Paul Carr
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Posts posted by Paul Carr
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So glad you all enjoyed your day in Worcester yesterday! For the record, the organ at Evensong was played by George Castle, who was organ scholar at Worcester in 2004-5, went off to Oxford, and has now come back as Sub-Assistant Organist. And the piece after Evensong was the Final from Widor's 6th Symphony.
Thanks for that Chris - do you have a current Organ Scholar too?
Congratulations on your direction of the choir yesterday - particularly the anthem, stunningly beautiful...
P.
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It was a fabulous day!
From hearing excellent performances on the organ, (including a stunning anthem at Evensong sung by the girls choir and layclerks, directed by Chris Allsop with the organ scholar playing - anyone remember his name?) having the chance to play and explore the new organ - unrushed, to climbing around amongst the diaphones, it was all great fun.
I think others have summed-up the virtues of the organ well, so no need for me to add anything!
Huge thanks to Adrian, Chris, Kenneth T and of course John Mander for so graciously allowing us to discuss a major new instrument by 'the competition' in such detail in the first place!
Worcester Cathedral has an exciting future and a fine instrument - that's before the next stage is undertaken which will really just be the icing on the cake (Or the icing on the Nave?)
P.
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...Anyhoo, must get off to Worcester!
We'll race you...
To stay on topic (sorry!) I have the Filsell Vierne and it's stunning, organ, space, player, price. It's very cheap (about £6?) from HMV. You can't afford not to buy it IMHO!
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Several. I would start by paying attention to three elements - phrasing, speed and registration.
Phrasing is quickly dealt with. It is a matter of being thoroughly consistent. Composers practically always litter a work with scraps of melody or rhythmic patterns that are identical on paper. These absolutely must receive identical treatment in your performance. A Bach fugue must not only start and finish at the same speed, but the theme when in the pedal part ought to be presented exactly the same as when it's in the hands.
Speeds have to be correctly related to each other. In the case of a Bach prelude and fugue, the two speeds are rarely the same, but they are often proportionate. An example might be The Great Prelude and Fugue in C: in the 9/8 rising figure of the Prelude, IMHO the three-quaver group lasts the same as the crotchet pulse in the Fugue - i.e. rather stately. Mind you, if one is going for the grandeur of The Big Finish, with 32' drawn for that Pedal entry, this is part of the point!
Taking a romantic work, there has to be contrast. I have heard all music described as a balance between tension and relaxation. I recently heard a famous player rattle through the A minor Choral of Franck. Surely, however fast one plays the opening section (and all sections in similar style) the middle section with the Trompette melody must be 'seriously relaxed' by comparison? Franck himself makes this clear, because at the end of this Cantabile section, when the semiquaver action is brought back, he reminds us (in brackets) that the speed in now twice as fast. Good composers shape their works with variety in mind, you must achieve this result when you re-create them. Even famous, fast war-horses have moments of relaxation.
When I started out, I used to record my actual performances at every opportunity, not least because I sometimes found that these did not sound the same as I thought they did. The widest divergence from my musical aims was always the speed. If there's a rule, I now think that one can safely err on the side of playing slightly slow while one would be foolish and often un-musical to play as fast as one can! There are players with stunning techniques who I strongly suspect play quite so fast because they can. In my whole repertoire, there are about a dozen pieces which I play literally as fast as I can (to excite, even to show off!) NB There are no Bach items on this list!
The other factor contributing to a sense of architecture to the listener IMHO is registration. We are all familiar with scores where the composer merely says f, mf , fff etc. Particularly on a smaller organ, one is easily tempted to go for broke each time f or ff appears. If the composer has been helpful, it will be clear where the real climax is in a work. If this is not obvious, one can safely go for maximum at the end. Anyway, if I have a full organ of Great to Fifteenth and Swell with Cornopean, I would be unlikely to use this much until the grandest moment arrives - I'm deliberately keeping something back so that the most satisfying (or substitute loud, grand, rich etc) effect comes in the right place.
When one plays on a large organ the temptations can be quite difficult to control. I have just recorded the Liszt 'Ad Nos' at St.George's Minster, Doncaster. Here there are 35 pedals stops, the Great boasts four chorus reeds and huge quantities of Mixtures; one could easily draw the whole lot for Liszt's fff. So....what happens when he writes fff again? And again? And again? Discretion says: this is not 'the' loud bit, it is 'a' loud bit. I deliberately vary it - mostly building towards moments that have to totally thunder down. This IMHO is part of respecting the architecture of a work.
Hope this helps.
Extremely well said!
I especially agree with what you've said about registrations and speed... and recording yourself is SO important; I always seem to play much faster than I think I'm playing at the time. Now that I know that, from numerous 'live' recordings, I've learnt that I can really take my time. At a certain recital in a certain French cathedral last summer (trying SO hard not to name drop here!
) I was very aware of this and as a result felt that I'd almost ground to a halt at times, especially as the instrument sounds very immediate, and the acoustic very dry (which of course it is not) when at the console. Hearing it on an unofficial recording from down in the nave, I think that the speeds are just right, but even then they're still on the faster side of the fence!!! 
P
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Thanks!
Excellent - I've been after this for a while.
Anyone out there able to do a quick translation of relevant bits of the site? Enough to be able to purchase it successfully. I can make a guess at some of it, but I'm worried that I might accidentally end up with 27 copies of Messiah, or an armchair...
P.
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This is one of my favourite fugues. There is nothing showy about it; the interest is all in the interplay between the voices. I would liken it to a convivial chat round a pub table. Even more than in JSB's looser fugues, I feel the "discussion" between the parts does not need or want to be interrupted by changes of tone colour. I would try to find a fairly light, crisp, flute-based registration of, say, 8 + 4 + 2 - it shouldn't be difficult on your organ! With the right sound the changes of texture will provide all the variety necessary. Personally I don't feel a pleno registration does this piece any favours (though on some organs it may be preferable to the alternatives.) Being fussy with the tone colours risks making the piece sound larger than life and it simply doesn't need that. All IMHO of course.
I'd totally agree with this, I tend to go for 8 + 4 flutes or 8 + 2 if the 4 is too 'thick'.
P.
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I have booked an evening in the Cathedral exclusively for Mander website users - Wednesday 25th March 2009, 19.00-20.30. This will take the form of a demonstration of the various features of the instrument, including the new dome reeds, and will culminate in a performance of Cocker's Tuba Tune using, at some point or other, every Tuba in the building. For health and safety reasons (primarily my own: the organ tuner would never forgive me) it will not be possible to clamber about inside the instrument.
I will meet all that are interested outside Paul Coffee House - to the left of the steps as you face the Cathedral - at 19.00 (needless to say, please don't be late or you won't be able to gain access to the building).
I do need to know numbers for security reasons so please would you reply to this posting indicating that you would like to attend.
I hope that this will be of interest.
Simon Johnson
Organist & Assistant Director of Music, St Paul's Cathedral
Fantastic!
Many thanks - absolutely count me in!
P.
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Merry Christmas everyone, and a Happy New Year.
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My copy arrived today too!
Thanks Jenny.
P
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Oh well, we got to the offertory and I waited for the CD; I looked at her, she looked at me and nothing happened, so I had to play anyway!
Perhaps she reads this board!
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Hmm, I don't suppose it would fit under a 12'7" ceiling?
If not, we could follow local custom to its logical conclusion and mount the whole damn lot en chamade.
We'd only need a trolley: it can't be more than a mile to move it and most of that downhill.
Ooooooh, hadn't thought of that...
It's a not particularly high 'two-storey' church, but the organ is up on the gallery and its former home was a house, most of which don't have particularly high ceilings... The church may need the hole it would leave plugged though!! Mmmmmm.... Also, the URC which this thread is about isn't a tall building, so that organ may not be too tall either. (Which'll do for your west end division if you end up with both!) Perhaps you should phone Scriven's and ask if we can have a look inside.. (!?)A trolley with incredibly good brakes, that's quite a steep hill.
P.
You'd be required to learn lots of Whitlock...
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The late Alan Harverson used to feature it in recitals. I've also heard the orchestral version in electrifying productions of 'Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk' by both ENO and the Royal Opera.
It's on Herrick's Organ Fireworks IV from St Bart's New York. Quite intense!
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I wonder (as I wander) whether this might have any connection to the organ formerly owned by Percy Whitlock? In 1938 he bought a large 3 man from a retired tea-planter, Edmund Haythorne, for £50 and spent the next 5 or 6 years trying to rebuild it in his cottage on Wimborne Road in Bournemouth. He never succeeded in making it play, though, and eventually sold it to Alan Hickling in 1945. Hickling installed the instrument in Long Lane Methodist Church, near Quinton, Blackheath, West Midlands. Would this match the location of the URC church you drove past?
If it is for sale maybe it should be spared the demolitioner's ball and preserved in a safer place? Whitlock's organ - originally assembled in Calcutta - incorporated pipework by Fonseca, Hope-Jones, Ingram, Gray and Davidson and Willis.
Malcolm Riley
Plausible, and actually in the same road, but the church with Whitlock's former organ in it is about a mile further up the road out of Blackheath. About five years ago I dropped some publicity off there (The Whitlock organ church) and the organ was still there, but not used at all and I believe unplayable as the blower's disconnected. The church has a small and loyal congregation who at that time were keeping the church in immaculate condition... and although they have no use for the organ it is sitting there quite safely, for now...
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Easy for you with your artillery
I use the Andrew Carter arrangement. (as recorded on the Hyperion Advent at St Paul's CD and followed by John Scott playing Carter's Toccata on the same theme)
Carter's arrangement ends in the major, but E major would be very odd as the whole thing is written in F# minor!!
The last but one verse ends on the sub-dominant, always catches my basses out until they think back 12 months!!
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...I came across a tuners book yesterday with a very young PCs writing in !!!!
Ooooo - where? (Sorry VERY off topic for a mo, unless it was in a school!
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I have a leaflet from Nicholsons about an organ in Oldbury Grammar School, I dont know if it still exists as the school is now a sports college.
It was still there about 15 years ago, complete with basketball ring on the case, if I remember correctly. Looked very un-used, the organ that is, not the basketball hoop!
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I saw Paul's reply to this but I wonder if the question refers to the bit at the beginning where the pipes dance onto the stage? It sounded to me like that bit from Facade which used to be the theme tune to Face the Music. I've just downloaded the film onto disc by the way and will be going, armed with this, to wherever they will allow me access!
Peter
edit: a priest of this parish who saw the film last night swears he heard a Harry Potter theme in the music used - having not seen the Potter films I cannot comment - any thoughts?
It does sound a bit like 'Popular Song' from Walton's Façade, but it's not. I think it's a bit of Hearnshaw leading into 'Happy Birthday'!
Yes, HP's in there! Just before the Magician issues the magic to allow Dan to play the SS Organ Sym.
P.
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Perhaps it has to do with the fact that I only play in Methodist churches where of course the idea of paying organists is pretty alien anyway
Mmmm, I played in a Methodist Church for the best part of 15 years and came up against similar attitudes. Trouble is, when you pull into the BP station and announce that you're a Methodist Church Organist, they don't seem to be interested in giving you the equivalent discount on the petrol you've just pumped into the car's tank!
So, that was always my starting point at Church Council/Finance Committee discussions.
I also found that dealing with the couples directly helped; after all - along side the cars, flowers, cake, not to mention reception and wedding dress, even a high fee (in organist terms) seems relatively insignificant. Next to the Minister's fee and the often relatively low church fee it can seem quite high. It's really all about perspective. If your fee is not included in the church fee, the church looks cheaper, which can be appealing to the Minister/Church Authorities.
If you don't live off your fees it's a matter of how much you really want to turn up and do it, call their bluff and see if they can find someone else to have the 'pleasure' and low fee. If you do it as a living then that is surely an argument in itself...
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I have never been inclined to hide my identity: I am neither particularly notable, nor a particularly good organist, though that has never diminished a passion for the instrument or a wish one day to play it well. And I don't care who reads my views.
However, the reason I come to this board again and again is to consider the opinions shared, to learn from them, and occasionally to challenge them or offer insights from areas where I might just have something to say. I would prefer to be enriched by the opinions expressed by people who prefer a nom de plume than not at all. And I suspect I am able to tell the frauds from the real skeins of gold.
Besides, there are ways of finding out who you all are!
I'd be interested to know who Lee Blick was... (Lieblich, I'm presuming) but I guess we may never found out now that he (or she!) has left the board. I used to enjoy his/her posts, even if sometimes a little of the mark which made it all the more fun in some ways!
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How is the old girl nowadays? I used to enjoy my weekly lunchtime recitals there, and thought it a very versatile instrument for its size, action "problems" not withstanding....
Sounds very good, the building really helps, as does the skill of the 1964 H,N&B voicer who has made some pretty poor pipework sound really well. The Bishop ranks are beautiful.
Not so good to play due to the action issues,
but I've got used to it! We're developing plans to, eventually, sort it out.
P
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About as much 'chance' of that happening as winning the Euro Lotto
A shame.
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I know many of you will be busy at christmas, as I will be, being a butcher. I have one of my 2 weeks holiday in between christmas and new year, I normally go to Spain, but this year with the credit crunch, or shortage of money I have decided to stay in this country and see and hear an organ or two. So I am wanting to know if there are any recitals going on that are not on recital.com, as they only show Kelvingrove, Glasgow at the moment
best wishes
Peter
I'm playing one on New Year's Day at St Paul's in the Jewellery Quarter, Birmingham... http://www.paulcarr.co.uk/ThursdayLive.htm
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...I don't remember the Bach he started with but I do remember he missed some bars in the middle of it....
David Briggs tells the story of him playing from memory and mananging to make the Bach B minor Prelude last 17 minutes by jumping back a few pages at a certain point and repeating what he'd already played, and worse still, not being able to get off the merry-go-round each time he got to that particular point again!!
Frightening!
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So, now the work is complete, what are the chances of a Manders Forum Members meet and play at St Paul's? (That's St Paul's London - although you're all always welcome at St Paul's Birmingham!!)
A late at night lock-in to avoid those tourists and guided tours mentioned in the broadcast... and so that we could sample the new dome reeds! Is this sort of thing ever done there?
no chance?
maybe?
possibly?
) I was very aware of this and as a result felt that I'd almost ground to a halt at times, especially as the instrument sounds very immediate, and the acoustic very dry (which of course it is not) when at the console. Hearing it on an unofficial recording from down in the nave, I think that the speeds are just right, but even then they're still on the faster side of the fence!!! 
Wedding Fees
in General discussion
Posted
I think you've hit on a key point here. Problems often occur when organists feel that someone else is making these decisions for them, especially if that someone else isn't necessarily 100% supportive for the rest of the time.
Two instances spring to mind: one a few years ago was when asked to play for the funeral of a baby at a church about 17 miles away which I'd never been to before. After discussing the details the very last thing the incumbant mentioned was that "as a church it is our policy not to charge for funerals of infants, so there won't be a fee..." At the time, as a student, the only reason I'd get into my on-its-last-legs-mini, drive to and through the city, out the other side, park, etc to play for the funeral was to help balance my bank account. I plucked up courage to negotiate £5 for travel expense, and played the funeral, which was quite traumatic the parents being understandably devastated. I felt the incumbant didn't really approve of the £5 request as the "... ah, but this will be coming out of our rather stretched church funds." etc, comments were freely flowing. My point: If it is a church policy which affects fees/payments then the church should pick up the tab and not pass it on to third parties. If as an organist I was a part of that church then, as Patrick suggests, there would be scope for far more flexibility.
The second instance: I was invited to play for a concert for a choir I'd played for many times before. The treasurer told me that my usual fee would not be payable this time due to depleted choir funds, but I would be getting the same expenses as the players in the small amateur orchestra who were also playing at the concert.
This amounted to a £55 reduction.
Again, if I'd been personally involved with the choir or had friends in it, etc and was aware of their financial situation, I may well have offered a reduced fee.
As things turned out, I said that this was fine but as he was effectively requesting me to make a £55 donation to the choir funds, I'd expect him to personally match it.
Unsurprisingly, the confirmation of that particular concert booking never arrived.
Either he didn't get it, or... he did!