handsoff
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Posts posted by handsoff
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Thank you to all who have replied and especially to Colin for his lucid explanation. I am glad I'm not alone in experiencing or perhaps noticing the apparent pitch change. The idea of a a trompe l'oreille is fascinating but no more difficult to understand or accept than the ocular version.
At least I haven't, to use an old Warwickshire phrase, "gone all yampy"!
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This is quite possibly going to make me sound a bit daft, but that's fine and has been said before!
When listening to recorded music from a building with a long reverberation period I have noticed that after a long and loud chord has been released the pitch of the notes appears to sharpen very slightly as the echo dies away. This isn't particular to any organ, music or building and is independent of the type of media on which the music is played. I can't come up with a rational reason as to why this might be the case and A level physics is too far in the past to help.
Am I hearing things?
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Sorry, I should have specified that it is the C of E. I had 5 booked in the near future...
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It is now announced that weddings may have only the number of people legally required. A priest, the happy(ish) couple and two witnesses.
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The BBC is reporting that all collective public worship is suspended UFN. Weddings and funerals may be held.
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6 hours ago, Lausanne said:
For a start zinc is produced in rolls but the width of the roll is not 32' ! So either the sheet has to be unrolled and then rolled at 90° to make a tube or the pipe made in several short sections.
If I remember correctly the metal open 32' at York Minster appears to have been made in this way. I recall thinking, a bit irreverently, that the pipes resembled dustbins welded together. They had been painted into a stone colour and matched the Minster's pillars quite effectively.
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Oops, I do indeed - church architecture often foxes me!
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I visited Pershore Abbey this morning. The work to accomodate the new organ in the North Transept is underway with scaffolding towers in place and several men making progress with the job. There is an update from Francesco Ruffati on display stating that the work within their factory is ahead of schedule with many of the metal pipes having already been produced. The wooden pipes are next to be tackled. There is an "adopt a pipe" scheme available for anyone wishing to help with the cost. Details should be available on the Friends' website or you can visit their office just around the corner in Broad Street.
The location of the organ is quite unusual being towards the West end of the transept but on having a good look around it really appears to be the only place available without some piece or other of beautiful stained glass being obscured, especially those at the West end. I'm not 100% sure but I think that the speakers for the current electronic instrument are on the same side as the new organ but in the galleries a bit further East. The console is currently on the South side which would currently give a decent sound to the organist so maybe the new one will be similarly placed.
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Thank you for the replies.
The church in question with the music group has the same 4 or 5 players who, since the regular organist retired, play for all Sunday services where music is required and also for carols and harvest extras.
It is a very pretty building in a classic black & white village setting so is popular for weddings and as the village has quite a large population of older inhabitants there are quite a few funerals for all of which I play unless recorded or no music is the preference. There hasn't been a single occasion for which the music group has been requested; the organ apparently being regarded as more traditional and, as one family told me when discussing music, "the right thing to have". On one occasion a deceased person had been an enthusiastic member of the more evangelical style of service held there and accompanied by the group for years but had stipulated that he wanted the hymns and voluntaries played on the organ.
I had wondered if this situation was the norm and am really interested to hear that it may, albeit on a small sample, be in a minority. Perhaps the setting in a pretty location is a factor. It certainly isn't due to any perceived competence on the part of the organist!
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I currently play the organ for 3 out of 4 churches in our benefice, one of them regularly and the other two on as-required basis, largely for weddings and funerals plus harvest, general (5th Sunday if there is one) benefice and carol services in one of the two. The other of the two has a music group for the Sunday morning services, consisting of, as far as I know, piano/electronic keyboard, guitars and flute.
I have never heard of the music group being asked to play for a wedding or funeral and if for whatever reason the organ is not desired recorded music is usually played. On rare occasions, especially for weddings, the family has asked musicians of their acquaintance, not the regular music group, to accompany the service rather than have the organ played.
I should be interested to hear if any members have known a church music group play for weddings and funerals as part of their general duties rather than by special request or is it more likely that a local organist be asked to come along as a one-off?
Just wondering...
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In the 1980s the company for which I worked bought some IBM desktop PCs for "selected" staff and arranged for us to have some training in the IBM Basic programming language.
As part of the the work-based applications which sent a "beep" if an input error was made I discovered that my PC had a very simple sound card and speaker. As a bit of fun I wrote a simple program which played frequencies ranging from x to y where each was set from an input menu. Mainly with the aim of annoying people I set it to gradually descend from 30 khz to 15khz and see whom from the year's intake of actuarial students I mentored picked up the sound and roughly where in the selected range.
The results from just watching their reactions were actually quite interesting and during a couple of lunch breaks it was possible to talk to the youngsters, aged 21 - 23, and correlate very roughly their sensitivity to high frequencies with their student lifestyles while at university. It became obvious that 1 or 2 of them who had frequented what I probably referred to as pop concerts and nightclubs did have quite badly attenuated hearing in the higher ranges and I inferred that the two were not unconnected.
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The very informal carol service at church A - the first 3 phrases of that Toccata in D minor which then morphed into "It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like Christmas". It went down a treat!
The more traditional carol service at church B - "Nowell! Nowell! Christus Natus Est", by Andrew Fletcher.
Christmas Morning at church B - "A Roundelay for Christmas Day", Stanley Vann.
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BR..illiant!!👍 👍
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3 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:
But I should admit that my predilection for mechanical pocket watches is because I just like them, and sometimes they actually come in useful!
I quite agree. I love mechanical watches and have several, of both pocket and wrist varieties with an especial fondness for those of the latter with automatic winding movements although the winder boxes take up too much space (apparently!).
No Patek Philippe yet but I'm working on it... 🙏
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13 hours ago, mjgrieveson said:
Thank you for replying - it's good to know that if the vicar can't muster another bugler by Sunday, I will not be the only one sitting at an organ pretending to be something else!
I bet I'm the only one who will be pretending to be an organist!🙄
I've just recovered the feeling in my hands and feet after a practice session and have found that the Open Diapason + Larigot with the box closed sounds good - there's no point in me trying to imitate a brass instrument and feel that the plaintive sound of the above combination will be appropriate. I shall play Thaxted for a short voluntary after the service and shall use, for the second playover, the OD alone in the closed box and draw the Larigot (twice, pause and twice again) on the final chord (having repeated the final phrase so as to end on Middle C) to echo the sound in Dupré's Cortege. It souded effective to me, at least, earlier today.
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I have previously and shall again use a C Major version on my single manual reedless organ on Sunday. In my opinion the key isn't of much importance on such an occasion; the music itself trumping all else and fact that it is being played being paramount. I know nothing of brass instruments' tuning anyway!
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Vox and AJJ. You both are quite correct. The couple's statement to me came over as quite defensive rather than outright arrogant as they know that my own tastes for liturgy, not reflected in the all services for which I play, cease somewhere around Cranmer. The "you'd hate it" phrase, whilst perfectly true did smack of an attitude that they were more in touch with today's church than I, an old-fashioned stick-kicker.
I do though have sympathy with the over-cautious language used by some folk when talking to or about less advantaged people. It's a bit like the way well-meaning enquiries about the health of one we know to be very ill are all too often accompanied with a head leant to one side and a felicitous smile whereas the sufferer may prefer a straightforward question such as "How's the chemo(therapy) making you feel?"
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I recently bumped into a couple whom I know slightly and they asked me if I was still playing the organ. I told them that I was and asked which church they attended, knowing that they had been regulars at a local establishment for years. "The Revival Church at the college", I was told, "You know, the happy-clappies. You'd hate it; bangs, twangs and whistles!" I asked if they objected to the phrase even though they had used it themselves, "No, of course not, that's what we are. It's the snowflakes who butt in and object on our behalf even though we don't know them, like those sighted people who say blind people should be called visually impaired even though the blind person calls themself "blind"".
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11 hours ago, sbarber49 said:
Would permission from the Diocesan Organ Advisor, and a DAC Faculty, not be needed for any changes?
Well yes, but... I know of several small (and possibly some larger...) organs where entirely reversible and non-damaging minor alterations have been carried out as, I'm sure, do many members. Some of these have even been done by quite large tuning companies, dare I say, under the heading of maintenance...
I do take the point though that that is the correct route.
As an off-topic addendum, the church which keeps the hotch-potch organ dry has a roof covered entirely with lead. A small patch over the nave developed a leak and the then rector when asked about going through all the correct channels to have some work done said something along the lines of, "Oh don't! It'll take months, can't Bert (not his real name, words voiced by an actor) from the village do it for the price of a pint or five?" He did. Pragmatism is still alive in the C of E!
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Thank you all very much for your replies which really are fascinating and have sown the germs of some ideas which may not be entirely theoretical. I do like the Dulciana; it's not a bad example of the breed and is useful either on its own or with the Stopped Diapason for use just as Colin Pykett suggested. I should be happier to lose the Claribel Flute and do like the idea of transposing the pipes and temporarily losing the top octave with a view to replacing them later should the experiment work. There is a warehouse full of pipes somewhere in this town...
The pedalboard was a problem for me when first I played the organ after some decades of having my feet on auto-pilot suddenly going in the wrong places through Bottom C being where Bottom F should be found. It finally clicked and all is well now, by and large. I clearly have to pick and choose the music but there is plenty around either for manuals only or with simple pedal parts not going too far north. Hymns are fine with perhaps a bit more looking down than my old teacher would have liked! There is simply nowhere to put more Bourdon pipes. The organ does make a fine sound and is one that I much enjoy playing but do feel that the addition of a 4' Flute would be a great boon. When next it's tuned I shall make sure I am there and have a quiet chat along the lines mentioned. The church has little money but I'd be happy to pay if it's not too much.
The other organ I play more regularly is in the next village and is nowhere near as pleasant. It was apparently cobbled together from odd bits and pieces and has little homogeneity. The OD and Principal sort of blend and the same goes for the SD and 4' Flute. The Piccolo does just about work as itself with the Flutes and as a Fifteenth with the Diapasons. As has been discussed here before the Larigot is a waste of space. Before Trevor Tipple retired I talked to him at some length about it and when his tuner came measurements were taken with a view to it becoming a 12th. Sadly, it wouldn't work through limited space.
The pedalboard was originally, I think, limited compass and shoved to the right but in 1993, according to a memorial plaque, was restored and given electric action. The kick-stick swell pedal was replaced with a balanced device but it is so far to the right that it is most uncomfortable to use so the very efficient box tends to either open or closed - crescendo effects lead to leg cramps! The wind supply is inadequate and long chords on full organ do fade away.
It goes without saying that if any forum member is ever in the area and would like a play on the organs do let me know. There are 2 others in the benefice. 1) A nice 2 manual Hewins/Nicholsons which I play for weddings and funerals, found here and and a very decent Holditch I occasionally play when the village organists aren't available.
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I'll start by saying that my question is purely theoretical and there is no prospect of what I am asking about actually happening so we don't need to worry about the morality of a change or obtaining a faculty. It's just for my own interest.
One of the organs I play regularly is this. It has a really good strong and bright principal chorus which especially with the Fifteenth drawn is excellent for leading a congregation. What I feel the organ is missing is a 4' flute tone to give a little more brightness to quieter music. The 4' Principal + Claribel Flute or Stopped Diapason is OK but the Principal is a bit overpowering. There is no room in the standalone case for more pipes and my question is whether an Octave coupler would, and I repeat in theory only, be possible and would it be expensive? There would be space at the treble end for a drawstop to activate such a coupler. The action is light and positive and the whole organ is well maintained.
Thank you
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I am very sad to hear this news. I didn't know David but did have a couple of very kind PMs from him via this forum offering advice on music choice for an organist of limited skills. His depth of knowledge about organs of all types was both staggering and hugely interesting and I shall miss his contributions enormously.
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Members may be interested to hear David Briggs playing the organ in Llandaff Cathedral via Radio 3 on Wednesday at 7.30pm.
The programme is Saint-Saens, Bach, Widor and Dupré then an interval followed by an improvised symphony based on three Welsh themes.
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On 21/08/2019 at 23:28, pcnd5584 said:
I particularly like the Durham edition. James Lancelot appears entirely at ease on-camera, and he clearly delights in giving what is one of the best 'sound tours' of an organ in the entire series.
One or two musical (but not familiar with organ construction) friends watched it, and found it to be both interesting and informative.
I too have showed some friends including a pianist and a string player, both of whom have in the past been a little disparaging (only in private to me, and that probably reflects my playing!) about organ-playing techniques, part of Thomas Trotter's Birmingham Town Hall DVD and that by Simon Johnson from St Paul's.
They were especially impressed by Simon's narrated version of the Cocker Tuba Tune and said that they honestly didn't realise how much was actually involved in playing a large instrument and what enormous levels of skill and musicianship were clearly involved. They were staggered by the Bonnet Variations and by how one player could possibly perform such an obviously extremely difficult piece and cope with it and at the same time deal with all the registration changes.
The Thalben-Ball Variations for pedals on the BTH DVD simply blew them away as did the Overture to Meistersingers where the pianist picked up on the Cymbelstern, asking where on the earth did the Triangle come from.
Enough to say that they will disparage no more.
It would be good if music colleges had a stock of these DVDs and showed them to all students. Yes, right...
Organ cross-over music
in Organ Music
Posted
There was, during last summer, a busker playing an accordion near the RSC theatre in Stratford-upon-Avon usually playing what I took to be arrangements of Romanian folk songs. He was very accomplished and I usually stopped to listen for a few minutes on the way home from the the gym and made a contribution. One Friday the sound was different and sounded very similar to the sort of improvised toccata that one might expect in a French cathedral after High Mass. I listened, somewhat spellbound, until he finished and then asked what he had been playing. He indicated with broken English and hand gestures that it came from his head into his fingers while he played. He was clearly a real musician and had improvised a well structured and impressive piece of music, far better than I, and I suspect many others, could ever manage.
It was gratifying that he usually had a decent audience who showed their appreciation.