AJJ
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Posts posted by AJJ
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Well, I prefer books to weapons...
From "Romantischer Orgelbau in Deutschland", Wolfgang Metzler,
about the needs of Reger's music:
"The Plenum must be based on solid foundation stops. In 16' the Quintatön is not enough. It is not even enough for Bach, it is too thin."
The basis for romantic music is 16-8-4 -with a strong emphasis on the 8- on the manuals, not 8-4-2 like in neo-baroque and north german baroque organs.
In Abschwächungsprinzip-designed organs the 16' flues are attributed according to strenght to the manuals, like the other stops. An example from my project here:
Manual I: Diapason 16+St. Diapason 16'
Manual II: Salicional 16'
Manual III Dulciana 16' (about same scale as Salicional, but narrower mouths).
The two last being softer, it is possible to borrow them on the Pedal without impairing
the global effect, an this is quite usefull because you cannot have too many different colors and strenghts at 16' on the Pedal, like in 8' on the manuals.
Stopped 16' are not enough save in 10-stops schemes. Stopped pipes do not emit the octaves, only quint and tierce harmonics (mainly), which restricts blend with the 8' and 4'.
With 61 notes and musics that go willingly towards the treble, all this leads to thinness and screaming.
Now if the aim is Scheidt and Buxtehude only, this we may of course forget; for Bach, mmh, I would not put my head under the guillotine!
Best wishes,
Pierre
Point taken - I've changed mine for something open and added a 'cheat' one to the Sw - see back!
AJJ
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Not quite 'PC' - about 40 'voices' - here goes!
GREAT
16 Violone
8 Open Diapason
8 Harmonic Flute
8 Stopped Flute
8 Salicional
4 Principal
4 Open Flute
2-2/3 Twelfth
2 Fifteenth
1-3/5 Seventeenth
1-1/3 Mixture IV
8 Harmonic Trumpet (Ch)
8 Clarinet (Ch)
8 Tuba (Ch)
SWELL
16 Lieblich Bourdon (Ext.8)
8 Open Diapason
8 Stopped Diapason
8 Gamba
8 Celeste
4 Gemshorn
2 Flageolet
2 Mixture III- V
16 Posaune
8 Cornopean
8 Oboe
8 Vox Humana
4 Clarion
CHOIR (Enclosed)
8 Violin Diapason
8 Chimney Flute
8 Dulciana
8 Unda Maris
4 Principal
4 Concert Flute
2-2/3 Nazard
2 Gemshorn
1-3/5 Tierce
1-1/3 Mixture III
8 Harmonic Trumpet (Higher pressure)
8 Clarinet
8 Tuba (Unenclosed and much higher pressure)
PEDAL
32 Bourdon (Ext. 16)
16 Open Wood
16 Violone (Gt)
16 Sub Bass
8 Principal
8 Flute Bass (Gt Harmonic)
4 Fifteenth
4 Flute (Ext. 8)
16 Ophicleide (Ext. Tuba)
16 Posaune (Sw)
8 Trumpet (Ext. Sw)
4 Clarion (Ext. Sw)
Liberal sprinkling of couplers - octave and unison.
AJJ
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Just heard this too - Aaaaagh!!!
AJJ
PS Someone really should tell him....it's only fair!
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Is that as a judge or participant?
AJJ
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Yes, and the Gedeckt 8' + Roerfluit 8' combination on the Bovenwerk appears to put a thoroughly execrable tendency to romanticism into the scheme, admirable as it appears to be otherwise.
Or is it just a typo? Because I would have expected a 4-foot State Chimney Flute in that position(actually an 85-pipe unit to be extended to 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5, 1 1/3 and 1 -- it is a large space after all).
Suspicions, suspicions.
Wondering,
Friedrich
Typo - sorry - should have been 4 - my fault not theirs!
AJJ
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You haven't had early sight of the April edition of this learned publication have you?
Yup - 'came last week - very learned as ever - February to April edition.
AJJ
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Quimby Pipe organs have been selected to clean and restore the four manual Aeolian-Skinner organ in the cathedral of St John the Divine, New York......the company specialises in the building, expansion, renovation and restoration of pipe organs............the intrument is due for completion in 2008. The specification is as follows:
HOOFDWERK Prestant 8, Holpijp 8, Octaaf 4, Octaaf 2, Mixtuur III-V, Trompet 8
BOVENWERK Gedeckt 8, Roerfluit 4, Quint 3, Woudfluit 2, Terts 1 3/5, Dulciaan 8
PEDAAL Subbas 16, Octaaf 8,
H/B P/H P/B
Ooerr!!
AJJ
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What are people's thoughts on training girls and boys together?
At a parish level I can see no problem, as you say one has to take whatever one is able to encourage to join. With this in mind a mixed front row can be exteremely musical and moreover both boys and girls are able to work together successfully. Dangerous ground perhaps.. but one does perhaps have to have some sort of an idea as to how 'mature' a female sound one wants and act accordingly as far as age range is concerned. I have been involved mostly with young mixed front rows and slightly older female altos and this has worked well but there was a clearly identified cut off point for the girls (end of school age etc.).
AJJ
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Could we include the girls in with this too please - what with two of my own who both sing very nicely (though as yet not in cathedrals) and a day job that at present involves training solely girls voices I see them as being very much part of the equation in the 21st Century. With Salisbury, Winchester and Bath Abbey (to name but a few) within healthy distance from here one is spoilt for choice - these all have superb girl 'line ups' - likewise St Albans who I tend to hear more on CD having a very old pal in the 'back rows' who supplies the latest discs when they come out. This is by no means doing down the boys - I was one once - but the girls need to be considered too I feel.
AJJ
PS I thought that the Choir & Organ article on the music at the 'red brick' edifice was very good too.
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Oh yes! (The bit about the wine.)
You are correct about the Salisbury CD - extremely well-recorded by Andrew Post, too. He also did a blindingly good job for me - he is a very talented chap!
Has he got a website/catalogue for Vif? - can't seem to find one by the usual means.
Thanks.
AJJ
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Skinner etc. enclosed (to a lesser or greater extent) pipework from the Great division on a number of instruments in the US but it never really seemed to have been done much over here. In the situation where a small to medium sized 2 man has to stand on the one hand in a space where a reasonable sized congregation needs to be supported yet on the other hand a choir very close to the instrument (and congregation) also needs consideration could this be an answer? Repertoire wise would enclosure of some of the more prominent/soloistic and/or softer stops confuse or assist things generally? Perhaps also - could this be a situation where strings and celestes might migrate more effectively from Swell to Great?
(Another alternative is to enclose two divisions in a common box with the exception of the 8' Diapason and perhaps the 4' Octave rather like an expanded village 1 man scheme or to just enclose some of the Great with the Swell. Kenneth Tickell has done the former on a fairly small scale a couple of times and within a monastic musical context on both occasions.)
http://www.tickell-organs.co.uk/specInfo/opus39.htm
Enclosing Great stops has actually been mooted in a possible scheme so any views would be appreciated.
AJJ
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I toured the Friesland area of Holland with an adult choir - some time ago - based in Sneek. We had a good deal of local support (including a reception at the local Town Hall) and managed a day in Amsterdam too! I seem to remember the organ in the main church there (St Martin) being quite impressive - Schnitger 'plus' - see link below:
http://www.hwcoordes.homepage.t-online.de/as/as_sne.htm
AJJ
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Thanks Paul - the Bryceson in the Speech Room would be very interesting also I feel sure!
AJJ
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Personally I find the instrument somewhat leaden, unexciting and too smooth by half.
I seem to remember the organ sounding pretty much like this in real life - though it's a while since I heard it.
AJJ
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Dobson etc. are doing similar things to the above in the USA - almost English style with 'attitude'. This one is at Graham Elliot's church - formerly of Chelmsford Cathedral.
http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instrument..._rockcreek.html
AJJ
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Wasn't there a review of this instrument in Organist's Review a few years ago?
'Can't recall one - there was one of Tewkesbury. Kenneth Jones had one of his page adverts plus front cover on Rugby - I used to enjoy them!
AJJ
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This instrument went in some years ago -
http://www.rugbyschool.net/sl/activities/music/organ.htm
In size and design it was/is of some importance, it also won an important 'non organ' prize (see blurb). It doesn't seem to have had much written up about it however. How does it sound & 'play' - has anyone been and tried it?
AJJ
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The ACC 'choir organ' type idea reminds me of something Schoenstein did at Our Mother of Good Counsel Church in LA in 1988 - there was a considerable ammount of study of instruments in France before its construction. It works really well:
GRAND ORGUE EXPRESSIF
Bourdon 16 Ex. Recit, Montre 8, Flute harmonique 8, Prestant 4, Octavin 2, Basson-Hautbois 8
RECIT EXPRESSIF
Bourdon 8, Viole de Gambe 8, Voix celeste 8, Flute octaviante 4, Trompette 8, Basson-Hautbois 8 GO.
Recit 4'
PEDAL
Bourdon 16 treble from Recit, Basse 8 GO Flute, Bourdon 8 Recit, Trompette 8 Recit, Basson 8 GO, Basson 4 GO.
R - GO
R - GO 4'
GO - P
R - P
Kurt Leuders recorded it on AFKA SK 514 and it shows what can be done with duplexing etc. but with a strong stylistic identity too.
AJJ
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I think John Bertalot's series of choir training 'hints' has had it's time - I find his approach faintly patronising!!
AJJ
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Do we still believe two 8' flues per manual are enough?
Interesting.......the older I get the more I value (especially in service work) the choice of different possibilities from mixing 8s of different timbre - likewise 4s and to a lesser extend by adding 16s. This can of course be done by coupling divisions but when there are enough stops of a similar pitch to do this on one division (and they are not of too marked a difference in dynamics) then the possibilities are much greater.
'Not really part of this thread but as an example Gloucester Cathedral registered by combining 8s, 4s etc. across the divisions is a totally different beast from the same instrument with single pitches - chorus-wise etc. I remember hearing it when first rebuilt in the latter mode - now we tend to hear it more often in the former. The complexity of sound from massed 8s, 4s etc. (if the voicing is ok) can be exciting!
So maybe this might work:-
GREAT: 16Bourdon, 8OD, 8ClaribelF, 8Salic, 4Pr, 4HarmonicF, 2Fifteenth, 2Mixture III, 8Clarinet
SWELL: 8StoppedF, 8VDG, 8VoixC, 4Gemshorn, 2Flageolet - bright, 2-2/3 Cornet III - not too fluty, 8Oboe, 8Trumpet.
Plus a Swell Sub to Great perhaps - and a Tremulant
PEDAL: 16Sub Bass, 8OpFlute, 16Trombone.
The Great 16 could also be borrowed down as a quiete bass alternative
I used to play a Willis II at All Saints in Lincoln rather like this but as with all paper stoplists one can doodle for ever!
AJJ
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If you were going to play for a high profile wedding, with the possibility of setting the trend for the next half-century, which piece would you suggest?
Messaien's 'Transports de Joie' perhaps.......?
AJJ
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The acoustic may be as dead as a doornail, the recording very 'close' but Dame Gillian and Priory seem to have done it again. The atmosphere is amazing and as expected the playing superb - try it!
AJJ
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Wasn't it the Duke & Dutchess of Kent (possibly in York Minster?) - I think she is an organist - as well as a Dutchess!
AJJ
So the organist at the event could have been Francis Jackson - or maybe all this is wrong as 'serious Googling' only brings up Princess Margaret's wedding!
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And interestingly - firms that would previously have built dual mechanical/non mechanical instruments (Symphony Hall etc.) are now leaving the mechanical console/action out and just building the non mechanical. The new Van den Heuvel in Copenhagen has this and I believe also Klais is doing similarly. I wonder whether this trend is player or builder lead?
AJJ
40 Stop, 3 Manual Organ
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Indirectly to do with this - the before and after specs. of Cartmel Priory (about 40 stops!) - 60s Rushworth rebuild and recent Principal Pipe Organs (Organists' Review advert) It looks as if mixtures have been lowered in pitch and (amongst other things) a 16 Double Diapason on the Great replacing (I seem to remember) a Bourdon. They say things go in circles......... It would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind the recent work and to see whether any more 60s rebuilds are due for 're padding'
AJJ