octave_dolce

Had another go on the pedal chords and they don't feel that bad anymore. I haven't had a chance to work out the fingering. My hands are also very small. If I decide to learn this piece later on, I will have to rewrite some of the chords. I am busy with the B major at the moment, which is hard but not too bad.

I always wondered why the 16' foundation stops were not called for in the last section, and always wanted to add them to increase the depth. Another question that I had: What do you think about using 2' and mixture stops in the more powerful sections? On the organ at St. Clothilde, the higher-pitch stops could be on or remain off while the reeds were on. Is this also an interpretive issue for the player?

May I ask: Are the editions by Bonnet and Durufle still in print? I think I've seen Dupre's edition at the local bookstore.

Here are three questions for the many experienced organists on this forum. All of them have to do with Franck's Choral in A Minor. 1) Do you use any 16' foundation stops in the bars marked Largamente? Franck does not provide such an indication, but I have heard some people do it and liked it. 2) Would you modify any of given registration, even if you are playing the piece on any organ that has all the required stops? 3) What did the octaves graves pedals do on the organ at St. Clotilde? I am looking at its stop list as printed in a fairly popular method book. The author shows "Octaves graves (16' couplers): G.O./G.O., Pos./Pos., Rec./Pos.". Are these really subcouplers or do they simply turn the 16' stops on or off? For some reason, I find it very difficult to register this piece properly. The notes are not that hard, but the sounds that I make in the latter half of the piece are simply unsatisfactory.

It's very true that American schools differ greatly in standard. Some schools have very strict requirements, and some don't. Some offer a variety of specialised courses already at the undergraduate level, and some don't. When you come across Master's and doctoral theses, the names of the schools and advisers would probably give you a fairly accurate idea of the quality of the research. You should understand that tertiary education in the US is set up very different from the UK and other Commonwealth countries. Most American schools encourage undergraduates to pursue a general course of study. Although students are usually expected to declare their major(s) by the end of the second year (of a four-year degree), there is a lot of flexibility in choosing one's classes. It is not unusual for students to major in two unrelated areas, e.g. music and astrophysics. This is true in all types of tertiary institutions--research univerisities, conservatories that are affiliated with universities, and small liberal arts colleges. Specialisation doesn't usually happen until the final year of an undergraduate programme or at the Master's level. I wouldn't go as far as saying that an American doctorate is roughly the same standard as an MA in the UK. Particularly in the scholarly study of music, I think the major American universities are far more advanced in their research than their British counterparts. You will see what I mean if you look at the lists of contributors in the top journals in musicology and theory.

How does it work, then? Is the DMus generally an honorary degree bestowed to people who have been exceptional in the field? I see that even schools like Oxford and Cambridge offer PhD programmes.

Interesting. I was under the impression that nowadays in most British universities, PhD and not the DMus is the highest degree awarded to musicology students, which include music historians and theorists. In earlier times, the DMus degree might have been more common. (FYI, there is a much bigger divide between music historians and theorists in North America. To be sure, these are very different subfields.)

Here is the North American view: 1) If an institution offers both PhD and DMus/DMA in composition, the PhD tends to have more rigorous requirements, and therefore takes more time to complete. 2) Most performance programmes offer the DMA degree; PhD is very rare in this subfield. Whether or not a dissertation is required for graduation, the DMA programme in performance tends to take less time to complete than a PhD in other subfields of music. 3) Musicology and theory degrees are always PhD as they are research-oriented. 4) Speaking from a purely academic perspective, a PhD is more highly regarded than a DMA because of the emphasis on research. This is a very broad generalisation.

A musician with mediocre skills in performance can earn a DMus in composition or another subfield in music, right? Also, isn't a DMus degree (or DMA on the other side of the ocean) more of a practical degree, awarded mainly to performers and composers? People who are interested in the theoretical and historical aspects of music study for a PhD, which is regarded more highly than a DMus (or DMA).

Well, there is always the possibility of having earned his DMus in another area of specialisation and playing the organ only as an amateur.

I have very little experience on playing tracker-action instruments. I remember trying one of moderate size (3 manuals, 48 ranks) that was a Baroque replica. The HW was somewhat heavy but not impossible. What really bothered me was that the keys on the HW were not of uniform weight; this was particular noticeable when the manuals were coupled. A few organists have told me that tracker organs that are built properly are not supposed to feel very heavy even when the manuals are coupled. Is this true? Can the weight of the keys be adjusted on a tracker instrument like the keys on an EP instrument? Sorry for another off-topic post. I really don't know very much about organ building.

That's exactly my point. Advanced piano repertoire is far more demanding in terms of speed, dexterity, and muscle endurance. This is not to say that organ is an easier instrument. It is really hard to get the correct articulation and to create an illusion of expressive playing on the organ. But I think these difficulties can be overcome with diligent practice. On the other hand, the difficulties in piano playing cannot be overcome with diligent practice alone; success in piano depends a lot on the player's physique also.

Thanks for the advice, heva. I bought the Dupre Op. 7 score today and read through most of the B major and some of the G minor. Difficult difficult stuff, but they are manageable with careful practice. The manual parts in the B major work aren't as scary as I had imagined. The pedal chords in G minor are tricky. My feet are very small, so it is hard to play the major third interval with one foot.

For most of the pieces that I worked on this past year (such as those mentioned in my original post), I could learn most of the notes in less than a month, but after that, it took months and months to polish the pieces to a point where I feel comfortable playing for others. I have always had the impression that organists, unlike other instrumentalists, are expected to learn and master new pieces to recital standard with minimal practice (as practice time is often limited and difficult to arrange). Moreover, I know a few people who have acquired a huge repertoire after only a couple of years of lessons. I often wonder how they do that without practising more than two to three hours a day.

My main worries about Op. 7 no. 3 are the chords in the pedal toward the end of the prelude. Much of the manual parts reminds me of Durufle's Op. 7, which I have just finished learning.

Ever since I started to play the organ three years ago, I have always felt that technically, advanced piano repertoire is far more demanding than advanced organ repertoire. I am inclined to think that: 1) An advanced pianist can play advanced organ repertoire well with some practice; 2) A mediocre pianist can play advanced organ repertoire well with some practice; 3) But an advanced organist may not be able to handle advanced piano repertoire even with a lot of practice. I know that this post is totally off-topic, but I would like to hear what others think!

Not sure if this is a silly question: How much time does an average organist need in order to learn an advanced piece from scratch and get it ready for a recital? It is a lifetime's work, really, but I want to know if it is reasonable to spend 6-12 months to learn, say, Bach's Trio Sonata No. 2, Mendelssohn's Sonata No. 1, or Durufle's Prelude and Fugue on the Name Alain. I am fairly new to the organ and have been told that it takes a year to learn a Bach trio sonata. I feel like, for other instruments, the general consensus is that a piece is probably inappropriate for the student's technical demand if it takes that long to learn. -------- Here is a related question: For most organ students, practice time on a large instrument is probably very limited. How can one learn to register effectively, refine the articulation, and master the piston changes for a piece in an hour or two? And what do people do when they have to perform a recital program on an unfamiliar instrument? I feel that I can register a piece pretty quickly on a mid-size instrument (40-50 stops), but on a large instrument (70+ stops), I can spend hours and hours trying to come up with convincing registration.

I would like to start learning a piece by Dupre before the end of the summer. Right now I am particularly interested in the following: 1) Prelude and Fugue in B Major, Op. 7 no. 1 2) Prelude and Fugue in G Minor, Op. 7 no. 3 3) Variations sur un vieux Noel, Op. 20 One organist warned me that many students had injured their hands from learning the B-major P & F. Should I take this opinion seriously? How proficient should a student be before tackling any of the above pieces? Which piece would serve best as an introduction to Dupre's music?

I have just heard a recording of this piece and absolutely love it. Not sure if it's beyond my ability, though. How difficult is it? What kinds of technique does it require?

The Oxford Book of Wedding Music includes the Toccata. The score is well laid-out, but depending on your age, you may find the notes a bit too small.