David Coram
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Posts posted by David Coram
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If your tuner says that the bat pins are bending, he must be able to show you some deformed ones, though I've never seen one! I would reckon it would take more than a heavy-handed player to do that - someone seriously ham-fisted with the long-nosed pliers could do it, but even then this sounds a surprising ailment. I accept what you say about the keyboard feeling 'clicky': replacing the hard green felt beneath the keys ought to cure this. For a single experienced builder to carry this operation out on all four manuals couldn't take more than a few days - for a bill under $1000 anyway! Try asking for that.
If odd notes click more than others, once again a little felt can be introduced where there is excessive play. A whole box of brand new (high grade) bats pins might be a good idea. Even with all these extras, you're still talking of relatively few materials and about one man's time for a week. How does that sound to you Porthead?
Never mind long-nosed pliers, you'd need a hammer and a vice to do it. The wood would surely give way first.
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I hope they're not trying to bamboozle you.
That was my worry too. I have seen countless Walker keyboards of this generation, and earlier, and never known any of them have a problem, even in temperature/humidity extremes. In any case, the first symptom of atmospheric problems I would expect to see would be the key coverings coming away. I regularly see six from the mid 60s and five from the mid 50s which have had no attention at all other than a light dusting in the intervening years.
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Were P&S involved by 1979? I thought they came on board later than that.
Even though quite a weight is involved in pressing the key, it doesn't take much friction to make 'em stick down and as Cynic says the bat pins at the front are the most usual source of bother.
Later in your post you say that the keys themselves are fine but the action behind it is knackered - that is of course a totally different ball game.
Are the ends of the keyboards a fairly ornate rosewood scrollwork, or plain?
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Bill Drake's organ sounds fabulous: I hope this pleases Heckelphone.
I am indeed well pleas-ed. It's possibly my favourite Drake instrument, that one. I met Mr Warrell a couple of years ago and my goodness could he play.
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Briefly (because it is late and I have to be in school fairly early tomorrow):
3) Yes, but I expect that there are still compromises. I would be interested to hear of an English 18th century organ which had a 16ft. Pedal reed - or even an independent 4ft stop, as originally constructed. (Or, for that matter, possessed a 'C oriented' 30/56-note compass. Neither would it have had electric light or electric blowing. If one is intending to make a copy, it seems to me that it should have total integrity. Otherwise, if one is to 'cheat' on some bits, why not cheat on others?
The pedals are treated as a logical downward extension of the manuals, and the stop names (Trumpet, Stopped Diapason) reflect this. Because of this the manual notes GG-BB become redundant. A different approach was taken at Grosvenor Chapel the previous year.
It doesn't have electric light btw
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I remember reading, in one of those huge, yearly company listing books, (I forget the name....it was blue), that Compton-Makin (I think), were a part of the huge Bibby group of companies.
Amongst many other things, Bibby provide small business financing and invoice factoring. I've used them myself for a small business with vast cash value of stock in production. Could it be a simple explanation that a small company in a similar position would rely on such a service for cashflow stability?
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On the subject of the Gloucester console - can anyone tell me why in pictures at least it looks as if an extra key cheek has been added at the treble end?
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I think in 1971 they wanted to prepare for the eventuality of taking it up to C4.
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1) I am not convinced that a single 16ft. flue is adequate for the G.O. and Swell stop lists. I would be concerned that, either it would be too loud for quiet stops, or inadequate for fuller registrations.
2) I should still prefer the resources of the previous instrument (what was wrong with it, incidentally?).
3) On an organ of this size, I should prefer Swell strings, rather than yet another Cornet.
4) I would simply find this organ too limiting in its specification.
In haste, not out of rudeness but because I have the aftermath of sausage-frying to deal with -
1) It is, take my word for it. As are the others I mentioned in Oxford, plus other notable ones like Clifton Cathedral.
2) It was knackered (action and soundboards) and the gallery was collapsing under the weight of all the additions.
3) You could do that, but it wouldn't be an English organ in the 18th century style any more.
4) It's got more variety than Romsey, if you trade a choice of Tierce or Quint mixtures for a tenor C Cremona. You could add doubles and Clarions, but it would then be too large for the building it's in, so what's the point? Plenty of other larger buildings where such things are useful.
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My point was that, yes, of course there is a native repertoire for this - but that I might get bored after a few weeks. I quite like the odd bit of Walond, Wesley et al - but I think that I would find it a little restrictive after a short while. I expect that one could play Bach and Buxtehude on it quite nicely - which is good. However, even its predecessor managed two or three 16ft stops. The G.O. is, for my taste, somewhat out of proportion to the Pedal Organ.
It's most comfortable with everything up to and including Mendelssohn, and a fair bit since (the Hurford/Jackson English school, convincing Hindemith, etc). It's got two 16ft stops, and doesn't need three because the two it's got (Stopped Diapason and Trumpet) are so good. The same is true of St John's Aubertin (3m, Pedal Bourdon + reed), University Church (3m, Pedal Subbass + reed) et al. The Great looks out of proportion in terms of number of stops because it has a divided Trumpet and a solo Cornet.
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On NC - I don't think I'd like to try and play Elgar on it, certainly not on the wireless. There is masses and masses of music appropriate for it - virtually everything up to 1850 and everything after 1950. Whatever are they thinking of? The action is definitely a weak point, as is the voicing after it was 'gone over' in the 80s. The recordings which exist from before that time suggest an altogether different creature.
On Jesus - the casework isn't bright red. There seems to be only one photograph of this organ extant, and it's been brightened up somewhat. There were at one time plans to restore the architrave on the gallery, I believe. It's probably not the best instrument in the world for the French symphonic school, but it's far more musical than most of its contemporaries (especially the monster over the road) and I will pay you a million strings and doubles for that added bonus. To be honest, your Vierne is unlikely to fare any better at Brasenose, Queens, Univ, Magdalen, Wadham, Lincoln, Merton or any other 2 manual sub-20 stop instrument I can think of.
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To Bin? New College. Sorry, but I just cannot make myself like anything about it
Excellent! Just waiting to hear someone to say that so I could agree! Not just the sound, but also the looks...isn't it just terrible when you see it from behind!
Here's someone willing to stick up for New College. It is what it is - no escaping that. But imagine for a moment a similarly-specified 3m with that much upperwork by Collins or HNB or Church or just about anyone and you will begin to see what a remarkable achievement that instrument is. It's almost the only neobaroque job I know where you can pull just about any combination and play in just about any octave and it won't make you shriek with laughter. Queens also achieves this. The only other instrument on that scale or larger which I know from first-hand experience to be the same is St Mark's Cathedral Seattle - a vast Flentrop machine significantly rebuilt with new actions (and just a little light revoicing) by Paul Fritts. Now if he could come and do New College, it would finally have the action it deserves... For appearances, I am always happy to see something brave enough to be a statement of its time. Whilst it's brutally unsympathetic to its surroundings, it is at least brave and consistent and well exectued. The same cannot be said of so many instruments of its type trying to be bold statements.
In conclusion, while pcnd and Richard find themselves unable to make themselves like it, I'm unable to make myself dislike it because, crucially, I can see what they were trying to achieve and they did so to a good standard.
I'm staggered that nobody else has had anything to say about Jesus College. I have never encountered any other instrument anywhere so well suited to its space. It seems to be ignored or overlooked as being in some way quirky because of a lack of pistons and Celestes. Like a lot of Drake's other instruments, it still feels brand new. Go and play it at once!
Metzlers - I used to adore the University Church instrument, mostly because my main experience of it was playing on 8 and 4 only. When you add upperwork, it does become catastrophically big. I am told there was some kind of feud in the Metzler firm at the time and one of the project's leading lights (the case designer I think) left midway through. Up until about 5 years ago, it still felt like new. Last time I was there it was starting to show its age - not in a bad way, just a little baggy round the edges like any 25 year old machine would be.
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I suppose I will just "chip in" with my tuppence worth.
As a mason, and knowing 3 "grand organists" personally, all I can say is about the fundraising bit. My dad organises a recital in Durham cathedral once a year, and raises about £ 5 - 600 for his chosen charity, and this year will be his last, as his health is failing now, and I asked him if one of the board members could give said recital. And that has now been put down in the diaries for October.
There has been a couple of programmes recently, that looked at the building of places of worship, and the strong masonic presense. And as far as organs been built there, well, I can only echo what has been said, people buy from people they know, and whose work is respected
Peter
Quite. So, now we have an example of the breed in the flesh, as it were, are there any records which might be consulted to see who might have been a member - Snetzler, HC Lincoln, Hill, G&D, Greene?
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Why did they ever need organs anyway?
Well, there's the many Masonic Halls. I was more getting at day-to-day life rather than what goes on behind closed doors. Since part of the Masonic code is belief in a supernal being, most congregations have a fair sprinkling; many gravitate to posts of office such as Churchwarden because of an inherent willingness to give freely and patiently of time, skills and frequently money.
Therefore, there is already good grounds to suppose that a large but generally local firm, such as Hele, might have found advantage by becoming members of an organisation where they can network with representatives of most churches on their 'patch'. This is a more subtle question than talking about dodgy deals done whilst prancing round in aprons.
A study of Mozart's masonic connections results in unembarassed discussion of patronage, support for opera and the arts and so on; I was rather hoping this could go the same way.
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... we were duty bound to create a water-tight, auditable, trail showing that everything had been done fairly and that everyone had been given an equal chance.
I confess to being slightly tickled by the notion of creating a watertight audit trail, rather than merely keeping one. Very civil service! Meant in the nicest possible way.
I'll get my coat, and tin hat, and pay my self-assessment bill pronto...
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My experience is that the sort of dark, underhand dealing implied here is extremely rare.
There wasn't meant to be any implication of dark, underhand dealing - it's a fact of life that people buy from people. If you already know people who offer particular goods or services, it's as natural as drawing breath to make the connection. If, in particular, you are engaged in charitable activities with a philanthropic bent, it's merely a legitimate extension of your stated aims to help someone get on as well as to give them financial support.
Masonic funds help a lot of people, for instance through music college, and when there are masonic concerts locally you will often find they have hired a cellist or pianist who has recently been supported by them. I therefore wondered if a young Henry Willis or Arthur Harrison, say, might have had some sort of boost to their early steps.
Organ building contracts very seldom begin with a flick through Yellow Pages; it's usually word of mouth, and at that sort of expense it needs to be the word of someone you trust. That brotherly trust appears to be a significant strength of the organisation.
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Several things have led me to wonder about this - a few wry remarks elsewhere on the board, a couple of significant masonic funerals at my own parish (in particular a noteworthy FRCO and former St Paul's countertenor lay clerk). We know about masonry amongst composers; we know about masonry in lots of places, but has anyone paused to give serious thought as to whether masonry has been influential in the building of organs and the selection of contractors?
A quick NPOR search for Freemasons and Masonic Temple yielded a good 80 or so results, which appear to be about 60% populated by Willis and G&D, only one Walker and rather a lot of other (presumably local) names, many of which I'm not familiar with. There are very few geographic surprises.
But considering that, for example, St Paul's Cathedral had (or has) its own lodge, one supposes there is a degree of influence somewhere.
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Interesting thought - I guess it depends on your circumstances but would that be enough to allow one to indulge one's vocation? We all have to pay the bills!
The basic salary, not including the house, would double my earnings for the past year - which include a major church job, three regular choral societies and about half a dozen occasional ones, concerts, CD sales, rental income on a property, university teaching, organ building and political work. I'd say it was a stupendous salary. I'm glad I don't have your bills!
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Interesting this - I went to a 'meet' there a long while back ('can't remember which lot with) and we had a demonstration of the Exeter College organ. Someone from Walkers also came and talked about its genesis - I seem to remember him being quite forthright and almost defensive about the ideas behind it - 'not sure why as (for a change maybe) no one there was arguing. I also remember the sound being decidedly brash and not much like the C-C sound that it was vaguely in the style of - or at least the C-Cs I have heard. I found it lacking also in the 'awe and wonder' one might have hoped to expect with an especially rampant 16' reed somewhere behind the outer pedal display pipes. However - I have a recording of the Durufle Requiem recorded there and on this it sounds fine - likewise a CD of organ and choral music by Philip Wilby uses this venue and on this too the organ comes over well.
A
My only fading memories are -
1) The outer pedal display pipes aren't - they're painted onto a sheet of MDF to look like pedal display pipes
2) I hit my head at least three million times on a stupidly low casework finnial
3) Your assessment of its volume and other qualities is somewhat accurate
I was around Ox in the early 90s when it went in. Jesus, over the road, was going in at exactly the same time. Drake and his men were on site for about 3 1/2 months all told, most of it voicing. Exeter turned up late one night in three pantechnicons and, it is said, 72 hours later the job was finished. I don't like repeating gossip and hearsay* but I would be interested to know how many of the stories about subsequent new soundboards and new keyboards and new actions are true. I can tell you that the tuning book at Jesus contains a reference to a pedal reed pipe which lost its tongue sometime in about 1998, but as of the last time I saw it (2005) that was the only fault which had occurred.
* - that's a complete lie - I LOVE it
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Is it really that bad? I've played it, and it didn't seem all that bad. The reed in the box was a bit odd though.
It's one of life's mysteries to me why people are still ordering these half-voiced, mechanically suspect 1960s imitation north german baroque contraptions. I must be msising something. On balance, it's better than Exeter, Ox.
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...which is why I wish I could be in Paris tomorrow for all the Cavaillé-Coll-related events.
You're only a couple of hours away by train, car OR plane! Do it, man!
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28 July this year sees the centenary of Robert Ashfield's birth (Cathedral Organist at Rochester 1955-77 and of Southwell Minster before that).
And in about a fortnight, it would have been Tony Scott's 100th birthday - what better way to celebrate than to listen to the only commercially available recording of his music, in the shape of two organ preludes on my smash hit record...
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I am strugging to think of a single occasion (or piece of organ music appropriate to cathedral worship in the third quarter of the twentieh century) when such devices as xylophones, chimes, a celesta or even a bass drum would have been sorely missed.
Aston in F, Lyngham...
bellows continued
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Oh, jelly bags. Yuck! I don't like the wind they give - a brittle, teeth chattering sort of bouncy, rather than a fluid one. That's my least favourite feature of the Oxford Metzler.