MusingMuso
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I still maintain that there are just as many problems with mechanical action, albeit of a different nature. There was, for example, an organ somewhere in the southern hemisphere the action of which was so heavy that, upon being confronted with it, Marcel Dupré immediately changed his published programme.
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You don't have to quote the Southern Hemisphere when there was a notable example closer to home. It was said that the organ of York Minster, as built by Elliot & Hill, was so heavy, that the organist was obliged to have "interludes" quite soon after commencing his voluntaries....a forerunner of the EU working time directive, if ever there was one.
Unfortunately, organists tend to travel to Holland, Germany and elsewhere, and return home with glowing reports of tracker-action instruments. The organ of St.Lauren's, Rotterdam (which is a huge instrument by number of pipes) is a joy to play, until the "assistance" is switched on, at which point it becomes decidedly unpleasant to the touch. Of course, String and Celeste with octave and sub-octave is not an option. However, this is a glorious instrument with a generally magnificent key and pedal action, so why can't it be done back home?
Well, there are very good reasons why I cannot be done back home as a general rule.
The overwhelming majority of English churches are squat, wide and have side aisles. There isn't usually the height to re-create the sort of layout possible in the great hall-churches abroad. Lest we forget, the top of the organ-case at St.Bavo, Haarlem, is about 80ft above the floor, that at Rotterdam is probably 70ft etc etc.
English Cathedral music tends to be centered in the chancel, so the ideal west end position is not an option and organs have to be crammed onto rood-screens or pinned to walls. In lesser churches, organs tend to be disposed horizontally due to the lack of height. I don't suppose anyone has ever done a proper survey, but I'd like to guess that 75% of UK organs spread outwards or backwards, rather than upwards.
Furthermore, organists like to have a wide variety of accompaniment sounds under expression, and a good supply of climax-reeds for the big finish. That implies a certain complexity over-and-above the simpler ideals of "werkprinzip."
If, as organists, we are prepared to forego the delights (?) of Howells, Vierne and East Hope-Martin, and stick with the baroque, then we too could have highly specialised instruments as the norm. I don't think anyone really wants that....I certainly don't.....even though I have lived with one for many years. The big romantic repertoire calls for big, complex instruments....great machines.....which are a testament to the age of industry, steam and mechanical ingenuity. I believe the Barker-lever was first used on a steam-engine!
The music also reflects this....the great dynamic sweeps and changes, the raucous roar, the tear-jerking delicacy....the very essence of romanticism; delicate, moody, fantastic and awe-inspiring all at the same time. Romantic music is not really about the carefully argued fugue and the nuances and subtleties of phrasing and voice-leading; even though they have relevance in a good performance.
To this end, not only is EP action (maybe even pneumatic) desirable, it makes things possible which otherwise would not be.
Equally, the strictly "werkpinzip" tracker brings vitality and control to music from a very different age.
We must ask ourselves whether it is better to hear Bach played on a harpsichord or a Steinway, or whether it is possible to enjoy each in its' own way, and the differences that they bring to the interpretation of the music.
As for detached consoles, they have never been an obstacle to the professional performer, but it takes time to get used to each in its' particular environment, and get to the point that one no longer notices the slight delay.
Having been an assistant organist at a church which had a fine choir at the East End, and a large organ with attached console at the West End, I reckon I have learned to cope with most things and how to turn a muddle into music!!
MM
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Of course you can drive it in the context of an electropneumatic action an this is what H-J did. But of course with his Leclanché cells he couldn't go that far!
The electropneumatic systems really began to take off with the advent of the dynamo...
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I've recently read somewhere, that H-J actions could never have worked for long using batteries, and I assume that this must have been true for other designs also.
However, I believe that Roosevelt had electrified things before H-J, and that is the crude system to which I was referring; not the pneumatics.
I don't know how original H-J was being, but the use of a metal disc and horseshoe magnet is neat and simple, even though the patents seem to conveniently leave out some of the finer details of design. (Apparently, that was quite common practice, and a deliberate attempt to mislead others)
On a slightly more interesting note, who invented or first made available, the "solid-state logic systems" which used transitor-switching, and who thought of, or designed the current "fly by wire" multiplex systems?
I know that the "Christie music transmission system" was quite early, but how close is this to current systems, and was it a "first?"
Please be kind, I know nothing about electricity or electrical circuits other than knowing how to change a plug, mend a fuse and catapult myself across the garage like a human cannonball, when I clean the car's ignition leads and forget to switch off.
MM
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A certain Hilborne Roosevelt, in the 1870 years, inspired by the Walcker
Kegellade chest and Barker's pneumatic lever
(Source:Hilborne Roosevelt Organs catalogue, reprint by the organ litterature
foundation)
H-J came *slightly* later.
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Right....I now understand. The Roosevelt design looks terribly crude to me, but then I discover that Hope-Jones made all sorts of outlandish claims about his actions operating on dry-cell batteries.
I guess his real contribution was in producing a RELIABLE action, using horseshoe magnets, and one which proved to have superb response and repetition.
Of course, he was a pioneer in logic-systems, and it would be difficult to improve on the electro-mechnical logic-circuits used in the "unit orchestra" or the later Wurlitzer organs.
Now I have this idea for a 1,500 psi compressed nitrogen organ-action, which I know would work.
Should I take my own life now, or leave it 'til later?
MM
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Thanks for that rather subversive page, MM,
(It seems H-J isn't seen as a devil everywhere)
BUT....Has H-J, or Wurlitzer,or both, got a patent or not,
this chest IS (just) another version of the Roosevelt chest.
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H-J was no devil.
It's an interesting thought, but Ralph Downe's favourite Diapason at Worecester (?) was the Hope-Jones one.
I've said this before, but the voicing of almost any Hope-Jones rank is rather good. The problem of H-J is to do with the age in which he lived, when people played nothing but transcriptions of orchestral works. The theatre organ was but a development of the orchestral organ, and when played as if it is an orchestra rather than an organ, it comes alive.
Most classical organists can't play a theatre organ because they think like classical organists rather than like arrangers.
I wonder who came up with the "Roosevelt" chest first? It must surely have been a version of the British H-J invention.
Although the H-J patents just trip into the 20th century (1901? 1902? or thereabouts), the actual design, if I recall correctly from memory, goes back to around 1892 (?), and the Wurlitzer version is only very slightly modified from the Hope-Jones drawings.
Of course, Aneesens were not far behind H-J, when they employed the Molls & (?) patented electric-action, but I believe it didn't work very well and caused a lot of problems.
MM
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You might try listenign - you might even learn something of spiritual benefit!
Not all sermons are boring. How would you feel if the audience sat reading books or whatever during your recital - or the choir's anthem?
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I've got to confess that I have written papers during recitals, read a fascinating book about old trains and practised the organ silently during just about every sermon I never listened to and, with considerable self-control, once carried out a small operation to my hand when I removed a large wooden spell from it as people took communion.
I've had old ladies knitting during concerts, people offering me aniseed balls during voluntaries, small children climbing aboard the console to watch and an old lag who consumed a whole bottle of sherry to the accompaniment of a Handel Organ Concerto with full-orchestra!
If God is love and music be the food of it, I guess I have a good excuse.
MM
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I originally assumed that this was the case. Apparently, technically, it is not. St. Mary's is the actual Parish Church. Whilst Beverly Minster has a Rector (or is it a Vicar?) and is also has a PCC, I presume that it is somewhat in limbo? Does anyone have any further information on ths slightly pink fish-thing...?
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You wouldn't think that Christians would be so eager to talk about size, but they do.
Holy Trinity, Hull, so far as I recall, was built originally as a "Chapel of ease", from which the bodies of the dead were floated up-river to suitable burial grounds....I think there was a "Black Death" connection somewhere along the line.
I think that the claims of Beverley Minster are a bit much....it was built as a Minster. Tewksbury was built as an abbey, Coventry got burned down, Southwark is now a cathedral and Bridlington PC was originally a priory (and a lot bigger than it is now).
At a guess, the largest TRUE parish church, built as such, must be St.Botolph's, Boston, but , Yarmouth,Redcliffe and Newark must be hot on its' heels, and the ground area of Halifax PC is huge.
That said, St.Mary's, Beverley, is quite an impressive pile, is it not?
I wonder what state that organ is in these days?
MM
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But when pipes are away from the console, the speed of sound comes into the equation - I think that's part of the reason that I don't like detached consoles - my preference for tracker action is more down to the "feel" and the immediacy of control.
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I didn't respond to Tony's comment above, possibly because I entirely agree with it.
However, it never ceases to amaze me how British and American organists especially, manage to get music from organs which are scattered far and wide.
I recall being about 14 years of age, and in awe of Virgil Fox....the Michael Schumacher of the organ world.....and reading such delightful sleeve-notes as "the Ethereal section is a whole city-block away."
Perhaps not as bad as the State Trumpet at St.John-the-Divine, New York, which is a whole Greyhound bus-ride away....talk about the next stop!
For years, cathedral organs have been located in strange places....inside rood-screens as well as atop them, in triforiums, scattered loosely in the side-aisles and, as at Blackburn, probably a greater height and distance away from the console than that achieved in man's first successful attempt at powered flight.
It is a miracle of cognitive ability that organists are able to compensate for the sonic quirks of far-flung pipework, but somehow, we do.
I recall a cartoon, which showed an organist seated at the console of Atlantic City, asking, "Where is the Dulciana?"
I suppose the real question should have been, "Precisely WHERE is the Dulciana?"
MM
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Quoting MM:-
>A Wurlitzer chest-action could not be simpler,
But in the example I played - in Thomas Peacocke School, Rye (before the recent restoration) the relays were also electro-pneumatic (small electric action valves controlling pneumatic motors that moved the switches in the relay - all enclosed in glass-fronted cabinets) - and the response was still lightning-fast.
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Tony is quite right. I had failed to mention the E.P. relays in the original Wurlitzer actions, which were so very clever and so very quick. The problem is that nowadays, the vast majority of "original" Wutlizer E.P.actions have been binned in favour of the various "fly-by-wire" computer controlled key/stop action systems, which eliminate the need for E.P. switching relays. That explains my error, for I don't think I have ever seen an original Wulitzer system complete!
I have also read somewhere, that Wurlitzer also used a primaryless chest in the earlier designs, but although they save the complexity of primary pneumatics, they create their own problems, and can be quite tricky to set-up.
Pierre suggests that I was describing a Roosevelt Chest, but in fact, the Wurlitzer chests were a development of the Hope-Jones patent designs, which can be seen at the following fascinating URL and which, in addition to the drawings, contains a description of the entire Wurlitzer action-mechanism:-
http://www.atosconvention.org/FileLib/Action.pdf
Perhaps the most interesting phrases in the entire article, is the suggestions that the possible repetition of notes has been estimated at about 20 times per second.
Of course, that's nothing as compared to the pneumatic-valves used on some Formula One racing cars, which can operate at up to 75 times per second.
Who said pneumatics were slow?
MM
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As I see it, there's no advantage whatsoever of pneumatc or electro-pneumatic over a well-made tracker action. Pure pneumatic action, by the nature of the beast, will always cause some "lag" in response - and particularly when the console is some distance from the pipes (the only reason, except on very large organs) for not using tracker. E-P is better, but I've only played one example that seemed to have a really adequate response - that was a Wurlitzer theatre organ with the action on something like 20-30" pressure, and only a small distance between console and pipes.
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A Wurlitzer chest-action could not be simpler, with vertically mounted secondary "exhaust" motors, and small primaries operated from air being cut-off or supplied from a solenoid-operated disc-valve. The vertically mounted secondary pneumatic-motors are connected to the small pipe-pallets via a "spoon" which turns the movement through 90 degrees.
Wurlitzer actions are extremely fast, with superb repetition, and only a real speed-merchant can actually beat the response.
The "hair-trigger" responses are probably due to the fact that the main pneumatic "secondary" motors are JUST big enough to give the eact amount of torque required to overcome the combined resistance of the pipe-pallet and its' spring, but not so big that they are slow to re-inflate when the key is released. The fact that each pneumatic motor only operates on one pipe at a time, rather than a whole slider-chest full of pipes, is perhaps the reason for the lightning response of the whole.
Because the electro-pneumatics key-actions are entirely contained within the individual unit-chests without a seperate wind-supply to the action, it is totally irrelevant as to how far the console is from the pipe-chambers, and on many installations, the pipes can be forty or more feet above the console, and sometimes divided across a whole auditorium.
Furthermore, there is often gross over-estimation of the wind-pressures employed on theatre organs. Most Wurlitzer organ flue-pipes such as strings, flutes and the less powerful reeds speak on about 7" wg. The more powerful Diaphonic pipes and Tubas/English Horns seldom exceed 15" wg, but there are certainly higher pressures employed on some of the real monster installations in the USA.
So, at an educated guess, the so-called action-pressure is normally no more than 15" maximum; that being the normal top-end of the pipe wind-pressure in the unit-chests.
I think the heaviest pressure employed on any theatre organ is that applied to the "Bugle" rank of the St.Fillipo residence-organ in the US.....it's quite a large residence! I seem to recall it to be on 100" wg, but it may be 50" wg. It is, of course loud....very, very loud....in fact, ear-splitting!! (I'd like to guess that there are no pneumatic motors involved in that particular rank, but I don't know for certain.
Lastly, whilst I've never actually seen an example stripped for inspection, I believe that the thumb-pistons actuate PNEUMATIC motors which control the movement of the stop-tabs on the console rails. That is the ONE THING which can be slow to respond on a well-worn Wurlitzer. Compton used a much more elegant system of far freater reliability, which I think was entirely electro-mechanical.
On the subject of pneumatic-actions, I used to play a Binns organ with the charge-pneumatic system. It had excellent feel, plenty of key-pluck, good speed and very adequate speed of repetition. It was then a mere 80 years of age, and only the primary motors had been re-leathered circa.year 70!!
MM
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Steel tuning wires or springs tend to go rusty in any building which is damp, which is why they then stick in the lead block. Nowadays, I think all organ builders use phosphor bronze wires which don't corrode. There is no influence on the tone at all. However, if one comes across such steel reed springs in an organ which is being restored and if they can be retained, they should be.
John Pike Mander
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I wonder if John could tell us roughly how long steel tuning-springs have been used. Phosphor-Bronze is the obvious choice, because it is naturally springy, and was often used as cheap but effective contact material on electronic organs....probably still is.
MM
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Passau is a "neo-classic" organ to be compared with a Danion-Gonzalez
or a Klais from the 80's.
So its upperwork is more suited to Messiaen or Duruflé than to Reger
or Howells.
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I can never quite understand why the music of Reger is somehow linked to contemporary organs during his life. People quote the organ at the Riga Dom, Latvia, which was built before Reger first slithered his way to the breast. As Karl Straube was involved in the design of the original Steinmeyer at Passau, it may well have been closer to what he and Reger had in mind musically.
The Steinmeyer at Passau was an early, and very deliberate attempt, to create an instrument which leaned towards neo-classicism. The Eisenbarth re-build was merely a continuation of that idea, with a bit of added "attitude" in the brass section.
The closely woven, counterpuntal nature of Reger's music is only able to truly come alive when played on an instrument which doesn't destroy it, which is probably why English organists continue to play Howells in preference.
"Toy" or not, I think I could enjoy living with the organ at Passau, whilst other German organists prefer a modern re-working of neo-classicism which seems to have very little to do with Baroque, Romantic or even contemporary music.
MM
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Organ music was still in a lull, but beginning to take off again. Of the big compositions, we would be restricted to Reubke, Liszt, Mendelssohn and perhaps Rheinberger. Important certainly, but is it important enough to justify the cost?
(citation)
Wouldn't this statment fit in the "repertoire mentality?"
A Schulze sounds superb, and that is all that's needed.
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We must ask what purpose restoration serves if it is not about music, and how music sounded originally.
I know it hits sensitive nerves in sensitive regions, but I suspect that the organ, as a musical instrument, must first serve the needs of music. Of course, I immediately know that this is a nonsense, because certain instruments are so good, that they stand apart as works of great art; and not just the great European organs we all admire so much.
Did F C Schnitger worry about the Hagabeer organ he enlarged at Alkmaar?
Did Arthur Harrison respect Fr.Willis reeds, or refuse to change Fr.Willis organs beyond recognition?
There are no answers: merely questions, but it is at least important that we approach change and/or restoration in an informed manner, and with the highest integrity. Once we go down the path of whim and fashion, we deserve what we get.
Incidentally, the Norman & Beard reeds are not great over-blown fog-horns. They are voiced on a modest 6" wg of wind, except for the addded Tuba, which is quite separate from the rest of the organ.
Of course, the absolute restoration of Doncaster would have resulted in the original absurdity of a fifth manual entirely derived from the Swell and Echo, with the exception of just one independent rank! It was never REALLY a 5-manual instrument, but it certainly LOOKED like one. The fifth manual was a glorious waste of money the first time around, and it would have been an equally glorious waste of public-funding to repeat the confidence-trick once again.
MM
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Without wishing to tread on toes here, I think this is a little bit of a sweeping statement. The 32ft reed at Doncaster is a bit of a bruiser to be sure. It is of a unique construction being a free reed. It is very difficult to regulate and I don't think we can be sure it is regulated. It may never have been. There is a similar stop in the other large Schulze organ at Markneukirchen. That one is quarter length rather than half length and when I heard it, it sounded wild, but I gather it has now been tamed. That one was a reconstruction of the original. The other reeds sounded interesting and not boring or that brash in Thuringia.
As to what might have happened at Doncaster had it been restored, it is all a bit academic now of course. But the following facts would (I think) have justified an authentic restoration:
1. It is the largest Schulze left anywhere in the world in restorable condition, in its original location.
2. Whilst there would inevitably have been some conjecture in the reconstruction, the more we looked at the organ and the more we saw in Thuringia when we went to investigate there, the less conjecture there was and the more clarity emerged. The winding, action, barker lever and all, could have been faithfully reproduced.
3. Musically, it would have been more stunning than interesting ..........
I honestly think that had the Doncaster organ been restored, many who now think it might have been a waste of time would have been converted. Just to sit at that grand console with all the innovative features of the time (not least the derived echo organ) would have been an experience.
John Pike Mander
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I think there has always been a case for restoration at Doncaster, but the funding would have been a huge problem for the church, bearing in mind that, as at Armley, it would have taken a very long time. An exact restoration would have been astronomically expensive. As notjing has been changed tonally, it is still a future possibility.
I can well understand exact (as possible) restorations of old Dutch organs for example, because these organs were contemporary to some rather important music........but is that true of Doncaster?
Organ music was still in a lull, but beginning to take off again. Of the big compositions, we would be restricted to Reubke, Liszt, Mendelssohn and perhaps Rheinberger. Important certainly, but is it important enough to justify the cost?
Also, there is the belief that the voicing at Doncaster may have been altered from the original, even though Norman & Beard claimed to "respect" the Schulze pipework. However, I have a copy of a document which Magnus Black unearthed, which suggests that Norman & Beard "regulated the pipe speech." That suggests messing around with the pipe-tips to compensate for the more explosive action of pneumatic motors.
As Mr Mander suggests, the provision of new reeds would have been conjectural. The ones that are now there are rather good and certainly in keeping with the chorus-work, but perhaps a good bit louder. We need to ask whether replacing the existing chorus reeds would serve a musical function, and if so, what? As for replacing any Clarinet or Orchestral Oboe with one copied from Schulze, that would be like copying a "smiley face" and sticking it over that of the "Laughing Cavalier."
I think it is possible to wear two hats when considering the Doncaster instrument, and I would personally wear one or t'other quite happily.
The only point I would argue with concerns the statement that the Doncaster organ is the only one in its' original home. I don't think this is quite true, for Schulze firm were involved in the installation of the Armley instrument at Armley. Furthermore, Schulze seems to have had a standard way of doing things, and God only knows what the organ must have sounded like in the organ-room of the Kennedy Mansion at Meanwood, or in the rather dead "barn" known as Harrogate Parish Church.
At Armley, the organ sounds tailor-made for the building, but it wasn't, as we all know. In fact, it is a least two and a half times the size of Harrogate PC, possibly ten times the size of the organ-room at Meanwood, and now enjoys a reverberation period which takes up a substantial part of the day.
Musically, both Doncaster and Armley have always been stunning of course, and they still are. Small mercies are better than none at all, I suppose.
MM
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There have been some wonderful eastern European organ works broadcast on BBC Radio 3 - in the middle of the night, of course! It would be good to hear some of this repertoire live, but can it be made to work on a bottom-heavy romantic english organ?
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I am told that there is some wonderful Hungarian contemporary-music, which includes organ-music, but this is an area which I have yet to really get to grips with. However, they certainly have some wonderful sounding organs there; some of which have undergone improvement to the often patchy quality of work done during the communist days. Visusally, the Hungarians seem to have a real "eye" for contemporary beauty, with some exquisite case and console designs.
Fact of musical life......between 1945 and 1985, the area now known as the Czech Republic has produced 20,000 new classical-music compositions, of which a considerable number include organ-works, choral-works and excitingly, works for organ and other instruments. All this from a country about the size of Scotland with no more than 10,000,000 people!
Poland is a relatively poor country even now, but due to the fact that almost 90% of the population are staunchly catholic, the church has money. There are fine new organs being installed, and one of the best is the Eule organ at St.John's, Warsaw. As for organ-cases and historic instruments, Poland has a rich tradition, but some of the organs are in poor condition. However, the organ-cases are often absolute treasures of visual art, and that at Gdansk cathedral (formerly Danzig)starts where Weingarten leaves-off.
For those who like very large instruments, there are quite a few 5-manual instruments in the Eastern European region, and a few come close to the scale of their more famous counterparts at Liverpool and Passau, but we never hear about them.
For those who like their French organs, but find that most of the churches are closed in France these days, they should perhaps head off to Budapest. The organ of St.Matthews has it all, including chamades and rip-roaring pedal reeds.
I have a huge amount of information on my computer, and I've recently been writing a number of substantial articles about Eastern European organs and organ-music. Should anyone wish to see them, or perhaps share further information on the subject, I would invite them to contact me privately.
I have been quite excited to learn that musical life didn't stop with the deaths of Dupre and Langlais.
MM
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I'm sorry, but I find your view of music groups downright insulting. What right have you got to say that your Latin music is any more sacred than anything else -
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It's called "freedom of speech" Tony.
MM
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In fact, the Marshall & Ogeltree installation at Trinity Church, New York, is mighty impressive..........
Is this really true, and have you heard it and played it? Because a source who does not wish to be named has told me that it is dreadful .....
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Well it depends how one would use the word dreadful.
Everyone can hear this organ for themselves, by joining the following:-
http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com
Look under organists, and then Douglas Marshall playing works on the organ.
Of course it isn't pipes, but dreadful isn't the word I would use to describe it, unless one happens to be an almost unknown NY organ-builder with a chip on his shoulder.
MM
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Go to almost any recital, and the chances are, the music will consist of Bach, French Romantic music and something by Howells. It's a predictable recipe.
Is no-one aware of the huge corpus of quality organ-music (much of it contemporary) from Eastern Europe?
This is really where it is "happening," yet we ignore it or don't know about it.
Has anyone ever heard a Brixi Organ Concerto or the Preludes & Fugues of Seger?
As for the organs, some sound absolutely fabulous and others are incredibly historic.
What do the organ-building names of Michael Engler, Pecs, Rieger or Josef Angster mean to anyone?
Which organ has the most fantastic organ-case in Europe, with carved moving figures on it?
Which Eastern European organ-builder took the sound of Cavaille-Coll back home with him?
Eastern Europe isn't the planet "Zog," but it IS a whole new world awaiting discovery by organists who think there is no future.
MM
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I personally believe there are lots and lots of organs in the UK that are treasures of *european* heritage. Halas, we are too few to believe that.
(Of course, many are small jobs not suited for Bach...)
The "repertoire" debate (what can be played according "to the books" on a dedicate organ) is a typically neo-baroque one. Thus it should already be old-fashioned.
No matter the repertoire, provided any organ has a style (which one does not matter).
I also believe there exists no "progress" in art, there are only styles.
Schulze's reeds were intended just to color the Diapason choruses. Like Walcker's,
and like any baroque german ones. So N&B's aren't "better", they are different!
Indeed the very word "better" is doubtfull as long as differing organ styles
are concerned.
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It's not often I make a really stupid statement, but I did!
Of course, there are many British instruments which are treasures of European heritage. I think most would agree with all the big three Liverpool instruments being just that, and to which could be added numerous Fr.Willis instruments, St.Mary Redcliffe, Beverley Minster etc etc.
Also, a great deal of repertoire was written for these instruments, and those like them.
What I intended to say, but failed to do so miserably, was to make the suggestion that we do not have many very old organs in Britain such as may be found across almost the whole of mainland Europe, from France right across to Latvia, and from Sweden right down to Spain. Consequently, exact historical restoration is not really our great priority as it is in Holland, Germany and elsewhere.
I'm sorry to disagree with Pierre concerning Schulze reeds, which are very, very ordinary sounding things. As I explained previously, the 32ft reed at Doncaster is completely mis-scaled.
Generally speaking, English (and American) reeds tend to be the best in the world, and Norman & Beard were especially good at them for the most part.
Now what about those Cavaille-Coll reeds?
I can hear the clamour already.
To which I would reply, "The German who voiced many of them was something of a genius!"
Myths and legends are such fun. I wonder how many Fr.Willis reeds were ever touched by him?
Cavaille-Coll reeds are so unique aren't they?
Well no, as a matter of fact. Fall asleep on a train and wake up in Budapest, Hungary in time for an organ-recital, and you would probably think you were back in Paris. Go behind the old iron curtain, and there are three countries, each with a fantastic organ heritage which seldom get a mention in Western Europe, but that's another story.
MM
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Our friend Yannick Merlin just commenced the english version of his website. These pages are dedicated to the actuality of the organ in Alsace such as restaurations, recitals, articles etc.
Hope this might be interesting,
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I would also commend this splendid site, which has much to teach us about the development of the French organ.
However, I wonder if Pierre knows anything about Jean Widor, the grand-father of Charles Marie Widor, who was from the Alsace region and reputed to be an organ-builder. Widor's father composed a "Priere" which I have never heard. Apparently, the Widor family origins are Hungarian, and Liszt was known to play the organ where Widor's father was the organist.
I was trying to find out something about this, but unfortunately, the wonderful web-site about Alsace organs stops-short of a full Widor biography or the origins of the Widor dynasty.
Alsace was also the region which gave rise to the organ-builder who attacked the Cliquot organ of St.Sulpice, Paris, with a large axe whilst he was restoring it!!
Is there something in the water supply of the Alsace region?
MM
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If you want to hear a mixed pipe/digital organ that is less than entirely satisfactory, try St Peter's, Addingham (near Ilkley). It is a small carpeted building and has the driest acoustic I have ever come across in a church. The organ is about 50% digital. The individual digital stops are (largely) very nice played singly, and it can be difficult to tell which stops are digital and which pipes. But when put together, they fails to blend into a convincing whole.
It is my belief that one can get away with digital stops provided:
[*]There aren't too many
[*]They are at the bass end only
[*]The acoustics are good
[*]You are lucky
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Oddly enough Nick, there is another church with an equally disastrous acoustic close to that abomination they call an organ at Addingham.
Try Ilkley Parish Church, with the sort of acoustic normally associated with the soft-furnishing section of a department-store. Low roof, side-aisles with even lower roofs, a cramped chancel, carpets....the perfect recipe for disaster.
Switch on the rather substantial Compton organ, with its' Lewis origins, and it sounds quite wonderful in that building.
What I cannot believe is the sheer stupidity of those involved with the organ at Addingham, which was probably the worst organ ever made, with its' scratchy Diapasons, opaque Flutes and characterless reeds. Why add anything digital and second best, to something which is "normally aspirated" but fifth-rate at best?
It is actually an insult to the digital-organ, but it's what happens when the consultant is a digital designer!!
Go up the road to Skipton Parish Church, where there is also a very dry acoustic. It is one of the finest sounds you will ever hear (at the console), but it is badly placed. That was a result of a wonderful collaboration between a consultant who knew what was needed, and an organ-builder who genuinely tried to create a half-decent instrument using second-hand pipes.....with fabulous results. It is the perfect 20-something stop Anglican instrument.
There are many, many redundant organs....some of them tracker....which just need some decent pipework or the attention of an expert voicer. A hundred years later, long after the extra cost has been forgotten, it will still be piping away happily and making real music on its' fourth new blower.
MM
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The elctronic devices on Blackburn do not work well at all and are audibly electronic. The golden rule has to be that you do not put inferior stuff on an organ to what is there. There was no excuse to do this at Blackburn other than sheer whim. That's all it was. Furthermore, the electolux stops failed dismally at the reopening, and were a major embarrassment. Electronics will never match real pipes with real wind going through them, it's a very complex matter, even down to the intitial speech of a pipe and how it affects the air, and is percieved by the human ear as such. All electronics should be burnt, preferably today, they have done nothing whatever to the artistic merit of any organ, and have not helped the cause for pipe organs. You dont see the Mona Lisa being replaced by a cheap print. Ditto a whole organ, or even one single stop.......or pipe.
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Although we are essentially here by courtesy of a very respected PIPE organ-builder, I believe that proper discussion of digital additions is valuable, if only as a way of knowing what to avoid.
I think we are pushing cognitive recognition a bit far by claiming that the 32ft (especially) is "audibly electronic".....John Compton could fool us all with a Polyphone which ended at EEEE, and no one ever complains about "missing notes."
Polyphones are also extremely "flat" sounding devices, and as "electronic" in quality of sound as a pipe is capable of.
When the "electrolux" registers broke down at the inaugural recital, it was due to a "spike" in the power supply, which could presumably have been avoided.
The best digital manufacturers are perfectly capable of synthesising proper individual pipe-speech these days, but the best do not come cheap. In fact, the Marshall & Ogeltree installation at Trinity Church, New York, is mighty impressive, and has prompted some favourable comment and not a little admiration.
However, I don't think ANYONE could be fooled into thinking that this recent Trinity Church installation is the equal of the Mander organ of St.Ignatious Loyola, also in NY.
Nevertheless, it is good....very good.
Good violinists admire Stradivari, good pianists admire Bechstein or Steinway, and what we, AS MUSICIANS must avoid, is going down a path which leads to critical acceptance of what can only, by definition, be second best rather than third-rate.
Once price dictates the pace of art, we are onto the slippery slope of increasing mediocrity, which is not the same thing as suggesting that the many very good digital instruments are mediocre....they are not. They are, neverthless, second-best, and should therefore be the last option rather than the first.
As organists, we may admire the efforts of digital builders, but we all know where our true affections are, hopefully!
MM
PS: I drew a moustache on my cheap print of the Mona Lisa, and she takes pride of place alongside the dart-board.
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This topic shouldn't be here at all, unless we also seriously consider adding a moustache to the Mona Lisa or adding some extra columns to Stonehenge. To seriously propose mixing digital and pipes is no less a bastardisation of ideals and principles, and one which absolutely no other field of art or culture would entertain. If money NEEDS spending, then it's going to be something like action or soundboards or a simple wash and brush up. Adding stops or whole divisions is NOT a need, it's a want. Ego, ego, ego, as with so much else in this insular and confused world we inhabit...
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If the Mona Lisa had a moustache, we would all be able to share the enigmatic smile. I once saw a bearded lady in Blackpool.....
However, returning to organs and digital additions, it isn't just a case of ego, ego, ego.
Take the recent re-build at Blackburn Cathedral; an organ which has always been quite thrilling in recital, but one which is not the easiest on which to accompany. It has always lacked a little bit of gravity in the pedal. The ideal solution would have been the provision of a 32ft and 16ft Open Wood, but there simply wasn't room to install one in such a way that it could make sense. The "chambers" (shelves?) are just big enough to carry what is there, and no more.
The additional Walker Digital registers have circumnavigated the problem and they are invaluable in service music rather than recital music.
Perhaps they don't quite "move air" in the same way that Open Wood registers do, but they are certainly not out of place in the ensemble.
Of course, adding a whole new digital manual would be another matter, but that hasn't been done at Blackburn.
The core Walker instrument sounds just the way it did before, so nothing has been ruined by the addition of the digital stops.
Real rather than fake would have been nice, but what they now have sounds quite acceptable to my ears.
MM
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I have a good sound system running from my PC, but I had to pinch myself to believe I was listening to an organ. What an awful sound. I thought I was listening to a very bad electronic.
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If you listen carefully, I think you will find that it is simply a demo of the reeds only.
You can't expect W C Jones reeds on a German Romantic instrument!
Sauer organs sound quite wonderful, so long as you like those tierce mixtures.
MM
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As I stated previously, the funding of things in the UK from lottery funds, is fraught with difficulties, because it has to be in the manner of restoration, and in any event, does not cover the full amount. No doubt someone will know how much the "client" has to raise by themselves, but as Doncaster is a church isolated by a ring-road and has few parishioners, fund-raising would be a problem.
The late Magnus Black (A fomer organist at Doncaster PC) left his entire estate to the church, and I think it formed the back-bone of the refurbishment and new console by Andrew Carter/Nicholson.
I can see no real musical advantage in re-making a Barker-lever action, or restoring the Schulze version of the cone-valve chests used in the pedal organ at Doncaster for the extensions. Furthermore, the old "Schulze" reeds would have been a complete travesty in any event, and the 32ft Posaune remains so! Musically, the Norman & Beard reeds are far superior, and surely, music should be at the heart of any decision?
Apart from one or two "authentic" but small instruments in Europe, the only organ which really demonstrates the Schulze sound almost completely, is that at St.Bart's, Armley.
We are constantly in the dilemma of whether restoration takes precedence over musical considerations, and it begs the question as to whether organ-building is a greater art than organ-music, or vice-versa. Is authentic Mendelssohn worth £1,000,000?
I personally do not feel that there are THAT many organs in the UK which are treasures of English heritage or for which a great deal of music was actually written.
MM
Pneumatic Actions
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
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I don't expect that they knew each other at the time, but in any event, H-J was probably dabbling with more electricity than any organ-builder had ever seen at the time......you know....telephones.
H-J great contribution to the world was in the use of telephone signalling as a means of controlling the logic required of extension organs, and in making sea-journeys a tad safer. Not many inventions last quite so long in regular use as these, but the Jacquard loom must be included also.
It's interesting to realise that a textile-engineer made the fair-organ possible, and a telephone-engineer gave a fair-organ maker a whole new industry.
I wonder how many people know that the Wurlitzer company had a history which could be traced back to the 16th century, as highly respected violin-makers in Germany, and that the Wurlitzer approval of authenticity is still recognised at all major auction houses and musical-instrument dealerships?
Who knows, Bach may have played a Wurlitzer.