flûte harmonique
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Posts posted by flûte harmonique
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With this I should have to disagree strongly. Surely the instrument is far more important than any one person - however good they are. There are many instruments in this country* which have been altered (in some cases irretrievably). in order to satisfy the wishes of the serving musicians of that time.† What would happen if, in ten years' time, an extremely gifted organist who is currently receiving training at (for example) the Paris Conservatoire, is appointed titulaire at Nôtre-Dame - and wishes to 'rebuild' the instrument as a neo-Baroque organ, with entirely mechanical action? (As an integral part of his plans, this would of course necessitate the removal of much of the existing pipe-work.) Would this too be acceptable, on the grounds that the new titulaire has got what he wanted - and can now show off his talent in an even more spectacular manner?
Pierre Pincemaille, the present titulaire at the Basilica of S. Denis, is a phenomenally gifted player. His improvisations are at least as good as those of the musicians currently appointed to Nôtre-Dame. As it happens, he has chosen jealously to preserve the superb instrument at S. Denis. The incredibly unwieldy console, in its cramped situation has done nothing to stifle either his creativity or his sublime talent. One only has to listen to recordings of his improvisations - and repertoire - (or, for that matter, watch DVDs from the box set recently issued by Fugue State Films, detailing the history and evolution of instruments by Aristide Cavaillé-Coll) to realise that he is second to none in this respect.
How strange it is that he is able to create superb improvisations, which lack nothing in technical dexterity, construction or sheer musicality, on this uncouth, cumbersome instrument - yet, a few miles away, apparently it has been thought necessary to rebuild another instrument, arguably of equal historic and artistic importance, yet again, with another new console and a plethora of electronic devices.
* i.e.: England.
† In fact, I can think of one instance in the U.K. of an organist who, during his long tenure, had 'his' cathedral organ rebuilt twice; once, around 1971 and the second time in the mid 1990s - at which point, many of the earlier tonal alterations of the previous rebuild were reversed. Which also serves to illustrate how the personal tastes, historical perspective awareness and other related issues of a particular performer can change - in some cases, radically.
Actually, Pierre Pincemaille is , as you do say, very proud to be titular- organist (through a clear and transparent contest in 87) of the Saint-Denis ACC prototype. He is certainly the only one to be able to improvise in the modern French style on such an instrument (by the way he improvised in such a way on the cathedral Saint Etienne de Sens -organ typically French 18th, which was considered as an exploit by the auditors!). In the same time, he always says that he might better express his musical choices on a instrument equipped with a combinator and "tout le confort moderne". H's like a driver who is fond of his "traction avant Citroen" charms and in the same time exasperated by the lack of power of the engine and the weakness of the brakes!!
In any case thank you very much pncd 5584 to be so accurate and realistic in your opinion.
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Latry on the new console
Advert for his new cd
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I saw this photo on facebook. I deduct that Carbou is wrong when asserting PC'bench has been thrown away! But where is now Vierne's bench?
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I got a letter from François Carbou PC's assistant, confident and friend for 30 years.
Translation is mine:
In 1992, the great organ of Notre Dame de Paris, one of the most famous organ in the world was completely restored, consisting in the dismantling of the 8000 pipes taken outside Paris for a general cleaning (quite necessary) then a winding up and a new harmonization which, according some numerous experts ,has deeply affected the original Cavaillé-Coll feature. These works were completed with a new electronic transmission called Synaptel . The old Cochereau's console was considerably modified, since only the stops, the manuels, the pedall and the bench were kept.
This restoration has been costly ( the equivalent of today 2,2 M€) but over the following years, it was necessary to earmark again some money for the Synaptel failures !
Twenty years after from january 2012 until november 2012, it appears that the GO has to be restored again, financed by State budget since the organ is its property (Monument historique).
At this occasion Pierre Cochereau's console is destroyed and only the ivory stops and the pedall are reused, whereas it should have be « decent » to preserve this console in the same conditions than Vierne's was preserved. But this item full of marvellous souvenirs as well as the bench have been put in a dustbin.
The initiators of this infamy are so proud of themselves that nothing about tthe details of the works is explained in the layout displayed on NDP site, and that the new console photo has been displayed only by mid january 2013.
Last but not the least, it is planed a new campaign of restoration works en 2014 including again the dismantling of the organ !
All this costly circus is of course financed by the taxpayer, when time has occured to cut into the Culture ministry expenses which leads to the death of cultural entities unable to be supported by public funds.
That's it
François Carbou
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Recently published by the organbuider Quoirin the details on the arrangements made in 2012 with regards to the console as well as with the electronic parts of the organ.
Sorry, this is not translated...
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Thank you for this, flûte harmonique.
I was also surprised to read of the new computerised transmission; I had thought that they were going to return to a more conventional electro-pneumatic (or similar) action - without the complication or intervention of a computer.
I still wonder if it was necessary to replace the console. It is only just twenty years old. Ours is nearly fifty (as is a substantial part of the action, including the ladder switches for the electro-mechanical couplers), and still looks almost as good as new. That is, aside from some unnecessary damage to the Positive treble key cheek; this was caused an organ builder who had not realised that the key frames were secured by screws from the underside of the key bench. I was annoyed about this, because the key cheeks are Walker's finest, carved from rosewood.
In the UK you use to preserve old cars, old steam engines, you are also successful in protecting your countryside and your beautiful landscapes better than in France.
This kind of turnover is perhaps what we call "modernité" which in much cases is an other definition of "ugliness"!
An other view of the "wonderful" console:
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"Compared to the previous somewhat more dignified console, this just looks absurd. Why, oh why, did Latry, Lefébvre and Leguay think that it was necessary to replace the previous console with this monstrosity? In any case, with the advent of flat-screen TVs, I can see no need to attempt to make this console so squat"
There have been a public procurement including the new computerized transmission plus the console, plus the harmonization. The organ makers who made the bid were Quoirin and Cattiaux. Quoirin made the new console.
Of course the 3 co-titulars were aware of this major change and, given his previous responsibilities in the "Commission nationale des monuments historiques", I suspect Lefebvre exerted a strong influence....
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For what it's worth IMHO the new console isn't pretty and it seems that the layout of the stops and rocker tabs has been copied from the previous console with little thought given to redesign. I would have used the old C-C console as a starting point for the design of the new one reflecting the instrument's heritage, it's also much prettier. The brackets that support the music desk are plain ugly although hopefully when the music desk is fitted this will hide the stepped bits on top of the stop jambs.
The lack of music desk, or rther it's removability, (the brackets are obviously seen) would seem to reflect the improvised nature of much of its use during Masses. Sitting at the console with the music desk removed the player seems to have a good view down the nave of the church without having to resort to CCTV to know what's going on.
To illustrate what you say:
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Surely it too had something to do with his amazing ability as an interpreter and improviser!
As I am pointing out: not only, not only!!
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You are right: in so far as NDP organ is classified "monument historique", it has to respond to historical criteria defined by experts depending on the ministry of culture. Its evolvement is thus clearly framed As you know Lefebvre was (and perhaps still is) member of the historical organ experts commission when Cochereau died. This is the reason why he was appointed co-titular: his lobbying to help the organ to be restored with a sufficient amount of money was, in this way, strongly expected! There is so much to say about the organ and about those who played it or wanted to....
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It appears that further changes have been made - there is now a 'Resonnance' division - with chimes. What were they thinking?
As far as I can see, this new consoe is plain ugly compared to the prvoius two consoles. The black rocking tablets for the couplers (and several other aspects, e.g. piston heads and divisional name plates) make it look like some cheap electronic instrument.
Are they intending to have a music desk? In addition, what is that odd stepped part, at the top and back of the jamb panels?
I wonder what was 'wrong' with the previous console?
They have (Quoirin's people) used the former stops by reshaping their ivory, the former pedal has been kept. The rest is entirely new, including a new bench.
The Resonance division is made for the extension of the "petite pédale" to the manuals (56 notes) due to be effective in 2014.
The current changes have been made necessary by the various failures in the electronic part of the organ. I think that some happy few were aware of the new console setting up but not the majority of the NDP fans whom I belong to!!!!
Some sources say that the wooden part of the former console was not in such a good condition than previously expected.
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A small video with P.Lefebvre on the new console (at 1')
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http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=633475Capturede769cran20121213a768212635.png
At the occasion of the restoration of the electronic part of the organ, the console has been changed (Quoirin).
Many comments in France about this "esthetic".
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Haha! Not by me, m'sieur!
Absolutely. They would need a quick eye and a cool head to follow the score.
I have just looked at the score for the first time in years and see that it is not quite as evil as I remembered, though it is certainly bad enough. Nevertheless, there will definitely be more difficult pieces out there.
By the way: M'sieur: popular version of "Monsieur", especially used by the children. Sounds definitively unpleasant to my ears and my eyes...
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Hello everyone,
Appreciate this is a long shot but does anyone know how I can get hold of a score of this?? The Sanctus with its crazy toccata accompaniment in the grand orgue part is something to behold......
Thanks in advance,
Nick
You may contact him on his facebook account: http://www.facebook.com/yves.castagnet.1
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Unda Husbands is particularly funny. I would have preferred Unda Seas or Oceans!!
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My favourite version of the Opus 7 is this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pAsrLascUg
I'm very surprised that Mr Carpenter seems to have some difficulties to apprehend Dupré's music!!
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The organ in this protestant church looks interesting. I haven't yet had time to listen to the sound clips...
A rather big neo-classic organ (67 stops). The former titular was Marie-Louise Girod (born in 1915) who was a Dupré's disciple together with Demessieux and Jehan Alain.
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I would like to get in touch with the French composer/organist Jean Dominique Pasquet - if anyone can help please PM
Thanks
A
Pasquet is titular organist at the "Oratoire du Louvre" 145 rue Saint Honoré 75001 Paris
You may have a contact here: acceuil@oratoiredulouvre.fr
Tel: 33 142 602 164
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That's good news, want one.
Unfortunately, after listening to this CD I have just received, I must confess my strong disappointment!
What is the reason why these 2 symphonies of the same form recorded at a 3 weeks interval (1978) have been chosen?
There are still treasures on the shelves of Carbou: the problem is that the selection must be made by a real musician as Pincemaille did for the previous one!
See: http://www.solstice-music.com/en/album-ref...rre-THE-LITURGY
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Suffice to ask, MM:
(This is a Beuchet-Debierre organ. There are not only ACC organs in France).
If we absolutely needed to "rank" the merits of the organ-builders like the rating agencies
play to to with countries, let me only say this: I would not rank Cavaillé-Coll as the first
one for the 19th century. But as this presents an interest close to nihil, "don't ask, (I) don't tell "!
Pierre
Beuchet-Debierre, certainly but one has to keep in mind that he utilised the base of Cliquot restaured and revisited by Merklin.
ACC did the same as Merklin in St Sulpice!!
New console Notre Dame de Paris
in General discussion
Posted
Grünenwald was a very fine musician indeed. Not enough played in concert ....
As for Dupré, the problem is that we only know about the improvisations he made in the 50's for the early recordings. He was at that time 65 y old and already affected by arthrite.
A number of people, specially in the US in the 20's, witness that he was a great imaginative improvisor.
Discussing this topic with Pincemaille, he quotes Tournemire as the most gifted improvisor. He is not very fond of Dupré because of the constructive constraints he used to put on his impros.