MusingMuso

======================== Oh my words! Booth of Wakefield and Edmund Schulze? Now I don't know for certain, but I have my doubts about this. Currently, there is a re-built Booth organ in St Mary's RC Church, which came from a Methodist Chapel in Cleckheaton. This once splendid instrument, after years of breathing difficulties, was in fine voice the last time I played it; complete with the former Annessens 16ft case, the 32ft flue (sadly the 32ft reed went ot Leeds Town Hall), and a new Tuba installed by Wood, Wordsworth & Co., then re-positioned by John T Jackson. Unfortunately, the very large church is now redundant. However, this organ was never by Booth of Wakefield, but by Booth & Hepworth of Otley WHO HAD WORKED FIRST HAND WITH EDMUND SCHULZE, AND WAS KNOWN TO BE ONE OF SCHULZE'S MANY DISCIPLES. (I'm not shouting by the way!) Schulze also supplied pipes to Booth of Otley, and he shared the voicing of the instrument at Mornington Road Methodist Church, Bingley, which I understand still; exists elsewhere. The Booth family was quite extensive, and I'm struggling to remember the other Booths, but I think there was one in Leeds, and the Otley Booth had connections with that. I shall have to check NPOR for details, if they are there. I'm not sure how much I can develop this, but I hope you can see why I distrust the assertion that "Booth of Wakefield" had any sort of direct dealings with Edmund Schulze, when it could easily have been another Booth. The Wakefield Booth is best known for the pedal "puff" motors, which marks the start of pneumatic action in the UK. MM

=========================== Sorry about that Nick! It's like something out of "The Wizard of Oz" isn't it? I once took a Hindu friend inside Leeds PC, and when he saw the organ-case, his eyes lit up, (as only Indian eyes can), and he burst out laughing. It was he who gave me the idea, because what he said was even funnier. "I just want to hang flowers on it and bring it gifts." MM

=============================== I know so many very usefully re-built Binns organs, which seem to lend themselves to tonal modifications when these are performed well. Indeed, I lived with an original Binns for about three years, and then with a re-built and tonally expanded Binns, which was wonderful. Here is one of the best I know:- http://www.hdoa.org..../organ.php?id=8 (Click on sound clips) So congratulations on what I would regard as a very sound choice of donor instrument, which should serve you well for many years to come. MM

======================= Ah! You've just answered the question which puzzled me for years. I could never understand why that harpsichord soundboard was so moist that it was visibly bowed at the start of the fall season, but that the maker stated that it would be flat again within the month ie: the onset of winter. I think, in NE America, the winter weather system brings very cold, very dry air from Canada, across the Great Lakes, and of course, the chilling effect would, (like a fridge), dry out the timber. In our temperate climate, we just don't get those abrupt changes in humidity. I know that when I first drove on an American freeway, I almost killed myself. It was warm and humid and I switched on the air-conditioning, with the result that I got instant fog INSIDE the vehicle, and a screen so steamed-up, I couldn't see through it at 60mph! I had to open the driver's side window and stick my head out, while coping for the first time with left-hand-drive and a borrowed Cadillac De Ville, which was like riding on a bouncy-castle devoid of proper brakes. MM

========================= That's a neat and resourceful little trick! MM

====================== You don't have to explain yourself David, we knew what you meant. Actually, I think the Victorians were so enamoured with steam and hydraulics, I think they actually found rows of chimney-cans rather atttractive. At Leeds town-hall, they even put those fancy caps on top of the case pipes, like those on Stephenson's "Rocket." Even in our cathedrals, they were quite happy to allow rows of bare pipes, as at York Minster in the chancel aisles, and a lot of main-cases are not exactly pretty are they? Wells Cathedral was naked for years, Salisbury was less than beautiful and at Leeds PC, they put that hideous Hindu temple around the organ. The beautiful cases, for the most part, seem to have come from previous instruments, as at King's, Exeter, York etc. Of course, when Hill, Norman & Beard created a beautiful case, they did it with style, as at Norwich. I think the Binns case at St Aidan's is quite a rare excursion into aesthetic beauty, as of course are the gorgeous cases at St Michael's, Headingley, but they are the exceptions, and organ cases were utility, bargain basement jobs for the most part. What a contrast with the Netherlands, where you don't just get beautiful carving, you get old-master paintings thrown-in for good measure, some of which require painstaking attention by art-restorers and historians. As for St J-the-D in New York, the casework is a disappointment, but that doesn't alter the fact that the organ is the finest in New York, and probably one of the greatest organs of the world. MM

=============================== I can hear the groans already, but I know something about marine-ply for two reasons. I worked for Volvo-Penta marine for a while, and spent some time going around boat-building factories: not exactly slumming it, but going to Sunseeker International at Poole and Marine Projects in Plymouth etc. Those boats are mighty expensive, and worked out at about £30,000 per foot length of boat....God knows what they cost now! It was interesting to see some of the materials being used, and considering what strains and stresses they have to withstand, I was quite impressed. The second source of knowledge comes from practical involvement in motor-sport, and I can tell you that Morgan Cars never used marine plywood chassis, but the Marcos GT certainly did, and many have outlasted the later steel chassis versions. Morgan Cars use a steel chassis, with an ash body frame sitting on top of it. Marcos used fibre-glass for the bodywork Water is always going to be the enemy of wood, but one only has to see it used in marine applications to realise that it is perfectly possible to seal it from the elements. I suspect that the secret of longevity with Compton organs, when both wood or hardboard composite was used, is the fact that things were carefully varnished. The big drawback with materials such as MDF is always going to be the way the material is joined. I assume that it can be glued, but screws and nails are not sufficient, because once a screw is removed from MDF, it will not tighten up properly again, unlike natural timber. So it will always need those special fastenings, which I believe expand as screws are inserted into them. It's one of those materials which is mid-point between wood and metal from an engineering point of view, but with the right approach, I would think that it should prove extremely durable. MM

====================== Well that tells us an awful lot, doesn't it? Could you tell us WHY it is outrageous? This may explain why I, and no-one else that I know of, has ever heard of the gentleman, but he did teach Birtwistle and one of my former brass tutors, Arthur Butterworth. MM

I wonder if anyone has ever come across the music of Richard Hall? There are quite a substantial number of organ works in his considerable output, so why have I never heard of him until now? This gives further information:- http://www.wrightmusic.net/pdfs/richard-hall.pdf MM

========================== I think the magnificent Pearson designed church of St Michael & All Angels, Headingley, is possibly the finest church in Leeds. Not only is the church imposing inside and out, the organ is absolutely super, with a lovely pair of West and South facing 16ft organ cases. http://www.st-michaels-headingley.org.uk/music/organ.html Well worth a visit. MM

It's a bit of mircale it IS still there, but it is. Leeds has some fascinating architecture, including a mill, (I think now converted to other use), which is built in a strange quasi-Egyptian style. http://www.victorian...ple-mill-leeds/ St Aidan's is equally fascinating; being a vast, brick-built building of almost Basilca proportions, with an astonishing acoustic. It's kept going in what it is a very downtown area, almost against the odds, but it attracts a lot of admirers from the high anglican fold, and seems to keep afloat. The internal mosaics are particularly famous, but what astonishes me, is the fact that the organ still works using the original Binns action, and it is by no means an isolated example. It's just astonishing that Binns could make pneumatics which lasted and lasted and lasted, and yet, in the cities, they must have been subject to the most awful pollution from manufacturing industry and coal smoke; right through to the late 1950's, when things got better. Indeed, the original plan was to have the interior panels of the church painted, but such was the pollution, the mosaics were considered a more durable option. Even human beings seemed to expire from pollution quicker than Binns organs! St Aidan's has a young, enthusiastic and highly qualified organist, and there has been quite a revival in the musical life of the church. There are some pretty pictures on the Wikipedia site, and a rather good one of the organ-case:- http://en.wikipedia....Aidans_0102.jpg If you left-click on the photo, then left click again, it will reveal the full extent of the wood-carving, which is rather excellent. Having accompanied a carol concert there many years ago, I can tell you that the organ is a long way up, and amusingly, when Binns added a Tuba rank, he placed it just beside the console. It certainly wakes you up! MM

=========================== Early Harrison & Harrison organs were just as numb, but at least J J Binns made this case in the factory:- http://staidan-leeds.org.uk/music-at-st-aidans/the-organ-2/ It's a splendid organ, a very resonant (high anglican) church and rather beautiful to the eye. MM

========================== An excellent contribuition from CTT; thank you. I think it demonstrates that all materials have a use, but knowing the material properties is paramount to longevity. It reminds me of a racing-engine I had constant problems with, when the head gaskets kept failing. Having blamed half-a-dozen failures on the gasket material, (itself upgraded), and on the point of having Wills Rings machined into the head, an old, experienced engine-builder suggested that it may be an oil seal problem. So it was, that I investigated the neoprene O-ring seal, which sat well away from the water-cooling ports. Getting too hot as compared to normal use, it was virtually melting, and the very hot, pressurised oil was destroying the gasket material. A change to a small fibre and brass seal solved the problem completely, and had I known, I would have been many hundreds of pounds better off! I suppose that there is no substitute to the "school of hard knocks," where we learn by practical experience, and it seems to me, that many of the problems many associate with modern materials, might have been avoidable with the sort of care and attention to which CTT alludes. I shall never be a convert to chip-board however! MM

====================== A very pertinent observation Nick, and one with which I fully agree. Whenever I change the harmonies, or add a nice llittle organ descant over and above the tune, I have a golden rule. At line ends, I always use concordant harmonies, because once you get beyond a simple 7th, people instinctively hesitate. In between those natural commas and full stops, you can more or less do what you like within certain limits of harmonic common sense, and people will stay with you, in key and on time. What strikes me about the Southwark debacle, is the fact that if you listen very carefully, the congregation are the ONLY ones in time and on time, but the choir goes all rubato and the trumpeter, (torn between one world and the next), just gets completely flumoxed. I actually think that the fault is entirely down to some very dubious and over emotional conducting, and no-one, (not even the choir), were going along with it. I don't think it's ever a good idea to play Russian Roulette with congregational hymns, but I expect that Gesualdo would have approved. MM

=============================== Indeed you did, and I didn't quite know how to respond the first time. How small scale are those strings? MM

======================== Thank you for a thoughtful and thought-provoking reply, which must be based on a great deal of practical experience. The point about the blunting of tools is interesting. I shall have to test out some of my old Sheffield steel drill-bits on MDF, and see how quickly they blunt before I have to grind them sharp again. I wonder if America organ-builders use proprtionally more inert materials than is used in Europe? The reason I suggest this as a possibility stems back to my time in the US, when I visited the workshops; not of an organ-builder, but of a harpsichord maker of world renown. In my rather green ignorance, I asked why the soundboard was bowed. "It'll be just fine a month from now," came the reply. That was the effect of seasonal humidity change at the start of the fall season; the likes of which we never experience over here. I quite take the point about mixing aluminium with natural wood materials, which is just a basic engineering fact of differing absoprtion/warpage/ expansion/contraction characteristics, where two materials do different things. It's just the same in all metal engineering, as a bi-metal strip so beautifully illustrates. It seems to me, that where non-slider windchests are employed, as with Pitman chests or the individual unit-chests of an organ-builder like Compton, all that is required is stability and strength, on which to screw or hang the various components. So in effect, good, well seasoned timber would seem to be a bit of a waste in such situations, when perfectly good alternatives exist. I just get the feeling that many craftsman would, for no really valid reason, raise their arms in horror at some of the things done with theatre-organ re-installations. I expressed surprise on entering a re-planted Wurlitzer, where the chamber-floor seemed to be full of plastic drainage pipes. These turned out to be the wind-trunking, and when I questioned it, I was asked, "It works doesn't it?" It did indeed work, and had done for quite a long time, so the only possible grounds for objection were entirely aesthetic. MM

============================ I have to tread carefully, because my fellow-countrymen gat very sensitive about praising American organs. They seem to think that everything is extension; over-loud and over-voiced, but WE know the truth. Actually, I'll stick my head above the bellows and suggest that I have never heard finer reeds, strings and possibly even flutes than in America, but I hesitate about the flutes. You have to hear some of the old Netherlands flutes before judging anything....they are often sublime. We'll keep it secret....no-one will read this, I feel sure. MM

================================= Shucks! American strings and reeds ARE rather good, by and large, but Compton's out of tune? Try this, but be forewarned, there is a pedal reed or something slightly out of tune on the last note. The organ is Downside Abbey. MM

David Coram's mention of fibre-board being used as a material in the Compton organ at St Geroge's RC Cathedral, Southwark, sent me on a bit of a "google" concerning the materials now often used in organ-building. In the process, I discovered things that I didn't know, including a few "thumbs down." In fact, when I started to search, I wouldn't have known that there was a difference between hardboard and what we call MDF, but in fact, there is a huge difference in the make-up of the materials. At the ouset, let's draw a veil over "chip-board," which is a fairly brittle and rather horrible material probe to the effects of even modest damp. On the other hand, we must include the best marine quality ply, which has been used very successfully by many organ-builders. It would seem that hardboard is a completely natural material: in effect disintegrating real wood, autoclaving it, deliberately venting the autocalve pressure suddenly and allowing the fibres of the wood to literally explode. The bonding resin of the original wood is effectively re-used, producing a grainless, very consistent material, which can then be accurately worked and machined. The effects of damp can be protected against by the use of various varnishes: not that hardboard is especially bulnerable to mildly damp conditions. MDF (medium dense fibre), is a very different material, though broadly speaking, it is similar to hardboard, except that it uses formaldehyde as a chemical agent in the bonding resin. A couple of thumbs down seem to be given on the basis that it can easily be gouged and chipped, and screws do not hold well when undone and then re-tightened, which explains why MDF furniture manufactirers tend to use special fixings. One of the more alarming things I have discovered about MDF when used for toe-boards, is a tendency for metal pipe-feet to corrode very rapidly, which may have a lot to do with the formadehyde in the bonding resin. (The jury is out on this at the moment). What I find interesting, is the fact that there are a vast number of materials from which to choose, and a similar range of quality, just as there is with real, seasoned timber. The intial question is simple. Why should natural wood be any better for organ-building than the best composite board, and if it isn't, is it just a matter of tradition and pride that it is used? To put it another way, if you were a consultant engineer called into investigate organ windchests, which path would you choose; contemporary materials or traditional ones? MM

============================= You don't appear dim at all. The BBC iPlayer broadcast is not available in America; assuming that it still exists at all. However, Nick Gale, the DOM at Southwark RC cathedral has posted various video clips on You Tube, and can be heard there. However, open the clip as normal, but then click on the YouTube symbol at the bottom of the frame, which will allow you to hear it directly from You Tube, whereupon you will find the other clips by scrolling up and down the listings on the right. Try this:- Being used to extension organs, tell us what you think to 18 or so ranks of the Compton extension organ at Southwark RC cathedral. MM

======================== Not a problem! MM PS: In the video, there is a very appropriate bit of text. "Where is that music coming from?" Imagine a walking console, with suitable blue-ray interface.....the organist could stampede down the church and out into the borough; none daring to challenge him. He could still be playing the organ when he got to Waterloo Station. Glad to hear that the organ isn't going to be scrapped.

========================== Ah! How interesting. I didn't know that Bakelite was invented by a Belgian, and that it was produced at a factory in Birmingham, as well as other places presumably. At a guess, (and it is a guess), the material would be bought in solid sheet form, and then heat moulded at the Compton works in Acton. I must have changed dozens of Bakelite distrubutor rotors in a variety of cars over the years, without realising that they were made of Bakelite. Quite an impressive material, considering the high voltage which passed across them (10,000V +) and then sparked across to the distributor cap and the plug-leads. MM PS: The Bakelite switch is not surprising. I have some VERY old vehicle switches, which must go back to 1930 or before, and they are of compound metal/insulating material, all neatly rivetted together to form a laminate. The various hinges are machined into the metal bits, and the contact plates made of similar metal/insulating material (probably shellac), with brass strips to make or break the circuit. In other words, they're very complicated little things. When Bakelite came along, it was possible to have precision moulding, and to then machine the moulding afterwards; the whole body being light, strong and a perfect insulator. Thus, it simplified the whole thing by a substantial factor. Only old ceramic pottery switches could compare, but they were very difficult to work at the production stage, and being ceramic, it wasn't possible to machine them. Instead, all the working parts would be brass. Quite a revolutionary material was Bakelite.

========================== I'm not being pedantic, but with a growing portfolio of all things Compton, I've tried to find out materials which are likely to have been used by Compton. I don't know if anyone on the board knows, but during WW2, plywood and hardboard gliders were made, which were used to drop troops from the air; towed by powered combat aircraft. I have yet to discover who designed or executed these craft, but a company called "Masonite," which still exists, had pioneered hardboard as early as the 1920's, and this included external cladding material which proved less than ideal in damp conditions. The difference between hardboard and fibre (fiber) board, is the fact that the former uses natural wood resin; the entire material produced by a pressure-autoclave method, which takes the "pressure-cooker" to around 400 p.s.i., and which is then suddenly brought back to atmospheric pressure, resulting in the wood-fibres exploding. It is then pressed, dried and formed into shape, from what must presumably be a sort of sludge or paste. Bakelite, on the other hand, was a thermoplastic containing compressed cardboard, so far as I know. I haven't spoken to anyone with detailed knowledge of Compton hardboard materials, but in general, it seems that varnishing of the boarding will prevent any tendency to rot over time, and I understand that Compton hardboard components are always sealed and varnished. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if I eventually learn that Compton bought his materials from America, but maybe someone knows better? Interestingly, 70+ years on, quite a lot of Compton organs are still functioning well; possibly because the engineering was well conceived and executed. MM

======================= I know people who could get that console to walk up and down steps on its own. I'm not saying it would be cheap, but it could be done for a quarter of a million or so. Of course, with current health & safety legislation, the organist would have to be provided with a safety-seat, harnesses, a hard hat, liability insurance, a first-aid kit, yellow flashing beacons and an audible alarm everytime it moved. That does tend to limit things and pee on the idea of an all-singing, all-dancing console; attractive as that might be. I've actually driven (played) on a machine which can do this, but they had to remove me from the driving seat when I was in danger of turning the thing over. Still, it was fun while it lasted. MM

============================= Well, you can't fault the music, but the concept.............................ugh! Why can't people shut-up once in a while? I found myself wanting to hear Stephen Fry and the panellists of QI rather than a dubious lecture concerning biblical authority. (Of which there is almost none, unless you're trying to market the birth to the Jews of the day, as a fulfilment of prophesy). Better, I think, to read "A Christmas Carol" by Dickens, and listen to the traditional service from King's. Only then does it make sense. MM