MusingMuso

======================= We have some wonderful cemeteries in the UK....especially in Glasgow. Out theme parks tend to be rubbish. I'm sorry to keep quoting Blackburn Cathedral, but is there really anything it can't do justice to which doesn't belong to England circa 1920-1945? I can live without most of that. MM

====================== That is a gorgeous sound Pierre....I want one! I also came across an example of a Physharmonica from somewhere in Poland, which sounded so utterly beautiful. I'll try and find out the source. MM

================= Like I said.......themepark! MM

==================== I like to think of Blackburn as English Renaissance art, where clever men looked to the past and yet created something entirely new of lasting value. MM

As far as I am aware the term "braying party horns" has largely been used on this site recently with reference to the Liverpool Trompette Militaire and like stops. But surely the pipes for the Willis prototype in St Paul's were made by Moller and imported from the USA so perhaps we should give the credit for them to our American cousins ? Which particular builder's ophicleides have aroused your displeasure ? I have experienced a number of stops that went under that name and they sounded far from identical ! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> =================== If we are referring to the Trompette Militaire at St.Paul's, my understanding is that the thing is a standard Wurlitzer "English Horn" made with exponential brass resonators.....good isn't it? I dislike most Ophicleides that I've ever come across; but especially dislike those great rumbling Willis monuments and the over-loud, over-blown Arthur Harrison ones which are usually extended from a Tuba. Near to me is a big Hill, Norman & Beard with a barn-burning Trombone on 7" wind. It may be loud, but at least it's musical. Why should anyone want higher than 7" pressure for a pedal reed? If it isn't loud enough, then point them at people! MM

One can successfully do Dyson in D at Lichfield, Liverpool or Kings, as indeed most cathedrals. Worcester is of course a typical "English" sound, whereas Gloucester clearly is not. Blackburn likewise is not a English sound. The tone of Diapasons has basically changed little from the 18th century onwards. Notwithstansding bigger scales, and a more demanding repertoire requiring bigger stop lists, the Diapason remains at the core of England. Few organs dispense with them, and do so at their peril. So, what is English, what is not? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ================== In other words, we are turning "English Cathedral Music" into a theme park and a tourist attraction. Who says that Blackburn isn't an English sound? The Great chorus is very English in character, whilst the reeds are generally quite splashy, but certainly not flat-out mad Frenchman in style. The Positiv is basically German in style, but blends as well as asserts itself. If it isn't English, what is it? Let's do a questionnaire! The tone of Diapasons has changed radically from the 18th century, but they are now probably being made nearer to what they were then, rather than what they became after 1890 or so.....that is a GOOD THING. Nothing is English at all which hasn't been done before by others; save for fat Trombas, ghastly pedal Ophicleides and braying party-horns. MM

It would be interesting if they built an authentic pipe organ with some purely digital sounds in it as well. (NOT toaster imitations of athentic pipe organ sounds). I wonder if it's ever been really carried through ever and in a professional and thoughtful manner? Pure traditional organ tone mixed with synth sounds could in theory produce some new and interesting effects. ================ Yes, I've argued this before. I would love to have a digital Glass Harmonica.....imagine that with the celestes. MM

Take any german, french or belgian Trumpet, Clairon, Bombarde, Posaune; they all would have been classified by Bonavia-Hunt as "free toned", while the Willis chorus reeds he named the "normal" one. =============== Am I the only person to think that Bonavia-Hunt was as mad as a March Hare? Anyone who could regard Willis reeds as "normal" had to be barking. Before Willis, and long before Arthur Harrison came along and ruined even his work, there were different reeds entirely....full bodied, blending reeds superior to almost anything else anywhere....think Thomas Hill; think H, N & B and the Rundle reed-voicing dynasty. As for French reeds, I just can't imagine why anyone would want to play an organ which sounds like a hugely amplified harmonium when everything is drawn. I expect that the next most intense sensation after playing a large Cavaille-Coll is to be struck by lightning....and I don't fancy that either! MM

======================= I once did a spec which included a "Celtic Horn" because I couldn't decide what the best pedal reed might be. I'm not sure that it would be suitable as a chorus register, because the re-creation of one based on archeological remains was a bit rough and ready in tonal quality. I have this idea for a chorus of Diaphonic-Dulcianas, where the sound emerges from a 10mm drilling in the otherwise closed-cap. I don't expect it to catch on! MM

(Quote) Don't be angry, but from an historian's point of view, this is normal. As a music lover, I prefer the two firsts, but this is irrelevant as long as the aim is to understand the facts. ============= The historian A J P Taylor was right. "History is bunk!" MM

================= Craze.....now there's good word! I think I would prefer to hear the "crazy frog" song than a diaphone in full flight on a supposedly classical instrument. I wonder if a "bad copy" of something already bad, would make it a better copy than the original? Quite how anyone could equate Thynne, Arthur Harrison and Hope-Jones in the same phrase, completely escapes me. Musically, there is not the slightest justification for wanting to re-create diaphones or anything else by Hope Jones, unless the repertoire is restricted to East Hope Martin's "Evensong." Nothing was ever written for that style of instrument that hasn't since been lost, dumped or given away to Oxfam shops. I begin to wonder whether we are now talking antiquity for it's own sake, rather than for the sake of music. Without the slightest musical justification, isn't it better to let the Hope-Jones remains go to a dedicated museum rather than be retained as a musical carbuncle in a cathedral organ of already dubious origins? It's quite interesting that so much time and energy should be expounded on a subject which has no relevance whatsoever and never will have. The "Orchestral Organ" was a freak of music, and frankly, even fair-organs had better chorus-work!! Cinema organs at least had mutations and things which went up to 1.3/5th pitch (sometimes to 1ft), and they can actually be teased into making very Cavaille-Coll-like sounds with a bit of imagination and artistic-licence. MM

================== So it's a mongrel then? To the sea-bed with it! All this talk of Robert Hope-Jones and heritage has thus far failed to mention two interesting facts. Firstly, his great grandson, Mr Robert Hope-Jones, is very much alive and kicking and involved with organ-building. Secondly, the Lancaster Theatre Organ Trust are in the process of establishing the Manchester based Hope-Jones heritage centre, and any remaining examples of Robert Hope-Jones work would be very welcome there........like those redundant diaphones at Worcester. Better still, I have pictures for you............including one of the current Robert Hope-Jones, who bears a certain resemblence to H-J the elder. Try the following link:- http://theatreorgans.com/lancast/ Then go to the tab marked Heritage. MM

@ MM: Mind the bottom of the sea solution, tough. A 32' Diaphone could make a fairly frightfull Vox Balenae, isn't it? Now suppose a shark named Max decides to improvise a little on it. What do you think could happen to the coasts less than 1,000 Miles away? Would you like to take responsibility for that? Pierre <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ================ I've just discovered that the diaphones are Hope-Jones. There was I thinking Davy Jones....sorry about that! I take no responsbility for any possible tsunamis off the coasts of Europe. MM

====================== This may not seem like the place to discuss religious or sociological matters, but of course, the whole future of organ-music and organ-building are connected with them. Leathered-lips-(inc?) made an interesting statement, which I will repeat:- "Can you imagine a group of scallies going to an organ recital rather than down the boozer?" Well, I could tell you a story....in fact I will. I was once performing at a quite important London venue, and I mentioned this to a young man I knew at the time, who had a "new age" hairstyle flopping down one side of his head. He told me he'd love to be there to hear the music. "Why not turn the pages for me?" I suggested "Cool! Should I put my hair up or down?" He asked. I thought for a moment, then broke into a mischievous grin as I replied, "Up!" So it was, a certain London church was treated to the sight of a young new-age punk turning the pages, complete with Mohican!! I don't find any great prejudice against me when I mention that I'm a classical musician to the many "Scallies and Chavs" with whom I come into contact. Maybe the reason is that I can relate to THEIR world quite easily; and by the way, I have the "Scissors Sisters" CD!! Another interesting snippet from 'Leathered-Lips' is worthy of repetition:- "Let's face it there are some clever and very resourceful pop writers out there who could do a far better job than "Switched on Bach". Actually, there are some brilliant arrangers and composers connected with pop-music, who may do it for the money, but who do it terribly well nevertheless. I now fly off at an obtuse angle......... I often meet a LOT of young people from all over the planet; among whom are many young Indians, Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians. I also pop across to Holland quite often, and talk to people of all ages there. It's an interesting fact of life, that even the Indians know something about organs and organ-music, and a young Pole (possibly about age 20) not only happily informed me where the largest organ in Poland was, he also mentioned the moving life-size figures in the organ-case at Oliwa Katedral in Gdansk!! (He works in a distribution warehouse!!) The Dutch of all ages have a real enthusiasm for the organ, and I recall a mini-swarm of children clamouring around me at Rotterdam Cathedral wanting to see the console. I took the time and trouble to take them up four at a time. I had an uncle who sang quite well. He was something of a local celebrity, and toured around the northern "Messiah" circuit as a bass soloist; singing alongside the likes of Kathleen Ferrier and Isobelle Bailey. When the BBC asked him to turn professional, he replied, "Nay lad, I can't abandon t'cows and t'milk round." He remained a farmer to his dying days. Doesn't it come down to COMMUNICATION? This is why I like a lot of contemporary Czech music.....folk rhythms and high intellect combined. Liking people for what they ARE rather than what we would want them to be is not difficult, and it's where communication starts. Talk to a young Pole about Poland, and demonstrate that you know something about the place....then sit back and watch them light up as they struggle to communicate in English with boundless enthusiasm. It's all about bridge-building...... Organists, as a broad group of people, bore me to death quite frankly when they're not playing the organ, and the same goes for most people connected with "church." Carlo Curley tells the story of going along to play the organ at the RAH, and when he got there, a pop-group (Status Quo?) were trying to destroy the building as they practised for a gig. When they finished, and started to collect their things, Carlo went to the organ, switched on and flicked the far-right general piston. He almost blew the pop group and their equipment out of the building, and they gaped in disbelief. Carlo got off the organ and shouted, "Now THAT'S organ-power!" IT ISN'T DIFFICULT......GO AND COMMUNICATE!! By the way, the Cinema/Theatre organ came into its' own AFTER the talking films arrived, when organists became superstar entertainers earning pop-star money. The peak was during the war-years in this country, and the talent enormous....Quentin Maclean studied organ with Karl Straube and composition with Max Reger!! Sid Torch became a brilliant BBC arranger after giving up the theatre organ. MM (I've listened to the track "Filthy/Gorgeous" by the "Scissors Sisters" and a Bach Trio Sonata slow-movement played on an 18th century Stumm whilst writing this. How's that for eclecticism?)

=============== Now it would seem that no-one has any use whatsoever for the Christian Church. So much for throwing the organs out and trying to make church more entertaining! MM