nfortin
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Posts posted by nfortin
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The Murray setting is always a good one to fall back on.
I've never been able to see anything good about it at all. Dreary in extremis.
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There are only a few pieces which I could play from memory - or just about from memory!
However, I've accepted a challenge of doing the Widor Toccata blindfolded at a concert in two weeks time. I'm wondering exactly to go about trying to commit this all to memory, and wondering why I found myself saying yes!
One big difference between being an organist and virtually any other instrumentalist (apart from the piano) is that you don't take your own instrument around with you. When I'm playing away from home I like to mark in the registration changes etc. in my copy, so to play without a copy would mean not only remembering the notes, which should (although in my case may well not) always be the same, but the "organ management" which is bound to be specific to the instrument.
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Adrian,
Great suggestion: count me in! Would be great to get a closer look at the organ and also to meet some other members of this board.
If anyone from the Bristol / Bath axis would be interested in coming I will probably end up hiring a car for the trip so may consider taking anyone from the Bristol / Bath axis if we can arange a meeting point within Central Bristol as I live in Bristol. I will confirm this idea later once we know definately wether the day is going ahead or not.
Dave
Not many main line trains stop between Cheltenham and Birmingham New Street. Anyone wishing to travel up by train from Bristol or further south is welcome to PM me if a lift from Cheltenham station to Worcester would be helpful.
Neil
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It just lacks a Swell Contra Fagotto. (Sorry shouldn't have said this!) R.
Well there's not much point discussing an organ of this type for what it isnt. You could clearly argue that to have both Dulciana 8 and Gamba 8 on a 6 stop choir is unnecessary duplication, but you have to hear the organ in the building to understand the beauty and range of the individual voices. The corno on the choir is amongst the finest examples of a corno or clarinet that I have ever heard.
Daniel Moult played a little adagio (or the like, sorry it was a piece I didn't know) by Lefebre-Wely on Saturday and you would have sworn you were in Paris. (The Bach G-major was less successful, the instrument is unable to project sufficient clarity and brightness from its somewhat hidden location to bring this off.)
I notice that none of the Bristol community have been able to answer my question as to the future well being of this instrument. As I mentioned before, it was clearly in need of tuning, although, perhaps in keeping with the fact that its in a care home, it has to be said that the temperature in the chapel was several degrees above comfortable. It may be hard to justify an alzheimer's charity spending publicly raised funds on maintaining a pipe organ, so does it have a future?
To me it seems similar in some ways to Tenbury. Here we have a wonderful Willis organ, that has, at least to a large extent, survived the cruel "make everything neo-baroque" era, and yet now finds itself something of a red herring. Where does it go from here?
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Actually I think the suggested nominal charge of £10 is far too generous. Considering the amount you'd like to raise for the transept this is a drop in the ocean and you're offering an awful lot for the money. I would suggest that, if it is possible to go ahead with this venture, you suggest a minimum of £10 a head, throw in parking in College Green (first come first served) and it would be worth at least £20.
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This organ is actually at Westbury on Trym, not Bristol. Westbury will find it on the NPOR site. It just lacks a Swell Contra Fagotto. (Sorry shouldn't have said this!) R.
That's rather like saying an organ is in Chelsea, not London. If you look at the addresses for the St. Monica's Trust you'll find that they're all in Bristol and all have Bristol postcodes. I don't think that its unreasonable to expect this organ to be found on a search under "Bristol".
I notice, for example, that a search for "cathedral bristol" includes Clifton Cathedral in its results. By your logic it shouldn't.
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Dare I suggest that this does raise questions as to how NPOR is indexed.
The official location of this instrument is in St. Augustine's Chapel, St. Monica's Home. I tried various searches including:-
- bristol willis
- bristol monica
- bristol augustine
- bristol chapel
none of which find this organ.
A search on
- bristol home
will list it, but this incorrectly shows its location as Badminton. Although the adjacent private school is called 'Badminton School' Badminton is a small village some miles away, nothing whatsoever to do with this organ.
(Incidentally, the Walker organ in the church at Badminton, attached to Badminton House of horse trials fame, is a wonderful instrument of its type. I conducted a choral society concert there last year and it was well able to support "I was glad" and the like.)
- bristol willis
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Sounds like a good day out to me. I'm free on that date and would be very interested.
Regards
Neil
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Many thanks for the additional information. Sadly it seems that the instrument is in nothing like as original a condition as it looks. It sounds remarkably fine considering Percy Daniel's have have their hands on it.
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I attended a concert given by the RSCM Millenium Youth Choir in the chapel in what is now partly a care home run my the St Monica's Trust next to Badminton School on the Clifton Downs yesterday evening. The chapel is quite an impressive space and houses 3-manual Willis organ in what looks like original condition. The organ sounded wonderful, with really lovely soft stops and a beautiful corno on the choir. A tuning visit wouldn't have gone amis though.
Does anyone know much about this instrument - I couldn't find it on NPOR. Is anyone aware as to whether it is likely to be maintained in good condition or is it "at risk"?
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I was watching episode 4 (or was it 5?) of The Jewel in The Crown on dvd the other evening, which is the one with the wedding of Teddy and Susan. No organ I'm afraid but when the couple & chief guests retire to the vesty to sign the register there's a rather splendid rendition of what sounds like a Handel march being played on a harmonium. The standard of playing is far beyond what would be likely in the context of the episode. Anyone know what the piece is and who was the player?
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Ripon? Hereford? Both have "sprawl" in the choir aisles. Salisbury has 32' dull grey tubes and awful aperatus next to it in the North Transept. Admittedly, these are not as messy as Beverley, but the effect to the passer-by (knowledgeable or not) must be heath-robinson-esque!
Best wishes
Richard
I think that's a bit harsh on Hereford, there are a few exposed pedal trombones in the South Aisle, nothing more. Not a great architectural feature I would admit, but hardly "sprawl". The 32' basses at Exeter are more intrusive than these.
What about the apse division at Tewkesbury? Its not near to floor level so may get away with it more easily, but its visual beauty in no way matches its aural quality (which is sublime).
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I'd love to be there but can' t really make it (playing at St Mary Redcliffe on Saturday and have my own church services on Sunday). Will be hoping to pop up on a quieter Sunday afternoon soon...
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OK, I am confused. Given this date, where would that be, Neil? (Gloucester was 1971.)
I'm really not trying to stir things up again, it was just a wry aside. The place I had in mind is just a little further north.
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Willis, as we all know, divided the case, and used the two shallow cases for his organ, and that dictated the shallowness of the swell box. The swell is superb, but the "spice" also comes from relatively small scale pipework voiced to near screaming pitch, much coarseness of which is rolled off by the building, though not all. Another truly stunning Willis Swell (and indeed Great and Pedal etc) is of course Canterbury, not heard to advantage on the screen but certainly thrilling in the Quire. St.Paul's is an interesting sound. IMHO not all of it is due so much to expertise as pure chance. There can be no mistake the pipework is small for the building, and that space was at a premium, possibly dictating scales for a decent specification.
As to the Tubas, yes a very unique sound, not at all what one would expect, warm and rounded, fiery, words fail to describe them. But certainly a splendid and highly unusual timbre, which fitted the building like a glove. At least I heard them live, and can still sit back with my high end hi fi and enjoy them, as so many organs and stops no longer with us.
R
I must admit that all this talk of wonderfully warm and exciting full swell reminds me greatly of another cathedral organ not far from my home, which particularly before it was emasculated c1976 was all that you could possibly ask for. Still, no use crying over spilt milk.
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I'm going to be very, very unfashionable now and say that I'm rather sorry that Huskisson Stubington's scheme never came to fruition. Whilst not a repertoire-based scheme, it would have been a rather marvelous instrument, I suspect. In Stubington's time, to my understanding, the Milton was a bit of a mix-and-match and rather small as the main instrument, the Apse was rather more substantial than it is now (why the reduction in registers?), and the Grove needed renovation (as it did again only a short while after its 1980s renovation). Whilst the Milton has now been made a larger, coherent whole, the Apse has been shorn of much of its pipework, and the Grove (which I found to be a splendid instrument despite its limitations) has languished in the shadow of the Milton.
Well a lot of what you say is true. Pre Kenneth Jones the Milton was a damp squib. A very fine damp squib of some historic interest, but nevertheless a damp squib. The Apse was an absolute delight, In the reworking of the Milton and Apse I would agree that the Apse has lost some of its former character, but certainly overall the combined result is to provide the abbey with a very fine 4-manual instrument, in my opinion by some margin the finest instrument in the county.
The Grove, as I noted in my previous post, is not at concert pitch, therefore Stubington's scheme would have required substantial alteration to the Grove to make it possible.
I rather regret the passing of the old (now owned by cynic) console & loft. It made you feel quite clever to play at such a huge console (where so little was actually connected to anything), and the intimacy of the old loft with its gun-hole openings for visibility into the quire was quite unique.
The problem with the Grove is that is of no possible liturgical purpose. The Abbey is a huge structure for a town of the size Tewkesbury to support and its visitor profile is not great. The Grove has already suffered one long period of silence and repeats of this are IMHO inevitable, Tewkesbury cannot reasonably be expected to pay for the maintenance of an organ which is of no practical purpose. Does not the instrument itself deserve better than its occasional use as an unreliable and difficult recital instrument?
If the Grove is to have a long term future it either needs independent financial support, to keep it in its present location as an historic curiosity, or a new home where it can have a real purpose.
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Yes, I agree. However fine the Grove might sound from the west wall its not right the right thing to do in this building. The sad fact is that the Grove needs a new home. The Abbey is certainly a part of its history, but the reverse is not really true in any meaningful way. The Milton IS the Abbey organ and always has been. The Grove is a curiosity in an imposing setting. It deserves better - it deserves a location where it has a purpose. This it will never find in Tewkesbury.
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I seem to recall there were plans back in the seventies to move the organ to the west end, with a new case designed by the architect, Lawrence King. The late Michael Gillingham advised on the project. I believe there were objections, presumably from the CFC (or whatever it was called in those days) and the case went as far as Consistory Court, but, alas, no further.
Maybe someone else has a more precise recollection.
JS
Yes, I believe it is true that a plan to move the organ to the west end was considered, but rejected because it would have obscured the west window. Messe Solennelle would be problematic however as the Grove is not at concert pitch.
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...and away from the "Great" churches, what about Framlingham
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If we are happy to keep to cases in this country (for the purpose of this thread), then Exeter, Gloucester and Norwich cathedrals are particular favourites. These are, of course, all double cases, facing two ways. I also like the Thomas Jackson case of the instrument at Bath Abbey - which I do not feel has been spoiled by being raised about eighteen inches at the time of the last rebuild.
Whilst I like the detail and overall design of the split cases at Bristol and Saint Paul's cathedrals, I regard it as a shame that both were cut in half. However, there is still an integrity and a noble feeling with both cases.
Exeter and Norwich I would agree are stunning, Bath too. Gloucester I like but find a little too square, if it weren't for the spectacular pipe decoration it would be rather plain. Kings College I very much like and also, in a completely different style, Westminster Abbey. I've not seen St. David's in the flesh since the rebuild (will be playing for a weekend next year though) but seems to photograph well.
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Have now caught up with watching the recording. I found it quite entertaining but not very educational. It seemed to prove once again that whilst, given sufficient time and patience, you can teach technique you can't teach musicianship.
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I've videoed it and not yet had a chance to watch. Sorry to go off at a slight tangent (not for the first time), but is anyone as disgusted as me with The Last Choir Standing? I've had to stop watching it as its bad for my blood pressure.
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I'll go back one day to Tewkesbury.....For the *other* organ!
(Not to say the Milton's isn't "good"!)
Pierre
When were you last in Tewkesbury as a matter of interest, have you heard the Milton & Apse since the Kenneth Jones rebuild? Its a pretty super instrument now, much more imposing than it was in its Walker guise.
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Which church do you play in? Only interested as I know one or two of the churches in Cheltenham.
Dave
I'm DOM at St. Mary's, Charlton Kings. Details available here: www.stmarysmusic.org.uk
St Pauls Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted
Its good to read such glowing comments, but inevitably to suggest that any one instrument is the best in the country is to invite controversy, and clearly tastes differ. I haven't heard St Paul's for some years and, no doubt would love it. But for me, a personal choice, the organ in Westminster Cathdedral is by some margin the outstanding instrument in this country.