Lucasorg
-
Posts
209 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Lucasorg
-
-
It seems to have gone a bit quiet on the Birmingham Town Hall front, although bits and pieces I have managed to glean from trawling through the web suggest that the hall will re-open in October, with a series of concerts and events to mark the occasion.
Does anyone know how the organ is at this moment and will it feature prominently in the celebrations?
is it still planned to reduce it to 4 manuals (floating Bombarde?)?
Any thing else been done to the organ, and how does the old girl sound in the re-ordered hall?
Not too sure of detail, but we have some concerts booked in there for the end of this year on the expectation that the organ will be up and fully functioning. Some of our group have been in to see the interior of the hall and said that it's looking splendid...
A
-
Now I never thought one mention of divisional cancels would go so far....!!!! In fact there is a use which no-one here seems to have mentioned for these little delights:
Imagine playing on a light registration on the Great or Choir, coupled to the Swell and wanting to reduce without having to make what could be an untidy manual swap - perhaps in a final playout of an anthem in a piece with rather thick chords needing both hands to accomplish. It's rather good to be able to make the move simply by canceling the stops on the "home" manual...jolly useful, I'd say...
A
-
However, it would be interesting to learn how often these are used. The divisional cancel thumb pistons at Exeter Cathedral are literally never used (unless possibly by the odd recitalist).
Both Christopher and I have experience of making good use of these - why else would we ask for them?
A
-
[font=ArialAm I correct in thinking that you had stated that the new console for the quire organ will be sited in the south choir aisle? If so, will it be in a loft and in which direction will the player face?
Hi Sean,
The Console is to go in the South Quire aisle in a new loft whose designs I have not yet seen, though they have been commissioned. The Console will have the player facing East at a height such that the player will have direct hearing of the choir, but not so high as to intrude on the visual lines too much.
Are you able to discuss any features of its design? For example, will the stop jambs be of light or dark wood? What type of draw-stop will be utilised and do you yet have details of the number of pistons and accessories?We have just about finalised the drawings of stop and piston layout, though I don't have in front of me at the moment all the finer details of your other questions. Expect 8 pistons plus cancel per manual as well as a number of reversibles. We have also made provision for generals to control the Transept division when it comes online and other goodies....still a little work to do before all becomes finally settled.
Hope that's useful.
A
-
Just to ask you, have you ever heard "Instructions for Angels" by Mike Oldfield (electric Guitar) and David Bedford on the organ at Worcester? It's on CD, I have it, it's actually really good. Very effective!
Not everyday you would hear an electric Guitar in Worcester Cathedral!!!
It's a new one on me - how long ago was it recorded....??
Out on interest, do you know the John Harle disk Silencium part of which was recorded with the choristers of Worcester in the Chapter House (about 10 years ago...) and is another example of slightly unusual sounds from a Cathedral environment.
Cheers,
A
-
-
Well - just one final question:
How did you manage to take the photographs at the top of the transept case - particularly the close shots of the tops of the metal case-pipes? There is apparently no scaffolding in the transept and it looks as if the triforium gallery would be too far away to afford such clear views.
You might think that I have very long legs...
Actually, there is access at Clerestory level on the West side of the South West Transept from which an excellent view is possible...providing you don't suffer from vertigo! There is not much to assist you if you feel dizzy up there but, as you can see, it's well worth the effort of going up there.
A
-
Thanks, folks...
Matter closed?
A
-
Oh, don't be so coy Adrian ... of course we are!
Do tell me more....I'm all a-gog....!!!
-
So, are Adrian and Andrew related? I don't keep up on these things, so apologies for being dumb.
Not that we're aware of....
-
He then went on to say the same pipes at Worcester would have been much too loud. Lets hope you get what you are expecting in this exciting project.
Those were the very same pipes! Ken takes great care in trying things out in-situ. I think we have all had experiences of hearing organs in buildings to which they were not well attuned....I believe - please correct me if I am wrong - when the Beckerath at Clare Cambridge was first installed it was way too loud for the chapel. Similarly, I believe (though I have not heard it myself) the organ in the Bridgewater Hall Manchester is not powerful enough for the building.
I had the privilege of hearing part of the Cheltenham organ in Ken's works in Northampton last Summer and it seemed very fruity indeed. I am looking forward to hearing the same in their final position at the opening recital next weekend at CLC, though I am expecting a great deal of sound absorption there. I have also heard his instrument in Lower Chapel at Eton College which is a truly awful acoustic, yet the organ sounds amazing given that. I am sure in the Cathedral, it will be much easier than either of those...
A
-
How about a an organ arrangement of Haydn's Surprise Symphony?
Now I've got an arrangement of that....!!!
A
-
Mr Lucas
Thanks for taking and sharing the pictures with us. I'm not experienced in looking at Cathedral roof spaces and others have already commented that there is a lack of space which we can perhaps now appreciate for ourselves. If the Boxes and pipework are to be so far back under the roof are you at all worried that all the sound is going to stay up at that level and not get out properly for the choir (and organist) to hear many feet down below?
PJW
Philip,
Bear in mind firstly that Great and Pedal will be in cases out in front of the arches. Choir, Swell and Solo boxes will be right up behind the arcading and we do not foresee a problem in this regard. The Quire area is actuall quite small and it will not have to do much in the way of projection to succeed. That said, I have every confidence that Ken will ensure plenty of openness for these stops behind the arches. Having heard a trial chord of principals that he brought over some time back, I am expecting an organ that will really sing around the building!
A
-
Love the new pictures. The little crowns on the top of the pipes are a little camp. I haven't seen that on pipes before. Is it unique?
Why is the Transept organ being moved to the North Transept?I don't know if they are unique, but they have earned the case the nickname "The Mississippi Steam Boat" for obvious reasons!
The Transept organ is to be moved to the North Transept (forward from the back wall) to provide an accompanimental instrument for activities under the tower and at the East end of the Nave. It was originally designed for the North Transept where it would be nicely lit by the sun as it passed around the South side. BUT...the Earl of Dudley, who gave the money for the organ, did not like the donor of the South Transept window and had the case built large enough to obscure most of the window....and contributing to our lack of light in the building....
Enough said??
A
-
So you don't need something like?
Ho Ho....and I wondered what that video was going to contain!!!
A
-
Is the size of the Solo Organ dictated by lack of space in the triforium?
Very much so - as you will see from my most recent photos, space is at a premium.
Are the Pedal reeds still to be housed in the (re-located) transept case, or will they be in the triforium? In addition, will these consist of new pipe-work, or the 1972 H&H rank, revoiced?The pedal department will be entirely in the South Quire case, with the exception of the two 32' flues which will be offered as part of the Transept division once that is complete. I know that Kenneth Tickell is concerned that the organ may sound a little lacking in bottom until that phase of the work is completed, and I am sure we will have some sympathy with him in that regard. In our building, this has always been a concern and there are just so few spaces where there is available height for such pipes.
One omission which I found a little surprising was the lack of a 16p reed on the GO. I do remember that the old instrument lost its Contra Tromba in 1978, but it did have the 16p Bombard on the Solo, which did fill the gap between the 8p Posaune and the Pedal reeds - particularly the 32p. There can sometimes be a tonal 'gap' on organs with no strong unenclosed 16p reed, but which have a 32p Pedal reed - for example, St. Peter's, Bournemouth and, to a lesser extent, Chichester Cathedral. Is this due again to a lack of space?It would be lovely to have a 16' reed, but there is just not the space for it. What we lose in this area, we gain in terms of one instrument in one place.
One small regret is that there is no possibility of obtaining flutes at 8p, 2 2/3p and 1p. My own instrument has this on the Positive and the effect is quite beautiful - and particularly useful at Christmas.There are always extra things we should want....!!!
I would be interested to learn the intervals of the mixtures at C1 (and, if available, the scheme of breaks) please.I don't yet have the final details here. Will let you know in due course.
I was further wondering if you had considered adding a transfer stop Choir and GO Exchange (which would be made to reverse the order of the two lowest claviers - and their divisional pistons). This would render such things as the latter part of the Prélude from Duruflé's Suite more easily playable.No. While I understand the benefits here....in fact the Rodgers has this and we use it a lot....we want to make this an instrument that just comes straight off the page...what you see is what you get!!
The last point - no Pedal Divide?No thanks. Not really my scene....I have big hands and use those where others like to use all four feet instead
Hope that's of interest.
A
-
"...there are three empty spaces..."
Actually, only two (unless you count where the console used to be, as the South Transept case is very much still with us, though inoperative at present.
I've added some new photos, including some taken just today of the South Transept case which is still there in all its glory.
There are also new views of the North and South chambers where the triforium arches have been pierced.
Hope these are of interest!
A
-
Regarding the new organ, the organ spec. actually looks very well worked out. I notice the 2 two foot registers on the Great, so that there is a chorus of Diapasons and also Flutes, the latter which are varied. There are also two "twelfths"....one actually a Nasard. Also a Gamba. I notice also that it isn't "spiked up" with mixturework.
See this post back on the other thread....
-
Regarding the new organ, the organ spec. actually looks very well worked out. I notice the 2 two foot registers on the Great, so that there is a chorus of Diapasons and also Flutes, the latter which are varied. There are also two "twelfths"....one actually a Nasard. Also a Gamba. I notice also that it isn't "spiked up" with mixturework.
As I said, the spec looks really very good to me, I was actually very pleasantly surprised. I also like the shallow cases, which will certainly not spoil the architecure.
Richard.
It was clear to us that, within a very restricted space, we needed a very versatile instrument which would accompany well, be full of colour and variety, yet also be able to tackle a whole range of solo repertoire.
From a personal perspective, I have many times bemoaned the lack of proper flute choruses on a whole host of cathedral organs - I find these particularly useful when finding colourful and appropriate sounds to accompany the choir. Frequent 8 & 4 ranks are OK, but a good Nazard and 2' flute offer a whole extra range in this area and simple, bold colours are much more useful than the occasional, rather insipid, thinly scaled flutes that you might find on many Choir manuals.
I am also all too aware that, on well-built choruses, there is little need for rank upon rank of mixtures. If the organ has both flute and principal choruses, the Fifteenth can have a silvery quality that almost shines like a mixture anyway...then the mixture itself does the rest.
I love a good Gamba! I watched Dennis Thurlow back in 1994 when he voiced the old Nicholson Swell Gamba at Portsmouth and made a stop sing with incredible warmth and personality.... It stuck in my mind and has not gone away.
As to the casework, I hope shortly to have some pictures of the new arches which have been opened up in the Triforium...watch this space!
A
-
Basically, as much as I think we should look to the new organ, a stupid amount of money has been wasted on an organ which could have been overhauled almost certainly for a fraction of a sum of building a new one. We've been told it was beyond redemption, whereas a significant number of people seem to feel otherwise.
In fact the proportion being spent on the new Quire organ is quite comparable with the cost of completely overhauling the old one. While the other sections of the project go beyond this figure, so does the scope of what we could have achieved by simply retaining the old configuration. Our aim is to create musical provision for the Cathedral which will not be frowned upon by our successors in 100 years time or more.
The we have further money being wasted on having electronics put in. I suggested the old organ could perhaps have stayed a little longer rigged up to the nave as indicated above whilst the new one was being built rather than importing additional electronics. (Actually it's been planned to have a replacement electronic for quite some time as it was mentioned on an electronic organ builders site a very long time ago, in the case of Worcester). Perhaps the local firm of Nicholsons might have a supply of good quality second hand pipework and they might be able to rig up a good quality temporary organ at a fraction of the cost of hiring/buying a new digital perhaps?Incorrect. The old organ had reached a point where it could not sustain adequately the daily round of services. We have purchased the electronic in the Quire with an agreed buy-back price should we wish to take this up. This, in balance, is considerably less than the cost of a long-term hire and it was the wish of the Chapter to retain our centuries-old tradition of choral services with a broad cross-section of repertoire. Your suggestion of rigging up microphones might work for a congregational service but is quite ridiculous for accompanying a choir at a distance of probably 100 metres.
The whole project seems to throw money here there and everywhere, whilst there may well be a good number of parishes in the diocese who could do with a cut of the money raised and where it could have been put to much better Christian and charitable uses.Incorrect again. In fact we are negotiating a deal on the second organ which is,as yet, incomplete. It would be unwise of me to go into these details at this stage but suffice it to say that our stewardship of the very limited resources available to us demand the closest scrutiny. We do not spend money, particularly at this scale, without considerable discussion and thought.
A
-
Adrian,
can I just say that I think its marvellous that a person of your stature takes the time to reply, and so swiftly, to queries of this nature. Particularly so when the initial query came from someone who, it is fair to say, has not been your stongest supporter on these message boards (ie. me).
Many thanks
Neil
You're welcome
A
Thanks, Adrian.If I might ask, is this just "custom & practice", or is there evidence?
Douglas.
I think it's just accepted as being a misprint...
A
-
On the subject of (possible) misprints in Howells, one thing that has always bothered me is in the Nunc of the St Paul's Service - specifically the first chord of the last bar of page 22, where the altos' A flat is tied over, but the organ moves from A flat to G. Did he really mean that, or is one of those two things wrong?
If anyone has inside info about this, and can shed light on it before Sunday's broadcast, that would be much appreciated.
Altos should move from Ab to G
A
-
Hear, hear. It is indeed an exciting project, even more so if the Nave organ is voiced on French lines.
Thanks for all the support over the past few messages and also to all those of you who have sent private messages.
Shall we move back onto the other thread.....Quire organ, work in progress? I think it has a better atmosphere!
A
-
I've just been working up the accompaniment to Howells G Major mag & nunc, which I've not played before. The copy I have, and I guess there's only one edition, is a Stainer & Bell. I'm wondering whether the "Big" chord that comes just before "world without end" on page 15 of my copy is a misprint. This is the chord with the E flat in the Bass, as printed there is a C flat in the left hand and a C natural in the right hand. To my ears this sounds horrible! Does anyone know if its a misprint?
From memory, the chord should be A flat major with the added G flat and an E flat in the bass.
A
Why is the Transept organ being moved to the North Transept?
Worcester Cathedral
in General discussion
Posted
Certainly, in my experience, the combination piston couplers would not work on divisional "0" pistons...
A