Lucasorg
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Posts posted by Lucasorg
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Today's photos show much work on the new console as well as more pipework going in. Electrical testing is ongoing before it all goes live in the next few days.
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Adrian, have you thought about a pair of PZM's, I know they are not in the same bracket as more esoteric types, but I am sure if you ask Cynic, he will tell you what the results can be like, and he has the "profesional" Reviews to back them up. I have been surprised at the quality, for example a few years ago I recorded S.G. Lindley at Durham Cathedral, using a mk1 calrec soundfield, the same as Priory and M. Monkman use to good effect, and my friend had a pair of old, trusted and well used Tandy PZM's, he has recorded almost everywhere so has the experience, and he thought as I did that the soundfield would wipe the floor
Wrong, the PZM's sounded just as good
, so much so, that when I listen to that durham recording, I always listen to his version. Regards
Peter
Thanks, Peter,
My experience of PZMs is a great lack of detail and uneven frequency response.... perhaps they have moved on since I last auditioned them??
We want the recording gear to be able to provide a satisfactory sound for both organ alone and with a choir in the choir stalls. Since PZMs are placed on a flat surface I'm not really sure that there is a location where this could be achieved.
My favoured technique for recording choirs is to use a standard crossed pair of cardioids centrally, well raised to get a good balance of voices, rounded out with a pair of spaced omnis, often just outside the ends of the choir. The result is a sound with a wealth of detail but plenty of acoustic too. Our plan is to have the main pair either as the cardioid XY pair which could be supplemented with omnis should the occasion arise, or, with the main pair in figure-of-8 bringing more of the "room" into the equation from the word go. The Quire at Worcester is rather narrow and not renowned for acoustic, so getting this balance will be a challenge. Also finding exactly the right spot from which to balance choir and organ together is likely to take a degree of trial and error.
Still, to have the facility will be a great boon all round. We made our first in-house CD last year and the new organ is bound to spark off more in the near future.
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Why not getting HQ omni mics (Neumann/DPA/Schoeps)? spending so much on organs should enable a 3k euro for this ....
Different pot of cash! Also it would be impossible to get omnis strung in the correct position to do what we want to achieve...
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Have you come across the David Rees Williams Trio who do the Loussier thing much better? Stanford in G, Buxtehude Gigue Fugue and Dido's lament among the best.
The David Rees-Williams Trio is playing at Three Choirs here in Worcester in August if anyone wants to hear them...
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I wonder if anyone on this thread has experience of the non-portable CF recorders? We are hoping to install a permanent recording system into the organ loft at Worcester - should be a great bonus for visiting choirs amongst many others - and are seriously considering the Tascam SS-CDR 1 which will record either to CD or to CF for editing on a computer. It looks a great bit of kit, but would welcome any first-hand experience in this area.
As part of this setup, we are also considering a pair of AKG Perception 400 multi-pattern mics.....while a pair of 414s would be ideal, they are just too expensive for our budget. There are precious few reviews of these mics around, so perhaps someone here has experience.
Best wishes,
Adrian
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Today's photos are now available showing the arrival of much more pipework, details of carving and a more complete view of the South case. We are hoping for the console to go live by the end of the week.
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What seems to work quite well for me is:
For the note Treble C, play the following five notes:
E below, Treble C, G above, C above, and F above that.
For the next note (D for instance) play:
F# below, Treble D, A above, D above that, and G above that.
To simulate a Carillon effect, use the same notes, but substitute the lowest note for an E flat (for a C bell) and an F natural for the next note up etc.
Thanks - now we're getting into some really useful responses...I must try the cuckoo effect as well!
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I always thought of the Solo as being more of a Nave Great. Is any of the pipework scheduled for re-use? I used to be quite fond (no pun intended) of the solo diapasons which I thought had great warmth and body to them and used to give a real boost to choristers singing in the old semi-circular nave choir stalls with the Harrison nave organ.
The Solo division is not scheduled as part of the current work. The Diapason was an effective stop, though it was on some enormous wind pressure... we occasionally used it for special echo effects outside the Quire, but the winding was inclined to lack stability.
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A modern bell is tuned to hum the octave above and below the strike note. Plus a minor third and a major fifth above the strike note.
Major fifth.....that must be the problem I've been having!!
Thanks to all contributions so far...keep them coming, please
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As I recall from a visit to Worcester some years ago there was a freestanding organ not far from the choir which had painted (green?) pipes.
I don't know if you know the one I am thinking of (South Transept, i think), but what has happened to it? I would have thought it would be best left as a monument to history andl, more specifically, to Hope-Jones...
This case, of course, pre-dates Hope-Jones as it was the case for the 1874 Hill organ - the one for which the Elgar 1st Sonata was written. I understand that much of Hill's fine pipework was sold by H-J to cover his debts once he had been given the Worcester contract in the 1890s and this marked a substantial part of the slide into the problems which we now seek to solve.
As Alastair says, the case is to be restored and moved to the position at the front of the North transept where it was originally designed to stand, to contain 2 manuals and pedals for music making in the tower and East end of the Nave. The old Solo division, such as it was, 8,4,2,III,16,8 is still in the case, to the best of my knowledge as well as the two 32 flues, Open Wood 16, and Harrison pedal reeds 32, 16, 8. The lowest pipes of the H-J Diaphone 32 are still there too as they were too large to remove without demolishing most of the case.
I'm sure you all know the story of this case, given by the Earl of Dudley.... He was not a fan of the doner of the Adelaide window in the South Transept and had the case moved in front of it and designed to obscure a good portion at the same time. Church politics, eh!
You might also like to know of the interesting case of PC gone wild. Back in the 1980s, the transept case was taken out of commission because it was a fire hazard. Having read the document some years back, it said that there was a lot of dust and electrical cables and therefore must be a fire risk.... I suppose that would take virtually all organs out of use, at least if Brussels had its way (I mean the EU, not Pierre!).
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1. Just after Quoniam tu solus sanctus, where I anticipate I will be playing the Grand Orgue part on the said Open + Full Swell. At Tu solus altissimus is it better to play the Orgue de Choeur part and interject the off-beat pedal from the GO or forget about accompanying the choir and just play the off beat chords of the latter? I'm inclining towards the latter. I suppose another possibility is to play the left hand from the OdC and the right hand and pedal from the GO - is that too fussy?
If you listen to the Cochereau recording, the off beat chords have great gravitas against the choir....therefore, I suggest playing the OdC part on the Swell and the off beat chords, when they occur, with LH on full Great with pedal...it gives much the same effect.
2. Just after this at cum sancto Spiritu (and similarly at the beginning at Laudamus te) I shall be playing the OdC part on Full Swell. I reckon I can get away with playing the two-chord interjections from the Grand Orgue on Full Organ, or at least something approaching it, but how best to handle them? Is it better to keep sustaining the left hand of the OdC part and just do the interjections with right hand and pedal, or is it better to break the sostenuto and play the GO chords with both hands?Similarly here, keep the OdC part on the Swell but play the interjections when they occur with RH on full Great with pedal.
Doing it this way, is less intrusive to the player than lifting all fingers off and jumping to another manual lock, stock and barrel, so to speak!
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Many years ago, George Guest was playing the piano before a rehearsal at College and he played a series of chords which mimicked the sound of tubular bells. I remember at the time thinking that I would ask him to divulge this secret, but, as things turned out, I never did and now it's far too late!
Does anyone on the board know this trick? Would you be prepared to share it with others??
Many thanks!
Adrian
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I believe I have heard somewhere that it is still planned to have something electronic to serve the greater nave. Is this correct?
That is correct, until we have raised enough to complete parts 2 and 3 of the greater project....funds gratefully received! We have already moved the "Father Rodgers" (which we have purchased 2nd hand) down from the Quire to the Nave in readiness.
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Maybe a 'forum' type visit later in the year?...............please.
I'm sure that could be arranged, but I'd rather do it just after Christmas as things are very busy here in the Autumn term. Any takers??
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It certainly looks very beautiful.
Thank you for these new photographs, Adrian.
Thanks! Pleased you're all enjoying seeing them.
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Today all the facade flats have been populated and the gilded angels have been temporarily placed atop the case - there are small adjustments still to be made. Photos here.
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Today's photos show many more of the facade pipes going into position, some now stripped of their protective layers and looking resplendent alongside the wooden carvings.
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Thank you for those Adrian, I am so glad you don't suffer from vertigo!!! Have you managed to find the spec of the Transept yet, but I imagine you are too busy with 3 Choirs at the moment. Is there a timescale on the big case taking a little walk to the other side, it looks an esay operation.. ahem!!!
The Transept spec went up on this thread some time back.....see here
Hope that helps!
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Latest photos are available here. The console should soon be functioning and we are looking forward to hearing sounds for the first time sometime next week (all being well!).
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...I don't get the Organist's Review!!!...
:angry:
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Do you know the scale of the wooden prd reeds and what pressure they will be on?
Not to hand - I'll see what info I can dig out.
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Here's the latest batch of photos from the last few days, including some of the case pipes now in position.
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More photos with some details of carved pipe shades and decoration for the top of the cases, as well as upper boards and solenoids now in place.
My camera is giving up the ghost - through overuse, I expect, so watch out for a change in quality when the new toy arrives any time now....!!
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Exciting stuff - thanks Adrian. (Presumng also that the two pedal doubles are 32s not 16s?)
AJJ
Yes, indeed - my mistake and now corrected on the spec in the previous message!
Apologies, it's too early in the morning....and I'm off to a long day of Three Choirs rehearsals with the cathedral choirs all day today. If anyone's in the area, it's worth hearing evensong with the combined forces today at 5.30pm...
Shephard - Responses
Psalm 94
Swayne - Magnificat
Holst - Nunc Dimittis
Wesley - The Wilderness
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, so much so, that when I listen to that durham recording, I always listen to his version.
Worcester Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted
For the manuals "natural coverings of fine quality Bone and sharps of Ebony". For the pedals "the keys of Maple with Ebony overlay on the sharp keys".
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