AJJ
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Posts posted by AJJ
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This is interesting - I have a number of recordings of improvisations, some of which I can listen to over and over again - anything by Nigel A, David B, Martin Baker and a few others from the UK, most of the French lot and Dutch organists not trying to sound French! Likewise Gerre Hancock from the US. Some organists who improvise can produce splendid music that can be listened to over and over again, others produce music that is fantastically 'of the moment' but would not stand further listening and there are still some around 'groping in the dark' so to speak especially in the context of a service. Occasionally I surprise myself with an improvisation - usually if I have thought out what I am doing before or out of sheer panic when I have not got a prepared voluntary. Fairly frequently my Rector or members of the congregation comment favourably too which is a bit of a boost. Mostly I do what I do having digested written chunks of Allcoat or the chap whose name I forget who wrote article in Organists' Review some years ago - all quite 'Parish' but that is not to do one's self down. What it boils down to I suppose is whether improvisations can stand recording and repeated listenings - are they still improvisations then, especially if someone listens, transcribes and publishes? - I suppose it really depends on who the performer is and the artistry of their performnce.
AJJ
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Thanks for the reply and your 'knowlege' - we're in France over Easter - 'good excuse to check out FNAC by St Eustache etc. during a 'Paris pause' - they usually have a selection of PC. I can feed them into my new ipod and listen to them all when we get to the Loire - daughters permitting!!
AJJ
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I heard PC improvise once at the RAH and very impressive it was too - I have also heard numerous of the recordings both by the man himself and by others from the many 'reconstructions' etc. I have also experienced a number of his disciples 'doing their own thing' in a like style - some better than others. What I have often wondered however is how much of it was done to a 'formula' as on occasions one can have the impression that one has heard it all before. While not intentionally setting out to upset anyone (living or dead!) and not to in any way wanting to dumb down the artistry or sheer technical skill involved I feel that sometimes the 'formula' could be verging on the predictable. I realise (and I do it myself in a much more modest way) that improvising needs a framework etc. but in the case of PC does anyone think that sometimes the fact that he could improvise the way he did and had such a large following made certain things almost expected of him. That is to say that the tried and tested formula (symphony with a reasonably stock set of movements or theme and variations - again with fairly stock elements) sometimes made up for a lack of new ideas and musical material. The thing is that I feel as if I have heard the typical intro. movement, something slow and 'fonds like', a Flute harmonique type scherzo, a lush 'strings and mutations' section and something that starts as a fugue and ends in a toccata quite a few times now the only difference being the theme applied! Or am I totally off beam and doing the man and his followers a complete disservice?
AJJ
PS Having said this - in a rather different style the JAV recording of Gerre Hancock doing all this at Washington National Cathedral (complete with bells) I can listen to repeatedly!!
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''............ I am going to attempt to track-down a book in English which deals with this (since my French is not good enough for the technical portions). If anyone has any suggestions about a suitable book, I would be grateful''
Fenner Douglas (not sure of the spelling) 'The Language of the Classical French Organ - this might help a little - 'used it for my dissertation on De Grigny!
AJJ
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Also...Ruffatti are building something vaguely 'English Cathedral' for Uppsala Cathedral in Sweden - the 'Westminster Abbey' of over there by all accounts. The acoustic is amazing - I sang there once on tour as a treble. There is a big 3man in the west gallery (Swedish built - 19th century but sounding very French) the Ruffatti will be on a new gallery in the crossing - 4man, Tuba, chamades and 32 reed etc. The organist, Andrew Canning is British.
AJJ
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St John's seems to make a habit of appointing Englishmen (no Englishwomen so far to the best of my knowledge). Do any of our American friends know why this should be ?
Brian Childs
There was also Paul Halley who seems still to be around running choral activities in the depths of the US country. He is a Brit. too I think - I have an interesting CD of him improvising at St J the D - called something like 'Nightwatch'. The improvising style is more 'UK cathedral' than Cochereau et al but a good demo. of the organ all the same.
http://www.livingmusic.com/biographies/phalley.html
AJJ
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Sorry, Brian - I am not sure. I have a dim recollection of seeing the front of an LP cover (possibly with a photograph of the former nave section), but I cannot recall any other details.
Anyone else know anything about this one, please?
Wasn't one of the pieces included something of his own for organ and prepared tape?
AJJ
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It is good to see a Septième rank included in the Choir Organ. This little-specified rank is a good colourant - in a chime-bar kind of way! There is a 'secret' Septième on the fourth clavier of an English cathedral organ. It was re-stacked from another mutation pitch at the last rebuild.
I have a feeling there might actually be two residing on IVth manuals of English cathedrals.
See also (though I think it could be due for a 'rehash' soon - 'needs a case too - I think this could be also part of the plan. The new tower looks good though - especially from the ring road!):
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=A00956
AJJ
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It's true that carpets do spoil the sound of an organ in terms of acoustic absorption. One church I played at had a fully carpeted chancel, and I managed to persuade them to remove two thirds of it, resulting in a dramatic improvement. Smaller harmonics are absorbed, leaving often a dull and relatively uninteresting sound. I have also found that even in a church with no real reverb of it own but with no carpet, the organ is not compromised. A carpeted church with no reverb as a result of it, is not the same as a church with no reverb per se but no carpet. The organ will still have clarity and life. As I think I have said elsewhere, the current problem is those churches having plush seating , which acts much as a carpet over a given area. Chester is a prime example, where the sound of the organ "running about" the nave has gone. Keen ears can often hear if there is a carpet in a church. There is a unnatural "dulling" of the tone, and many a organ has been spoilt by poor knowledge of acoustics. And then there are the organs voiced on site, only to have acoustics altered.........
The best I've heard is Lincoln Cathedral - on occasions no chairs in the nave - you can hear the sound move if someone is playing flat out!
AJJ
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I know someone who will know about Courcelle as his house organ was built by this company - I could pass on queries if anyone wants. Strangely also the new big Klais/Glatter-Goetz in Moscow has a Courcellina on the Solo. 'Not sure quite where the link between this and a 19th Century London organ builder comes from however - see:
http://www.klais.de/m.php?tx=57)
A stringy/fluty diapason will be lost amongst that lot though!!
AJJ
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Well it would seem there are quite a few ladies of the organ loft, and certainly more of them operating in our cathedrals and churches than on this forum!
If my wife is anything to go by there are times when we 'forumites' have some problems being taken seriously!
AJJ
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I assume that Reid must be her married name since the surname on the Messiaen CD released from Wakefield was Louise Marsh and two female assistant organists with the same Christian name at the the same cathedral in such close temporal proximity seems too much of a coincidence.
BAC
You are correct - Louise Reid has a sister Joanna who is also an accomplished organist. Both were students of Marcus Sealy of Bath Abbey and Kingswood School - a superb musician and teacher and also a genius when it comes to service accompaniment. Anyone who heard the recent Choral Evensong from Bath will have heard him in action - his Widor afterwards was stunning.
AJJ
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Also, Louise who was Organ Scholar at Westminster Abbey some years ago is Assistant Director of music At Wakefield.
She's moved on since then - check (& scroll down a bit):
http://www.kings-ely.cambs.sch.uk/
AJJ
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Louise Reid - formerly assistant Wakefield then Guildford - married to DOM at Peterborough and (I think) now i/c the girls choir at Ely.
AJJ
And Hazel Gedge at Brecon of course!
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A good Tuba sits atop a chorus. It doesn't strike it down dead!
MM
Hence - for special effects - the Great to Solo coupler at Lincoln Cathedral where the FW 8' and 4' Tubas can be used as a top to the full chorus (just!) to very good effect. I was also lead to believe that the Chancel 8 & 4s at St Pauls could function similarly - though have never tried the effect there.
AJJ
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I like this scheme a lot - I was thinking myself that in a 3 manual scheme, why not have Great, Swell and Solo.........like St. Bees or the De Montfort hall - and I think the new Klais in Singapore also has this arrangement.
My only gripe with this scheme is that it's a bit thin on flutes and has no mutations, which may be a bit restrictive in quieter music and pre-romantic music.......... and perhaps a wide scaled cornet to the solo, either decompose or under a compound stop.
Klais and others in the USA are building harmonic mutations which sound very fine in schemes such as pcnd's above. The klais in Singapore has them on the Solo as does Bath Abbey. I have heard these used often and they work well in a Classical or Romantc context. At Bath they are paired with a Stopped 8' and a Flauto Traverso 4' along with a harmonic (I think) 2' - under expression - very versatile.
AJJ
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It is also interesting to compare the sound at St Albans now with that when Barry Rose was in charge. Very much a personal thing maybe but I prefer it now now!
AJJ
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In the St-Mary Redcliffe Specification, there is a mistake:
"Viole octaviante 8'" is probably actually 4'
Oops - you are right - but they get it right on the current spec. I'll let them know or maybe the Rev. Tony will spot this! The Colston Hall is amazing in its concept when one considers the nearness to the Royal Festival Hall organ in it's time of construction and in that H & H built both so totally different from each other! I could spend (have spent) quite a number of hours on the Bristol organ.............
AJJ
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I should have explained by "Viole d'orchestre" I mean the A. Harrison version; this
is the one that should be revived and build again.
St Mary Redcliffe, Bristol is Arthur Harrison - 1912.
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N03805
The present spec. is not a lot different even though there was a fire and the Swell rebuilt in 1947 (very much the same style/voicing) - there is a link at the end of the details.
The Colston Hall (also Bristol) is later Harrison (1956) but fantastic Solo strings all the same in the 'older' style.
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N03898
AJJ
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Yes, they are - but they were voiced by Arthur Harrison, who did not use such extremely small scales as did some builders (H-J, Thynne, etc.) to achieve fairly good results.
Even so, there are a few examples, even by AH, in which possibly their only musical use is to illustrate verses of Psalms which talk of such things as the poison of asps, etc!
Bristol - St Mary Redcliffe's Violes are rather fine (but on the Swell of course due to the odd geographical arrangements within the church) too as are the much later set at the Colston Hall - different uses perhaps but this organ is a superb mixture of styles but often overlooked (and fairly easy to get to play - just give them a ring).
AJJ
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There used to be a free reed Cor Anglais in a rather ghastly machine constructed by Davies of Northampton in the 60s in the octagonal chapel at what used to be King Alfred's College Winchester when I was there in the late 70s. This instrument had most of it's notes below 8' C controlled from a rudimentary electronic device so a very large 3 man mobile stoptab console controlled a strange looking open plan organ with no very long pipework so that it would fit under the low point of a sloping roof. The free reed sounded like a bad harmonium - slow to speak etc. I have a feeling it might even have been at 4' pitch in one of it's manifestations. The organ is no more and I think the chapel is now put to other uses. It was presided over by the DOM - Brian Longthorne - a good organist and composer but always rather frustrated by us Post Grads. whose attendance at chapel choir was decidedly sporadic!
AJJ
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One stop with which I am un-familiar, is a Physharmonika - what is this - and what does it sound like, please?
Somewhere back in the cavernous archives of this forum are some links I seem to remember to 'soundbites' relating to this strange stop together with info. etc. - 'can't remember where but maybe PL can redirect us.
AJJ
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Yes - I saw this and wondered, too.
I think that there is a tendency to include more 16p and 8p stops on the claviers, these days.
Whilst I am rarely in favour of mixtures being lowered in pitch (15-19-22 just does nothing for me!), I am in favour of a good supply of contrasted but blending 8p stops - and an adequate provision of 16p flue stops on the claviers.
I think that, on paper, Cartmel looks reasonable. This must be one of the most under-recorded instruments in the UK (if that is not an impossible paradox).
I think Adrian self is organist there (of Animus publishers - some nice music there) - another ex Southampton musician - maybe now the work has been done there might be some recording.
AJJ
Carpet Chancels And Bedrooms!
in General discussion
Posted
Belmont!
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=A00515
AJJ