David Coram
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Posts posted by David Coram
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That explains why so much French romantic music is so full of wind!
"Anches" and everyone runs for cover.
More seriously, the CC compass was NOT a Willis invention. It was probably sparked off by Mendelssohn via his friend Dr Gauntlett and the organ-builder William Hill, which also gained rapid favour around Manchester; a far more cosmopolitan and forward looking city than London at the time.
To quote from that excellent TV series about Victorian Britian, presented by Jeremy Paxman, "If you wanted to see the future, you went to Manchester."
There were lots of CC compass organs around before Willis even set up in business.
Anyway, apart from Ceasar Franck and maybe early Saint Saens, most of the French repertoire is from later on in the 19th century and well into the 20th century, and by that time, they had invented all sorts of playing aids in England and in Germany, so I don't fully understand the point about ventils controlling the musical agenda.
MM
Ventils don't control the musical agenda. But Franck and Widor and Vierne, amongst many others, wrote their music specifically to exploit the registration aids available, and that makes it unlike quite any other nation's music. In Franck, you almost always have the Oboe out, and when you add something it's quite often reeds and Mixtures together. No Rollschwellers or general pistons here, and had there been then Franck's 3 Chorales could not possibly have been as they now are - it's all about the ventils.
The side point about Willis and CC compass (and I love GG too, Tony) was to suggest that others at that time tended to approach things in a more conservationist fashion. Hill or G&D confronted with an old England or Smith or Jordan might well have made a case for preserving some of the material or character of what was there already. (Walker did just that, at Bristol in 1907 when the city was not far off its wealthiest.) Willis led the way in chucking it all out and starting again. How often do you come across a Willis I rebuild? (This isn't meant to be derogatory - if you've got the orders, fulfil 'em - that's the way Ken Tickell does it, and it's only very rarely he branches out into rebuilding.)
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Had French cathedrals been filled with Walcker or Willis organs exclusively, I suspect that the repertoire would have been written in much the same way as it was, but let's not diminish the importance of Cavaille-Coill or his considerable abilities.
I think you have only to think of the very different means of controlling organs (ventils, for instance) to realise that this could not have been the case.
If it hadn't been for Willis, we'd still quite likely have cathedrals full of GG-compass instruments on the crossing...
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This works exceptionally well.
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As for doing ANYTHING to a Wurlitzer trumpet...even picking one up without wearing white cotton-gloves.....I am shocked....yellow card for that I'm afraid.
The "nameless but famous one" needs to be exposed after this.
MM
hmm... if you cast your mind back over organ history, you will realise that the famous names who have been amongst the most radical (some might say disrespectful) in their treatment of the tonal work of others have been - Henry Willis I and III, Arthur Harrison, John Compton... any more for this list?
And getting at the slider seals - yes, pipes then rackboard then upperboard and the slider will just lift away, assuming the stop action just slots through a hole (it might be clamped). Don't do upperboard screws back up too tight (assess as you undo, but by your description of the stop action they're too tight already), wind the screws back in the holes to find the thread before doing back in, use the same screw in the same hole. Get shot of all the dirt and let airborne dust settle before you go down to the depths. A day's work in total, aside from the time to get hold of the slider seals and let the glue dry (don't use PVA!).
If that (getting hold of the seals) is going to take a couple of weeks or more, mark up a bit of hardboard, drill holes and put it back together to give yourself a permanent 16'. Whether you do or don't, vac out the chest again at the time of reassembly to shift any grot off the pallet before it has the chance to be compressed in and cause problems.
An organ builder who charges about £300-£350 for a day's tuning would probably do the job for that.
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Oh, either from Wimborne Minster shop - or myself.
Darndest thing - mine too - Romsey Abbey shop - or myself - or animalsongs.co.uk if you want to hear it played with a piano! What a small world.
On a serious note, it would be interesting to set up an experiment like this in the way that Collins/Padgham/Parker did with temperaments a few years back - same pieces, same organist, different tunings, audience mixed of those who knew about organs and those who didn't. (Needless to say, equal temperament did quite badly - because, objectively speaking, it's a foul tuning.)
Happily, there is a lot more discussion on Romantic temperaments, particularly in relation to pianos, in the last year or so. There has been a recent Liszt recording in an old temperament (though they chose rather a curious one) in which a particular moment in one of the pieces (which usually sounds vile) suddenly makes total sense as if heard for the first time. A fascinating field which far too many still turn their nose up at.
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As all the other notes work all right when the stop is only 2/3rds or so drawn, it may be possible to engineer a little free-play into the operation of that slider, and introduce some sort of buffer to prevent the slide opening as far as it does now.
Why is life never simples?
At the very least, I've discovered that the poor speech of the pipe has nothing to do with the cut-up; just as I suspected.
MM
More simples still is to have a look down the hole with a torch - and the one next to it - while someone works the stop. The leak at the fully on position certainly suggests a slider seal has got crushed sideways - it happens. You can get paper sprung ones from KA but we prefer to make our own.
If it's happened once, and you've got to dismantle the whole thing to replace one, you may as well replace the whole lot. More by PM.
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As DW says, splits or a loose stopper is the usual cause of these things, but is it on the soundboard? If not, a pair of size 12s might have squashed the kopex/conveyance flat!
There is also the possibility of something between the pallet and the block, maybe a dislodged slider seal. Less likely than a split, but possible nonetheless.
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Carbon fibre s a wonderful material, but a bit expensive. After all, it uses much the same materials as real wood, but in very stable carbonated form, with greater torsional rigidity and almost certainly a resistance to heat and damp which no wood can match.
If that is "selling," then so be it......the facts are the facts.
There's always cast titanium alloy for the discerning of course.
The organ I play uses aluminium tubing, and it never goes wrong. If something works well, why not use it?
If something works badly, then something has to change.
Between keys and pipes, the organ is only a machine after all.
MM
I knew you'd say that, and let me be right there in order to point out that carbon fibre is desperately expensive, as you say, but also somewhat brittle and fragile. I wouldn't use it for anything with a mechanical job to do because of its propensity to just let go and shear or shatter when encountering any kind of lateral force, of the sort which frequently happens when a tuner misplaces an elbow on the way in or out of the case. Wood forgives, is cheap, and has plenty enough strength for me!
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...listeners were not even informed that the Company now had no connection with this wonderful family.
I don't suppose it matters, since a great majority of household names are now brand names retained in commemoration of their founder rather than the name of the current proprietor. It would be a strange situation if Marks & Spencer or Ford were compelled to change their name every time there was a change of management.
If someone buys the firm and all the intellectual property, records etc relating to that firm, then they have every right to be unquestioningly recognised as the head of that firm and all its brand identity.
Do you know the last Henry very well?
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Alternatively, you could purchase a copy of the somewhat more recent CD (2005) which was recorded on this instrument (VIF Records).
Really? Where's it available from?
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A length of 2" mahogany will be a darned sight more stable and much less noisy than anything which has been come along since. Eliminate unwanted movement and eliminate (ok, minimise) friction and make it out all of wood with phosphor bronze ends and leather buttons, and you will have a solution which never goes wrong.
Cue MM to sell the benefits of carbon fibre trackers...
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Can anyone point me towards diagrams/line drawings of different sorts of organ pipe? (Or would Mr Mander's drawing office like to make me a set?!) Preferably copyright free. For use in a CD booklet.
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I was always playing that pedal note in the 'echo' section of the Eb Prelude as a keyboard note - it is totally obvious. The unmusicality of it when it is louder than the previous notes make it a mockery of it being what it is intended to be. I wish players would be courageous and do what their ears tell them.
Thank goodness for that. I do this on the manuals on both occasions (loud and soft). Apart from not wanting to wait for 16' stops to speak, I find that the time it takes to move the hand down the keyboard makes for exactly the right amount of playfulness. I tried to persuade one of my organ scholars (who is now a Dr of Music) of this but he wouldn't have it.
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....Not that you are advertising or anything, David....
Heaven forfend.
It would be really nice if there were a CD available, perhaps called The Organ of Wimborne Minster, as an example of a 1960s Walker.
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Has anyone applied amplification to an organ?
In our church the organ is at the west end and fills the main part of the church quite effectively. However, by the time its sound reaches the choir, it is quite indistinct and lags slightly. Supporting the choir effectively can mean the organ has to be unnecessarily loud with the congregation in between. So I hit on the idea of putting a microphone near the pipes and bringing the sound up to the choir with some well-placed speakers. Of course, we'll need some expert help to do it properly (or not at all!) because we don't want to make the whole thing too loud or destroy the balance and sound of the instrument.
I wondered if anyone has experience of this sort of thing?
For large services I occasionally run a bog standard Maplin microphone into the main PA system. Our big Harrison is very remote from the nave (one regular contributor here has described it as having its own postcode) but overwhelming in the choir - the exact opposite of your situation. All you need is a little bit of sound there - loss of frequencies etc doesn't really matter. It's rather like using the nave organ at somewhere like Sherborne - all you need is the Stopped Diapason to provide enough 3D for the congregation to have confidence.
Why not recover a little redundant 1 manual and put it on a platform? Something with 4 or 5 stops needn't be very space consuming.
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My main delight was to hear that the CD of a Walker with the indifferent performance wasn't mine!*
(* = The Organ of Romsey Abbey, VIF Records 2007, available from Blackwells in Oxford, many cathedral bookstalls and www.davidcoram.co.uk)
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Apologies to those who think this self-promotion is too much to take. I am aware that Paul D and others refrain from anything of the kind. If I cause offence or have crossed the line, please say so and I will delete.
However - next week, I go back to Romsey Abbey with David Owen Norris, piano, and Richard Briers (of Good Life, Monarch of the Glen etc) to record Peter and the Wolf (organ), Babar the Elephant (Poulenc, played by Norris on the new Mason and Hamlin piano at the Turner Sims), and finally Carnival of the Animals arranged for piano and organ duet.
As you can imagine, this is quite a hefty one to finance, and hence I have managed to suppress my reticence sufficiently to see if anyone might like to join the lengthy queue to pre-order one at this location - Animal Songs
Thanks for reading and I really hope not to have broken any rules.
D
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Depends on the soundboard and the climate in the building in my book.
AJS
OK, respected maker, turn of the (19-20) century, building without central heating other than a few under-pew heaters, maintained at steady temp in Winter.
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Can't make my mind up. Left hand - they are a historic abomination and an excuse for poorly-engineered soundboards.
Right hand - they work.
Which wins?
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(everything)
Yes.
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Two points I would make:
The most recent work of Paul Fritts and Ralph Richards, both working in the North German Baroque style at an astronomically high standard, shows how the Schnitger/Mueller/Hintz idioms can be developed to reach into the romantic repertoire and elsewhere. Particular instruments worth considering are:
Interesting that you mention Paul Fritts. Through the good offices of DHM, I had the opportunity to play the following:
St Mark's Cathedral, Seattle - small organ (as well as the big one next door)
The first of these was ostensibly the oldest in style but still did everything. The second of these was by far the cleverest - I can't imagine a better instrument for the space. His work on the big Flentrop in the cathedral is spectacular. The last two represent the sort of things Peter Collins and others have tried to do, but Fritts gets the nail on the head in a way nobody else has - user friendly, varied, terrific.
In each case, I had some free time to mess about and choose concert repertoire, and did not feel the least bit limited by any of them. I then had to accompany an English choral evensong on minimal rehearsal on each, and again found absolutely no limitations, though DHM will probably say that there was too much adaptation of the notes in order to be able to get around the colours of the instrument.
Spirit of the Lord on a Cavialle-Coll? Can't imagine anything better. Reed ventils to each manual are exactly what you need for the big bit in the middle. The rest is easy to hand register so long as your violas, French horns and harps are on different manuals.
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... you are wrong.....you should stick to organs!
You certainly have a way with words.
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I'd wager that "Heckrlphone" doesn't realise the significance of his statement.
Which statement in particular? There have been several.
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(On Worcester Cathedral and the old Hill transept organ, versus the Hope-Jones monstrosity)
Form the 'distance' of well over a century, I am unable to comprehend how any sane musician could willingly dispose of the first instrument, in favour of the second.
Ah, but "living art MUST embrace the contemporary,and anything less is mere pretention at best, and third rate at worst." MM said so.
Turning a Hill into a Hope-Jones is just the sort of thing you get lumbered with from time to time when you discard the "mere pretension" of acknowledging what is behind you when seeking to move forward. I expect they all thought it would summon forth a very great deal of Musical Flexibility.
Anyway, "there are enough Hill organs around" - aren't there?
Tenor Clef?
in The Organ
Posted
One of the most useful things about my schooling was the insistence of the D of M that I should learn the viola. Far better a strange clef than all those silly ledger lines.