DaveHarries
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Posts posted by DaveHarries
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Someone evoked today on another thread the absence of
any UK-built organ in continental europe's Cathedrals.
There isn't a total lack:
Chancel Organ, Stavanger Cathedral, Norway
NP Mander, London, 1995
Dave
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This is like the Clifton Old Boys reunion.
Yes, it is isn't it.
Now, if Dave thinks this 1986 4 rank extension organ was bad, he obviously wasn't around to see its predecessor which was freestanding on the hall floor on the left hand side towards the back....I wasn't around to see this one: I was in the pre. 1990 - 1995.
...it was a 2 manual with the heaviest tracker action I have ever come across when the two manuals were coupled, as they always needed to be to support the singing of several hundred prep school boys. The facade was your basic pipe rack with no decoration...Oh dear!
...and I seem to recall it regularly needed to be cleaned due to all manner of rubbish the boys would drop into the organ from the balcony above.Ah yes. I know the balcony you mean. North Town (house) used that one when I was there. (I started of in Taits house then went into North Town myself.)
....the keys to the kingdom of heaven: the 1911 Harrison (IV/46)in the Upper School Chapel.Yep, definately.
Dave
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.....u seem to think american organs r beasts
have u ever played one?
i play one that is a jewel
it has pipes made in 1900 in usa and england
also many pipes r from 1960 and more recently 1996
it has 4 manuals and 8 departments
2 greats
2 swells
1 choir
1 solo
2 pedals
1 real 32 foot untersatz
every department except one has a mixture
the chorus reeds have german shallots
when i play this organ i am sent to heaven
the sound is ethereal
it is indescribable
u r gravely in error and arrogant to state that american-made pipe organs r beasts
i wouldnt trade the most insignificant one of them for 10 of ur average dutch organs which usually have nothing more than 1 pedal rank a lonely subbas16 and dependent on couplers for any semblence of music from the pedal
I hazard a guess, but is that by some chance the organ of West Point Military Academy?
Dave
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R&D were so keen to continue their connection with this instrument that in the most recent rebuild they (by all accounts) severely undercut all other firms in order to keep it. As it happened, the rebuilding and tonal improvement work turned out particularly well, not least because Geoffrey Morgan kept a very keen eye on them. There is a hillarious story which I'd better not repeat which explains why the tuning contract was then (almost immediately) changed to B.C.Shepherd & Sons. Since their take-over, the Guildford organ has sounded very well.
Oh please? Could I have the story by PM?
BTW, my nomination for the worst organ in the country is that of my old school hall. Here is the specification. Note that the letter before each stop indicates which rank (seeing as this is an extension rank afair) the stop relates to:
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Clifton College Preparatory School, Clifton, Bristol
School Hall || 2 manuals, 17 stops, extension ranks
Pedal:
A Bourdon 16
A Bass Flute 8
B Open Diapason 8
Manual 1
B Double Diapason 16
B Open Diapason 8
C Saliconal 8
A Lieblich Gedackt 8
B Principal 4
B Fifteenth 2 (top 12 notes from A)
Manual 2
C Contra Saliconal 16
A Lieblich Gedackt 8
C Saliconal 8
A Flute 4
A Piccolo 2
D Double Trumpet 16
D Trumpet 8
D Clarion 4
No visible pipes (unless you open the case). Ranks are:
A - Flute (in left case)
B - Diapason (in right case)
C - String (in left case)
D - Reed (in right case)
Builder unknown. Installed in hall 1986 by Percy Daniel, Clevedon and probably came from somewhere in SouthEast England.
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It was as a pupil of the school that I started learning to play the organ and I started on this instrument. My organ teacher at the time was a man by the name of Robert Fielding (who was, I think, organist of Romsey Abbey, Hampshire for a time: I dunno if he is still there). It was he who described this organ as being "a squeezebox" which I thought was about right.
Anyway, after a year or so of learning on the "squeezebox" I took to using the excellent (by all accounts) 4 manual, 46 stop organ (Harrison & Harrison 1911 & 1976, restored 1994) in the school chapel. I did my Grade 2 exam on the chapel organ and it was a good instrument. I believe it still is although I left Clifton College in 1995 and have not been in the chapel since then.
So it is the organ in the school hall (not the chapel!) that I nominate as my least favourite organ.
Dave
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I heard today from a PD employee that he was made redundant yesterday.
Not the kindest timing! ..........
Not the kindest timing at all, as you say.
This announcement has turned up on Percy Daniel's website:
Percy Daniel & Co. Ltd. was purchased by Cawston Organs Ltd. in August, 2005, with Anthony Sack as sole director, and the existing staff retained. Subsequently, on 16th December, 2005, the Company went into adminstration. Any enquiries should be addressed to the Administrator, (.....)Dave
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That is very bad news. I was under the impression that Cawstons would be in the same boat - both firms were taken over by the same person. I heard a lot of the Daniels records were thrown out - nothing short of vandalism.
I agree entirely. Percy Daniels had care of the organ in my local church (St. Mary Magdalene, Stoke Bishop, Bristol) which they had rebuilt in 1979. A very nice instrument which is still in existence.
.....and they did the "face to the customer" part exceptionally well, down almost entirely I suspect to Chris Manners, who will be devastated when he hears of this development.I don't know if Chris Manners is still around. It is possible that he isn't because I did hear some time back that he was in ill health.
I well remember Chris Manners: as a lad of about 11 or 12 years old I had an interest in Organ Building and I did write and ask wether it would be possible for me to have a tour of their works in Beach Avenue because such was my interest in organ building at the time. I wrote the letter and sent it off. About a week later, back came a nice letter from Chris Manners himself saying that he would be happy to show me round. They were working on a organ for a church (I can't remember which one) in Surrey at the time.
That interest led onto other things: in 1994, the organ of the school I was in - Clifton College, Bristol - came up for restoration: a fine instrument largely from 1911. Harrison & Harrison were doing the works and so I wrote back wondering if I could help out for a couple of mornings in one week. That request was successful and I spent a happy couple of mornings lifting the PD Opheclide 16' and other pipes out of the organ under the supervision of Nigel & the team.
If he is still around, Chris Manners will be truly saddened by the liquidation of the company. If he has passed on - which, as I say, is possible - he will be turning in his grave.
But back to Percy Daniel & Co. Their purchase by Cawston Organs marks, almost certainly, the end of an era in West Country organ building. 70 years of organ building from Clevedon have gone at a stroke and are no more.
Before his death in 1955 Mr. Daniel formed a Limited Company, with long-serving members of his staff as Directors, to ensure the continuity of the firm. These original Directors have been succeeded over the years by the present Directors, who between them have been with the Company for over seventy years.The liquidation of PD&co. somewhat desecrates the hopes of Mr. Daniel and his memory, IMO.
What a waste. I can't think of another way to put it and will finish by saying: Dercy Daniel & Co. RIP. +
Dave
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The passing of Noel Mander is, without doubt, the end of an era. I sincerely hope that the firm of Mander Organs and the instruments they have built will live on for many years to come. Noel's greatest monument will, of course, be the beast in St. Paul's Cathedral, London
My condolences to John Mander and other friends & family of Noel.
Dave Harries
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So the NPOR have moved their website to http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/. What do you think? Good or bad?
Personally, the new NPOR is summarised for me as being describable with one word. That word starts with a C and ends in RAP.
Dave
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As Director of Music at a Church with a Daniel rebuilt organ I have a letter from Cawston Organs introducing themselves as having taken over PD's assets and goodwill. According to the letter, all the Daniels staff have been retained and they seem to be operating out of the same office with the same 'phone number.
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I look forward to hearing what Cawstons have to say about my particular instrument which is now heading for middle age (15 years) and is starting to become somewhat temperamental.. I hope also that they now keep their tuning in house. Often our instrument was ineffectively tuned by local subcontractors.
I also look forward to a more responsive relationship with the builder.. so often I asked for information, prices etc. and received very little response in return..
I hear this with a degree of dismay. I have aproached Daniels on a few occasions trying to find an organ for a small chapel and have always had a friendly reply from Chris Manners.
Chris Manners (who has been very poorly and is "nearing retirement") stays on as a consultant.I wish him well in his retirement and wish him a full recovery. I remember him as the man who, at a time wwhen I was young and had an interest in Organ Building (when I was about 7 y.o, I think), gave me a tour around the Clevedon workshop.
..... though I confess to quiet personal glee when I learned they had to be put into liquidation in order for Mr Cawston to complete the transaction.You confess to what you like, mate. I confess to the direct opposite!
Apparantely their horizontal reed and work at whichever Welsh cathedral it is at has been really rather good, and I have seen new instruments of theirs that have some extremely high quality and solid cabinet and electrical work, just less successful tonally.That will be Brecon Cathedral. Choir & Organ did an article after the work on that organ had been done.
Dave
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let me know, its fairly new and I would like some feedback on it!
A bit of self promotion never hurts anybody, apparently!
Richard,
Nice site. I like the Karg-Elert piece in the download section: ages since I had heard that.
Dave
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Hi.
An interesting sounding scenario.
I am not sure what I would do for a case and pipe layout, but the specification I would use would be the same as, if not similar to, the organ of Clifton College Chapel, Bristol.
The organ was originally built by Harrison & Harrison in 1911, incorporating pipework by Father Willis. H&H rebuilt it in 1976-8 and restored it in 1994. Here it is:
Photo from BDOA (Bristol & District Organists Association) website
Web Address: http://www.bdoa.fsnet.co.uk
Whilst a pupil of Clifton College preparatory School (1989 - 1995), I had lessons on this organ and was, by permission of H&H themselves, also allowed to put a couple of mornings work in during the 1994 restoration. A nice organ to play.
Specification (after 1994 restoration) consists of 4 manuals, 46 stops and about 2768 pipes and is as follows:
Pedal:
Open Wood 16
Open Diapason 16
Geigen 16
Subbass 16
Octave Wood 8
Octave Geigen 8
Flute 8
Fifteenth 4
Mixture 15-19-22
Ophicleide 16
Choir:
Double Salicional 16 12 bass from C
Stopped Diapason 8
Principal 4
Flageolet 2
Nasard 1 1/3
Mixture 22-26-29
Great:
Gross Geigen 16
Large Open Diapason 8
Small Open Diapason 8
Hohl Flote 8
Octave 4
Wald Flote 4
Octave Quint 2 2/3
Superoctave 2
Tierce 1 3/5
Mixture 19-22-26-29
Tromba 8
Octave Tromba 4
Swell:
Open Diapason 8
Salicional 8
Vox Angelica 8 Full compass
Lieblich Gedeckt 8
Gemshorn 4
Lieblich Flote 4
Fifteenth 2
Mixture 12-19-22
Double Trumpet 16
Trumpet 8
Oboe 8
Clarion 4
Tremulant (Flues & Oboe only)
Solo:
Viole d'Orchestre 8
Harmonic Flute 8
Concert Flute 4
Orchestral Bassoon 16
Clarinet 8
Tuba 8 (unenclosed)
Tremulant (not to tuba)
The speakers either side of the case on the gallery are nothing to do with the organ. It might, for the benefit of people with no earshot of the organ, be possible to amplify it through the cathedral's speaker system?
I am not much good at thinking up specifications without some kind of influence.
Dave
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Notre Dame in London has some CC in it, but is really a Shepherd mix of other builders and his own work, which actually sounds pretty interesting but incredibly loud. So Warrington and Farnborough (actually Mutin) remain the two key jobs here. There are a few gern argans here too, some very fine.
I have got this organ on tape and it does state that CC did some work there. However, the NPOR (National Pipe Organ Register) gives the history of the organ of N.D-de-F as being:
1868: August Gern
2 manuals, 24 stops
1938: JW Walker
3 manuals, 34 stops, 2131 pipes
1940: Church bombed, organ largely undammaged.
1955: Organ built using only seven stops from 1868 organ with much of the pipework being second hand.
1987: BC Shepherd & Son
3 manuals, 61 stops, 3533 pipes
No mention of CC.
Dave
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Yeah, right mate. We all believe you.
Pratt by name, pratt by nature.
Dave
"However, Mr Price’s modern approach has been defended by the Diocese of Carlisle. Richard Pratt, a Diocesan spokesman, said that their research revealed that as many people had joined as had left St Paul’s because of the changes.....“ -
How about possible nominations? Why not Oxford or Cambridge, say, for a start?
John Sayer
How about Thomas Thamar's 1674 organ in Framlingham, Suffolk?
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History:
1674: Pembroke College, Oxford.
Built by Thomas Thamar (Peterborough). 1 manual, 8 stops, approx. 510 pipes.
1708: St. Michael's, Framlingham, Suffolk.
Organ aquired from Pembroke College, Oxford. Installed in Framlingham by Charles Quarles (organist of Trinity College), Oxford. Specification unaltered.
1896: Alfred Hunter
Organ rebuilt. New Swell & Pedal divisions. Used most of Thamar's pipework on the Great except for the Cornet and Trumpet which he replaced with a Harmonic Flute and Gamba; the Cornet went missing and the Trumpet was lost; the Swell incorporated at least 3 18th century stops.
1970: Bishop & Son
Organ restored. the Cornet was rediscovered in the Rectory attic and repaired, restored and reconstructed; a very old rank of Trumpet pipes was found to replace the lost set; the Swell was matched up to complement the Great and based on its 18th century content; the Pedal was likewise treated; the Cromorne was introduced by John Budgen of Bishop's; a Pedal reed was also added.
Casework date: pre-1630, located in West gallery.
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Could this organ represent us? The Great division is all Thamar pipework except for the Trumpet 8'.
Dave
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If the rumours about the Ally Pally instrument's future are true, could the Barbican be it's new home? A 98 stop Willis is clearly going to take up more space than a 35 stop GD&B and would need a new (non-Victorian!) case, but if removed from the Palace at least the instrument would stay in London and probably be much better used and appreciated.
Are the Ally Pally dispensing of their Willis in favour of GD&B? Or is that a misinterpretation? I have not personally heard any rumours regarding that Willis so if anyone can clarify then I would be glad for it.
Ta.
Dave
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I agree with these sentiments.
I'm reminded of a black n'white photo of Max Reger playing a symphonic organ in Germany-the console lid is piled high with music.
Sloppy organ lofts can of course reflect the incumbent musician or reflect a hard working environment! My church is open each day from 8.30am-5.00pm and as I once had 75% of my repertoire stolen and sold to a second-hand music dealer I do not keep even one album around the console now-its all safely in its storage shelves in the locked Choir Vestry.
I also have a thing about dusty consoles.
Cheers
Michael
75% ??!!
I suppose you didn't get any of it back. Bad luck though.
I used to do organ practive in my local church until someone stole the speakers (three times) and the drumkit (twice). Now the church is largely kept closed and I was forced to give up. Pity.
Dave
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Incidentally, the rebuilt Transept organ now includes an acoustic 64' and some high pressure tubas - although these sound (to me) rather more French than English.
Anyway, it's now way past my bedtime!
The accoustic 64' is, according to the stoplist on Kails' website, called a "Vox Balenae". Never heard of it. What does it sound like?
Dave
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One more thing. For anyone who is interested, Klais are selling a book regarding the new (1998) organ of Cologne Cathedral.
It is called "Ein Hauch, Ein Ton" (A Breath, A note) and retails for 40.00 Euros.
http://www.klais.de/m.php?art=125
Dave
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Apropos your comments concerning Cologne; as far as I know the cathedral still posesses its older four-clavier Klais, skulking in the gloom of the North Choir Aisle. It is true that when I visited a year or two ago, it was partly dismantled and encased in scaffolding, but I was given the impression that it was being overhauled, as opposed to being removed.
I have a recording of the new organ but would like to hear it live. Presumably Herr Ganz does not suffer from vertigo....
For my own taste, Worcester is exciting - and it certainly fills the building. We did not have a full house for Mass, but I only needed to use a small part of the organ in order to accompany the singers. Heard from the West end, whilst the main organ is a little remote; however, the Solo Organ goes a considerable way to alleviating this problem. Certainly the organ seemed more able to cope at a distance than, for example, Salisbury or Winchester.
I am not sure what is happening to the crossing organ. How interesting, though, that an organ of 3 manuals and 53 stops (the 1998 Klais) can do a better job than an organ of 3 manuals, 89 stops (the 1948 Klais).
In Choir & Organ magazine for May/June 2000, Philipp Klais wrote:
"The cathedral suffered severely during the war too, and it became necessary to build a wall separating the nave from the choir so that services could continue in the less damaged and already repaired choir and transept. In this situation, my grandfather built the crossing organ in 1948, an instrument which, with its 89 registers, was never intended to cope with the demands of the entire nave, as this area was not in use. Despite this, the crossing organ has, over 50 years, fought for its place in the history of church music in the cathedral, becomming something of a monument; it will be restored in the near future."
A couple of links that might be of use to you if you were to go there for a concert in the future:
Cologne Cathedral website: http://www.koelnerdom.de/
Cologne Cathedral Organ Concerts List: http://www.koelnerdommusik.de/index.php?id=48
BTW: Clemens Ganz finished his tenure as organist of Cologne Cathedral on 30.09.2001. His sucessor is Prof. Dr. Winfried Bönig.
Dave
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I shudder at this, having actually visited this church. Too many rebuilds and why on earth these registers in a medium size parish church? What is their musical justification? Does the 'new' facade conceal the licorice all sorts within?
Too much money, too much ego methinks.
Mike,
I suspect that when you last visited Christ Church, Clifton the side (ie. facing the nave) facade was comprised of wooden pipes.
The wooden pipes in question are no longer visible and what is there now is a reed battery plus cimbelstern (with rotating star) with metal pipes as well.
Go the the NPOR - http://lehuray2.csi.cam.ac.uk/ - and access record R00089. There is a picture there of the nave-side facade as it now is.
An improvement if you ask me. Note that, when the picture was taken, the rotating star (8 notes in C-major) was not there pending a repair on its mechanism inside the case.
Dave
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Another builder I would have suggested is Klais of Bonn.
I went to Cologne three times (1996/7/8) when I was in my last school. In 1997 they were still in the process of installing the case and pipes of the three-manual beast in the nave that was to replace the 1948 crossing organ.
When I went back in 1998 the organ had been finished and looked spendid. Whilst I was looking at it, someone struck up and I jumped about a foot in the air.
The organ that is now in use in Cologne Cathedral may be only three manuals but it does a fantastic job and, having heard Cologne's Klais in use for a sunday morning service (full house), I can well imagine an organ similar to Kais' organ in Cologne Cathedral being installed in Worcester Cathedral.
Köln Dom's organ, which is installed in the nave, has this specification:
Pd: 32, 16, 16, 10 2/3, 8, 8, 4, 2, 16, 8, 4
Rp: 16, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5, 1 1/3, V, 16, 8, 8, Trem
Hw: 16, 8, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2 2/3, 2, V, IV, V, 16, 8, 8
Sw: 16, 8, 8, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5, IV, 16, 8, 8, Trem
3 manuals, 53 stops, 76 ranks
If you wonder how something like that might sound in Worcester, go and hear Cologne's. Has anyone else on here heard it other than me? If so, what was your assessment, and how might that sound in Worcester?
Dave
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It suprises me that David Wells never put in a bid for the work here.
I have heard the results of his fantastic reconstruction (2001) of the organ in Christ Church, Clifton, Bristol which was previously JW Walker (1849/1885), WG Vowles (1933), Rushworth & Dreaper (1956) and Nicholson (1978).
He replaced the dull-looking side facade with the one now visible (which includes chamades plus a cymbelstern with visible rotating star) and it sounds stunning. I well recall when I went to the reopening concert which was given by Wayne Marshall and featured improvisations on the Flintstones music. Great fun!
Before Wells' reconstruction of the Clifton organ, it sounded very dull, a bit like Worcester's present organ. I would have been inclined to let Wells have the contract to build an instrument for Worcester to include Chamades and Cimbelstern.
Dave
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Greetings / Grußen!
Airbus are trying it on again, as this article from Herr Kropf's excellent website shows:
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April 2005
The City of Hamburg is making a second attempt to build a runway exxtension for the Airbus Hamburg production site, an extension which shall go towards the village of Neuenfelde, its ancient centre and its parish church.
The first attempt has been halted by the courts because of noticeable lacks in the founding of the plan: no really proofable need for it could be postulated, many technical aspects were lacking a thorough-going investigation, and the necessary expropriation of several land owners in the area (inculding the lutheran parish) was regarded being not in accordance to valid state and federal laws.
Now the plan was modified. It was cut to a smaller shape, which omits the land which could not be purchased from its present owners. Special acknowledgements from the German Federal Aviation Authority are required for that modification (and supposed to happen, as the federal government wants to support the runway extension), as the required safety areas around the runway have to be diminished to leave the land of the offending owners untouched. But at least a very small piece of land has still to be expropriated, and for this and other reasons (environmental and safety issues etc.), another action at court will be taken within the next months, as an already “regular”part of an industrial building project of such size and meaning in Germany.
For the church of Neuenfelde, this means: If the runway will be extended or not – the operation of the A380 Super Airbus willl start at the end of this summer. Noise emissions and aerodynamic effects will hit the church, generated by all versions of the A380 being built in the next period, having a take-off weight of more than 400 tons, passing the church in 70m vertical and 250m horizontal distance.
And if the extension will be realised, the touch-down point of the planes will be moved some 120 meters closer to the church, and the customer delivery flights of the even heavier (when proof-loaded) freighter version will also take place at that airport, being now the only remaining argument to support an extension. (The parish was able to proof that its resistance does not lead to any job cuttings at the Hamburg Airbus site).
Indepent from that situation, local organ lovers and experts are planning the next restoration of the important Schnitger organ from 1688. Keeping the church and the organ in good condition will be the most important challenge for the future. By supporting the INZENSO campaign launched in 2000, many hundreds of organ lovers from four continents have shown international interest in the church of Neuenfelde. For this reason the city of Hamburg was forced to make more extensive research on possible damages by the runway extension. And, in aerodynamic aspects, reasons for concern have been found. For the future the local lovers of the organ are hoping for further support for the restoration, coming from the region as from abroad, too. The aim is to reinforce the instrument against all influences and to restore it to the state-of-the-art level, which is called by the large amount of original Schnitger substance in the instrument.
(taken from http://www.inzenso.de/html/runway.html)
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INZENSO and its supporters have won once. We can win again!
Dave
Wierd Organ In North-west London
in General discussion
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Dave