innate
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Posts posted by innate
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4 hours ago, Paul Isom said:
A 32' Sub Bourdon was a common feature of organs by Percy Daniel. It usually went down to bottom G, with the ;last seven notes quinted. Examples included Wotton-under-Edge, Gloucestershire
..........................and of course St Katherine, Knockholt where the 32' is on the case front.
At the risk of derailing this great main topic, this has always struck me as a very small instrument to have a 32':
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I’ve been interested in hearing this instrument in the flesh http://www.willis-organs.com/florence_general.html but haven’t had the chance yet.
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How old was Walton when he composed his “Drop, Drop Slow Tears” Litany, about 16? That was done without a composition teacher but Walton had already been playing the Stravinsky Ballets in piano duet or two pianos with the Dean of Christ Church. And of course he’d been singing a lot of fine anglican choral music (and probably some not so good stuff) for six years day in, day out.
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I absolutely agree; I think the organ, played sensitively, can make a very positive contribution to a “mixed” consort of the type I often work with, eg trumpet, trombone, violin, cello, acoustic guitar, cajón.
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Don’t think of it as hard. Sure, it’s got a lot of fast notes which are supposed to be sempre staccato, but start well under speed. There are some particularly awkward patterns—I suggest you don’t settle on a definitive fingering for those straight away—get the music in your head first. Registration is awkward, don’t worry about that while your learning the notes. Some people swear by switching the hands over near the end when the LH is high up—that’s a matter of personal preference. A little as often as you can would be my recommendation. Start hands separately!
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That’s a lot of money! But I suppose a reconstruction, with all the research involved and not being able to use many of the standard procedures of the current builders, might be double the cost of a normal new instrument, and it does have a very large number of 16' stops (6 on the manuals and 5 on the pedal) and 3 32' stops on the pedal.
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I was being sarcastic. I am a serial offender too. My Music History tutor criticised me for my “butterfly brain” and nothing has changed in 40 years since.
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Where’s the discussion policeman when we need him! Blimey, I thought Usenet was bad in the old days.
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I was very interested in the thoughts behind deciding on a 1-manual instrument. There is indeed a huge repertoire that would be playable on this instrument, especially with the low G and A.
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“E major is much more attractive than F”—at the risk of opening a can of worms <sound effect> this is debatable. Bach’s Italian Concerto, most of Brandenburg Concerto No. 1, Beethoven’s Pastoral Symphony, his string quartet Op. 59 No.1 and his “Spring” sonata for piano and violin, much of Handel’s “Water Music” and Messiah, Brahms’s 3rd Symphony, Dvorak’s “American” string quartet, the second movement of Messiaen’s “L’Ascension”, and a host of other pieces would, I suggest, prove the opposite. There is nothing intrinsic about E or F, particularly in 12-tone equal temperament, which is what most organs are generally tuned to.
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I can’t link to the story, it’s behind a paywall, but there’s an article in today’s Times by Richard Morrison that says that because of a massive deficit St John’s, Smith Square is likely to close next year as a concert venue, 50 years after it opened.
I know the Klais organ is generally felt to be over-loud and too large for the space but it would be a double tragedy if such an instrument could not be found a new home.
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As long as the organ is close to 440Hz at 18ºC you should be ok for tuning. Competent trumpeters should be used to playing with organ.
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There are headphones by the console in Windsor. I’ve always been too scared to use them but it generally takes me at least one service there to play far enough ahead of what I can hear for the conductor to stop nagging!
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I agree with what’s already been said. If you want to stretch yourself try playing hymns as four part pieces. The basic way is soprano in the right hand, alto and tenor in the left, and bass in the pedals. Once you’re secure on that start mixing it up. Soprano in the pedal, bass and tenor in the LH, alto in the RH. Etc.
One common fault in organists is a weak sense of rhythm. Take any chance you can of playing in situations where it’s vital that you keep good time. Don’t just play the organ, play piano in theatre shows, play percussion in orchestras.
And sing. Even if you have no training as a singer sing in choirs, choral societies, barbershop quartets, Gilbert & Sullivan choruses.
Best of luck!
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On 09/03/2018 at 23:18, pcnd5584 said:
I do know of colleagues who eschew a 4ft. Clarion. However, I find ours (we have three) invaluable, particularly that on the Swell Organ. This stop alone contributes greatly to the Full Swell, and is invaluable in French Symphonic music.
I must confess that I’m very keen on a 4' Clarion (or Clairon). Not so keen on Clarion Tubas. There seems to be a bit of a trend at the moment for no manual 4' reeds on even quite sizeable 3 manual instruments, eg the one in St George’s Hanover Square. http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=E02004
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I’m no expert but I was under the impression that most treatises on continuo realisation on keyboard instruments generally indicate that the left hand plays the bass and the right hand “fills in” the harmony. If the right hand is busy playing a cornet or corno or flute obbligato then any harmony notes can only be added by the left hand, which would seem to me to mean that it is not going to be continuous added notes but merely, as Vox Humana says above, occasional left-hand octaves and left-hand chords.
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3 hours ago, John Furse said:
I'm more than mildly astounded: 89 stops and ONE separate (Choir) tierce in the whole instrument (?),
How has the Cornet Voluntary offended ? And, large swathes of the continental repertoire are 'inaccessible', with only inaccurate rendering possible.
I'm sure it will sound grand . . . but, somehow, incomplete.
I’m in sympathy with your concerns. Three tierces, separate or in Cornets, would be useful, if only for that movement in Les Corps Glorieux.
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1 hour ago, ajsphead said:
I think I have encoutered this and to English ears it doesn't sound very natural and is rather too fast to produce the type of effect we are used to. Again though, it depends on the tone of the string rank and the effect desired.
Maybe there are other “pure” intervals that could be used to similar effect.
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1 hour ago, sprondel said:
In German organbuilding, there is the term “Terzschwebung”,
This sounds like a beautifully “pure” and musical approach! Thanks for your explanation, Friedrich—I suspect many will have been enlightened by it.
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51 minutes ago, David Drinkell said:
On the subject of celestes, I (nearly) always find that a sharp celeste is a much nicer sound than a flat one.
If the two ranks are of identical design, construction, winding and voicing how can there be any difference if no other stops are being used to give a sense of the pitch of the instrument?
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14 hours ago, Lausanne said:
Did Laurie mean to refer to Olivier Latry, or is there another organist we have never heard of whose name is not helping his career?
I’m hoping it was an unintentional auto-correct.
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I don’t know this instrument but npor http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N16925 indicates many “prepared for” stops.
Two questions, well three really:
Is npor accurate and up-to-date?
What’s the instrument like, for services and as a recital instrument?
“Prepared for” stops—in general how often are they eventually provided and how often do they remain as a, ahem, perpetual pipe dream?
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5 hours ago, S_L said:
Orford Church in Suffolk?
It was a building I always wanted to visit and was totally amazed by it when I, eventually, did visit there. Totally magnificent - but so small! Where did Britten put the large children's orchestra (complete with slung mugs, wind machine, bugles and handbells etc.) for the first performance of Noyes Fludde in 1958? - and how many 'animals' did he manage to get into the ark on that occasion? - and then there are gossips, eight principal singers, the unseen God, a string quintet and piano duet. (I've conducted performances of Noyes Fludde, now, six times - the smallest performance employed an orchestra of about 50 with 60 animals - the largest had an orchestra of 150 and 360 animals!)
I've always thought that Britten was a consummate craftsman. I'd even go so far to say that there isn't any bad Britten! - and I've always thought that the, very quiet, double pedalling at the beginning of the 'storm' in Noyes Fludde is inspired - you don't hear it below the Passacaglia subject - but you feel it! How did Ralph Downes, who played the first performance, cope with the little two manual Lewis - with it's solitary 16' Bourdon!
Sorry to distract the thread - it's the the mention of Orford and it's associations with a work that can, and has, induced nightmares into the bravest conductor!
Bad Britten? Psalm 150!
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28 minutes ago, Dafydd y Garreg Wen said:
But compare S. George's Hall, Liverpool, for a less extreme instance at the same period:
http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=R01924
I think the underlying (erroneous) idea was that you got more volume by duplicating ranks. The problem in York which they were trying to address was how to fill such a vast space with sound. Weren't some of the duplicated ranks east-facing and others west-facing?
Doubling ranks was an English organ-building tradition in the 16th-17th centuries I think. And Renatus Harris had that idea (was it actually built) of 7 identical stops being added gradually by a pedal to effect a crescendo.
But, yes, these multiple doubled ranks at York and Liverpool must have been problematic to tune and of limited success in the presumed intention of increasing volume.
New Bach Edition from Breitkopf
in The Organ
Posted
I have several volumes of the NBA that are brown—both paper cover and hardback. Slightly annoyed when they changed to blue! Although the blue is harder-wearing.