to go for -
Harmonisation, improvisation or figured bass?
The melody based composition in advance or on the day?
Adding parts to a 16th century vocal line or an 18th century keyboard line?
I appreciate that one must go for whatever one is best at or most comfortable with but I've heard it said, for example, that historically people have more success with figured bass than either of the other options. And doing the composition in advance seems so obviously advantageous I can't understand why the alternative is there but guess there must be a good reason for it.
The syllabus is here.
http://www.rco.org.uk/pdfs/Syllabus07-08.pdf#page=11 (You may have to scroll through to page 11 as the bookmark doesn't seem to be working.)
Best wishes
J
(Please can I ask nicely that his thread remain free of debate about the merits of the RCO or the relevance of the content of its exams? Thanks.)
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Hi MM
Whilst looking for something else I stumbled across the original Virgil Fox thread, and I see this debate has been had before. Enough was said there. If I'd known about it at the time I wouldn't have posted the above as it doesn't add anything new.
Best wishes
J
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This is a list L was given:
Faber Early Organ Series Volumes 1-9
Modern Organ Music Book 1 (OUP)
Modern Organ Music Book 2 (OUP)
ALAIN, J. 3 Pieces: Jannequin variations; Le jardin suspendu; Litanies
BACH, J.S. Organ Works (Bärenreiter)
BACH, J.S. 533
BACH, J.S. 534
BACH, J.S. 542i
BACH, J.S. 543i
BACH, J.S. 544
BACH, J.S. 545
BACH, J.S. 546
BACH, J.S. 562
BACH, J.S. 564i
BACH, J.S. 572
BACH, J.S. Orgelbüchlein
BACH, J.S. Sonatas Nos 1 and 4
BEETHOVEN, L. v Fünf Stücke für Flötenuhr
BERKELEY, L. Andantino
BONNET, J Variations de Concert
BRAHMS, J. Chorale preludes (Henle ed.)
BRIDGE, F. Adagio (Three pieces for Organ)
BUXTEHUDE, D. Organ Works: Pasacaglia in D minor
BUXTEHUDE, D. Organ Works: Praeludium in C BuxWV137
COUPERIN, F Pièces d’Orgue
DEMESSIEUX, J. Twelve Chorale Preludes
DUPRÉ, M. F minor fugue from Trois Préludes and Fugues Op. 7
DUPRÉ, M. Le Tombeau de Titelouze, Op. 38
DUPRÉ, M. Vêpres du Commun, Op. 18
DURUFLE, M. Fugue sur le thème du Carillon des heures de la Cathédrale de Soissons
DURUFLE, M. Meditation
ELGAR, E. movts from Sonata No. 1 in G
FRANCK, C. Prelude, Fugue and Variation (UMP’s own ed. or new Franck ed.)
FRANCK, C. Trois Chorals: No. 3 in A minor (UMP’s own ed. or new Franck ed.)
HAKIM, N Mariales
HAYDN, J. Eight pieces for musical clocks
HINDEMITH, P. 1st of the 3 Sonatas
HONEGGER, A. (Fugue et) Choral
HOWELLS, H. Psalm Preludes Set 1 No. 1
LANGLAIS, J. Incantation pour un jour Saint
LANGLAIS, J. Suite Brève
LANGLAIS, J. Te Deum from Trois Paraphrases Grégoriennes
LEIGHTON, K. Prelude, Scherzo and Passacaglia
LISZT, F. Prelude & Fugue on BACH (Univeresal)
MATHIAS, W. Invocations
MATHIAS, W. Organ Album
MENDELSSOHN, F. Organ Sonatas (Henle or Novello eds.)
MENDELSSOHN, F. Preludes & Fugues (Henle ed.)
MESSIAEN, O. Apparition de l’Eglise Eternelle
MESSIAEN, O. La Nativité du Seigneur (some movements)
MESSIAEN, O. Le Banquet Céleste
MESSIAEN, O. Offrande au Saint-Sacrement
PEETERS, F. Toccata, Fugue et Hymne sur Ave Maris Stella, Op. 28
PEETERS, F. Variations on an original theme, Op.58
REGER, M Organ Pieces, Op 65, Nos 7-12
REGER, M Organ Pieces, Op 80, Nos 7-12
REGER, M. Benedictus
REGER, M. Introduction and Passacaglia in D minor
REGER, M. Opus 59, Book 1
STANLEY, J. Thirty Voluntaries
SWEELINCK, J.P. Song Variations (Dutch edition)
VIERNE, L. Some “Symphonie” movts
VIERNE, L. 24 Pieces free style Book 2
VIERNE, L. Pièces de Fantaisie, Books 2-4
WIDOR, C.M. Some “Symphonie” movts
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In my ignorance I thought these clips would be great for someone I know who is preparing to play it. So I downloaded them and made a DVD.
He wasn't very complimentary. He started with the toccata. After that he gave the lento a go and then gave up. Specifically, and as far as I could understand his objections were as follows:
Sometimes what you see being played is not what you hear being played. He couldn't account for this. He said it wasn't a synch issue but that sometimes the music would stay at a tempo but the performance would speed up (or vice versa).
Sometimes what is played is not at all what Jongen wrote, but is being made up.
He thought some of the mannerisms were impractical. He didn't like the gesturing generally but everyone is entitled to their style. What he didn't appreciate were unnecessary gestures that made it impossible to play what the composer intended.
And he didn't like, at the end of the lento, the decision to play one handed so the other hand could be used to take off stops.
All in all he found it 'tacky'.
But he thought the strings, and especially the violins were good.
J
Time to post the Virgil Fox link again, I think. I had not realised that all four movements are available online. They are here. The correct order is:Allegro molto
Divertimento
Lento misterioso
Toccata
Incidentally: does anyone agree that there are definite hints of Vaughan Williams in this piece. The end of the divertimento in particular is pure VW.
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Ah, thank you.
I've read the thread. So anything between 100 and 120 depending on the three As, (Action, Acoustic and Agility).
J
This question has come up before:http://web16713.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/discus...post&p=7209
On the face of it, it would seem from the post I have linked above that the older Widor got, the slower he was inclined to take the Toccata.
I gather it is not at all unusual for both composers and performers to end up preferring a slower speed as they become ever more familiar with a piece.
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I've heard it is often played too fast, so what is the correct speed?
J
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Registering Clerambault
in The Organ
Posted
Hi Alistair
Thanks.
He does listen, and appreciates that how it sounds is important. Isn't it easier to be confident, though, going with what you like against a background of knowing what is authentic, than going with what you like in a vacuum? (L was at a festival once where someone played Wachet Auf with a Tuba solo. His argument was that if Bach had had a Tuba available to him Bach might have used it and, anyway, "It sounds good". The judge thought it was inappropriate.)
His other exam pieces are Bach and Messiaen; both idioms which which he is pretty familiar (given his age). The French Classical school is one he is only just beginning to explore. Hence this application for guidance.
Lawrence will gain from exposure and experience, and a visit to Nigel's Summer School is (for several reasons) not only desirable but almost inevitable.
Best wishes
barry