sjf1967
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Posts posted by sjf1967
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Oliver - try this. It might be what you want.Thanks, I was under the impression that it was played from the main console but over the years the stops for the division were removed from the console during various rebuilds etc. Also, the thought is that the pipes are still there, (maybe in a swell box?) just not connected in any way.Regards,
Oliver Horn
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Hello there,
I am a complete novice when it comes to organ playing so please bear with me.
I am a music student & I usually write my compositions for piano, woodwind or strings, but I have written one piece for organ and SATB choir.
I need some advice on how to use notation for organ, specifically which stops to use.
The composition is a fairly straightforward & very tonal in comparison to most of my work. It is a setting of a poem in 4 verses which starts off very quietly and builds through the piece.
Anyone out there prepared to give me a few pointers?
I can, if necessary, send you a MS Word version of the organ score so you can help me further.
Yours hopefully.
Chris
Chris - stick a copy in the post to me at Guildford (you can get the office address off the website) and I'll have try to have a look - but can't promise it would be immediate.
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Always at your service, MM. That's what I am here for
sjf1967: Nielsen, I believe, was a Dane. I too am fond of that piece of ultra-Buxtehude. A while ago, I kept looking for a recording of Commotio on a romantic organ; to no avail. My favourites among the recordings on modern instruments are Kevin Bowyer's (Odense cathedral, Marcussen) and Christopher Herrick's (Turku cathedral -- very bright though the organ may sound, the playing is just superb).
Best,
Friedrich
sprondel - you're quite right of course, Nielsen's Danish. Was associating the piece in my mind with Sibelius, which is no excuse - thank you.
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That's what I like to see.....a bit of German substance and depth.
MM
Nielsen and Martin will provide you with plenty of those, MM (even though one's Finnish and the other Swiss )...they really are great works. If we we're allowed ten I'd certainly go with Durufle Veni Creator - fantastic stuff. Will go away and have a little think about the other five I'm allowed...the Elgar is wonderful to listen to but I'm not sure I like playing it much. Reubke's a strong contender too.
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All things considered....style, harmony, counterpoint and effectiveness, which is the greatest non-Bach organ-work ever written.
This surely isn't a difficult question...is it?
MM
Dead heat - Martin Passecaille; Nielsen Commotio; Alain Trois Danses; Messiaen Messe de la Pentecote. For my money, anyway....
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'Drop kick me Jesus through the goal posts of life' is my favourite. It's a real one...I have not heard the one you mention, Barry.However, I suspect that it can get sillier - if not actually worse.
I have seen, in a 'songbook':
"Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,
Words © 1987."
(Or some similar date.)
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Hi
Definitely fact - can you really believe that intelligent men and women would be prepared to be martyred for a myth? Is it really believable that an experienced Roamn execution squad would make such a basic mistake? Even just reading the New Testament carefully indicates the truth of the resurrection - Jospehus (Jewish historian) mentions it.
Every Blessing
Tony
Tony - very interesting area this. Two observations: Josephus may not be as reliable as we like to think; and not one single historical document outside the Bible records the 'historical fact' of a literal bodily resurrection. It can hardly have been an everyday event after all - but no source mentions it, even by implication. As for the New Testament - Mark, the oldest gospel , doesn't record the resurrection at all... In saying all this I don't intend to question anyone's faith or belief, let me be clear on that - they are just questions!
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The second stop is indeed the Orchestral Trumpet, and right at the end, I think you hear both the Tuba and Orchestral Trumpet together, but sensibly, Peter avoided using the 16ft Tuba on the pedals, which would have destroyed the organ, tha hall and much of the surrounding area !!
It's about the only recording I know of where one actually hears a 32ft Diaphone, but I think Simon Preston used it on his recording there also.
Now THERE'S an organ which would blow "The Black Dyke Band" into the river!
That Orchestral Trumpet has always interested me, because it, or something obviously quite like it, was always on the organ long before Compton set foot in the place. Some will recall that Alfred Hollins wrote the "Trumpet Minuet" and specified an "Orchestral Trumpet" in the registration. As there weren't too many about, one assumes that it refers to Hull.
So who, I wonder, supplied that reed?
Incidentally, John Cook's Fanfare is dedicated to Robert Munns, and apart from Halifax PC, Hull City Hall was the only other place where I met met him. I think he, Peter Goodman and myself ate lunch at the back of the hall.
I discovered that the original signed manuscript copy of the Cook Fanfare was stolen from Robert's car in Skipton, North Yorkshire, and he never got it back.
MM
MM - If the Cook is dedicated to Robert Munns (who was my first organ teacher) - who is the C.E. whose initials appear at the top of the score - 'for C.E.'? There's no mention of Robert that I can see. Not questioning the veracity of your account - just curious!
S
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Some years ago, I picked up an EMI CD called "Composers in Person", which includes Widor, at a truly venerable age, playing the Toccata from the 5th Symphonie and three movements of the Gothique, and Vierne playing two improvisations and the Andantino from the Pièces de Fantasie. Widor recorded in 1932, and Vierne in 1928.
Tournemire recorded five improvisations in 1930, and these were transcribed by Maurice Duruflé around 1958. I've only ever heard recordings of others playing Duruflé's transcriptions, and never Tournemire himself.
Does anyone know if Tournemire's original recordings still exist and, if so, whether they can be purchased on CD? I've never even heard of them being on CD ...
Rgds,
MJF
If you've not heard the originals before you're in for surprise - some fairly extended passages are quite different from D's transcription - he tidied things up quite a lot.
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I see the Abbey will be without the Harrison for 6 months as the Console is being brought up to date with the latest technology. What I want to know is what would you do with 512 memory capacity which is what they are adding to the generals with a stepper ?
I guess you use it to store settings for particularly involved and complex accompaniments, so you're not always resetting the pistons...and recitalists can have a bit more memory too. Surprising how fast it fills up with 3 organists and an organ scholar!
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I seem to remember hearing that Alleluyas was written at short notice, because the publishers had been let down by a French composer who failed to submit. I wonder who that could have been.....?
H
I'm off to hunt for some gems in The Village Organist
There's a piece by a well known French 20th c composer in the companion volume of Modern Organ music Vol 1. Has anyone ever played it? I'd be interested to know what you thought if you had....
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Made tea and fish-cakes in the organ (useful power point) during the Good Friday vigil. Very good too.
At Winchester one of us used to pop out of the loft and go over the mini Sainsbury's on Sunday morning for a bag of doughnuts to eat during the sermon. Very nice they were too, but the keys got a bit sticky.
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My favourites are:
Mahler - Symphony no. 8
Awesome symphony especially with the organ held chord at the end and the Brass in the gallery or where-ever going for it.
Scriabin - Le Poème de l'extase
I like the way the chords build up towards the end, becoming more orgasmic
Resphigi - Pines of Rome (esp. Pines of the Appian Way)
I love this movement, so stirring. (OK i know this peice was considered fascistic)
Holst - The Planets Suite (Mars, bringer of war)
Played the organ part at the RAH a few years back. Loved that 'crunchy chord' with a lot of the stops out.
OK. What are your favourites, what pieces have you played in, anecdotes etc.
Not sure if it counts as an anecdote - but when Mahler 8 was done here a little while ago I played the organ part. The basses in the VAST choral society had been told to stand in a very precise configuration on the staging so I had the tiniest of sightlines to the conductor (we don't have a CCTV here) - and of course they all forgot. So I had to do the whole thing (including the arrival of the opening chord) by guesswork - I couldn't see a thing except serried ranks of dinner jackets towering above me, and had to listen to the contrabassoon drawing breath with the first upbeat to know when to start playing. I didn't enjoy it much as a consequence (too worried) but it's a great piece.
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Langlais - Vingt-Quatre Pieces pour Orgue ou Harmonium (2 Vols) - Editions Combre (24 Boulevarde Poissonniere, 75009, Paris) - I got them via Allegro Music. There is also a set by Andre Fleury which are good too - I try all these sorts of things for a bit of variety on my little one manual Vowles. Too much C H Trevor can go a long way!
AJJ
There's a similar volume called Expressions - published by FitzSimons - half of the pieces are Hakim and half are Langlais. A bit more involved than the 24 pieces though.
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Is it this:
http://www.pilarcabrera.com/mp3/pilar/langlais1.mp3
I think it was the one. Yes, I rather like it!
I think I'll have to learn to play it to see whether it's better than Mendelssohn. Wish me (lots of) luck!! :angry:
Many thanks to you for helping me find this piece of music again!
That's certainly the Chant Heroique - glad you've tracked it down again! It's a good piece I think.
S
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Gosh, with Mendelssohn, Dupre, Langlais etc. dropping like flies, I'm beginning to wonder what people actually LIKE? (And I'm choosing to ignore some curious remarks made elsewhere on this board about JSB.)
I'm sure though, that there's often quite a difference between music which is satisfying to perform, and that which is satisfying to listen to, particularly to the non-player. And in the same way that the first recording/performance heard of a piece makes an indelible impression, so do pieces which we learn at particular times, and critical faculties desert us (me).
On the subject of likes - Alain. I think he's more intriguing and innovative than Messiaen, much as I love the latter. Who knows where A's rhythmic experiments (viz Trois Danses) might have taken him?
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I've heard a few of the smaller pieces (can't remember which ones) and I've generally like it. There was one piece I heard that I really liked - I asked the organist what it was and I've now forgotton. It was quite low and dark in texture, with a lot of repeated chords and a lot of brooding energy. It was electric!
So I keep an open mind about Langlais, Te Deum aside...
Chant Heroique (9 Pieces)?
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Oh - sorry, I cannot get on with these, either. My apologies, Stephen; particularly since I believe that you recorded them!
Then there is Easthorpe Martin's Evensong. Now this may have been tongue-in-cheek, although I do not think so, but I find it absolutely execrable.
You're quite right pncd - I did record them. Still available from all good record shops of course :angry:
Evensong - lovely stuff. Do you know the Dubois Marche des Rois Mages? - you stick a pencil or similar on top b with a flute 4 and then off you go. Garbage of the most exalted variety, and all done in the utmost seriousness, which makes it funnier. I play it very couple of years to cheer myself up after Christmas.
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Young Marcel D. has taken a few yellow cards in this thread, hasn't he? I was going to say that I quite like his works, but when I thought about it, I realised that I like his early works, and some from his middle years - nothing really after the A flat Prelude and Fugue (which I love).
Even then, there are some works in his "good" period I just can't get into, and one that leaves me absolutely cold - the Carillon. I haven't yet come across anyone who can, for my taste, render it even remotely listenable. I gave up trying to make anything of it years and years ago.
Which gets me to what I was going to mention: that some of the French composers seem to have written far too much. As if they were under a compulsion to publish. (Or to accept commissions?) The good gent I just mentioned was surely one. Joseph Bonnet was another one who produced a few gems, but quite a number of duds. And Jean Langlais. No gems for me in his oeuvre, just duds. (Oh dear, haven't I given enough offence by now?)
But no, a parting shot. Not another Frenchman, but now as English a chap as ever drew breath. I came across a while ago some old pieces by William Faulkes, and to say I found them a waste of the publisher's art scarcely hints at it. And I gather he wrote lots ... and lots ... all in much the same soppy vein. Well, I suspect he wrote something worth the effort. But how does one find it in a pharmacy full of musical sleeping pills?
Rgds
MJF
The Langlais 5 Meditations sur L'Apocalypse are good stuff I think; and L'Annonciation, from the same set as the much more often played La Nativite, is also very fine. Did he accept too many US commissions, maybe?
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Interesting - I was told the story by a previous Assistant at the Abbey. To be honest, I have less trouble believing that it was JP-S, too!
I had it on the sworn authority of a former no 3 of SP's at the Abbey that it was Catherine Ennis!
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Anything by Mendelssohn leaves me feeling short-changed, apart from the C minor Prelude and Fugue which seems to be far better than any of the other organ works.
As a fan of Louis Vierne, I have to admit that Symphonie No.5 seems to ramble along aimlessly to my ears. Especially the 4th movement.
Sorry.........
Thanks for the reminder Graham - I'm with you on Mendelssohn too. I find it terribly sanctimonious.
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Apart from the B minor and G minor Preludes and Fugues, Dupré leaves me stone cold, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the bottom of my heap.
Now the Ives variations: yes, certainly. But if that's the organ equivalent of eating a Macdonald's, surely Lefébure-Wely is the equivalent of what heaves onto the pavement an hour or so later. Whenever I hear anyone playing him I get the feeling that the lot has fallen unto me in a fairground.
My antipathy stems from being compelled to learn the Dupre Variations in a fortnight when I was an Organ Scholar - no choice. Never got over it!
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I would have to agree that nothing comes to mind that is quite as bad as the IVES Variations. Foul. Absolutely FOUL.
I'm with you there. Controversial, but one of my great allergies is Dupre - the early Preludes and Fugues are good, Choral and Fugue, Second Symphony and Tombeau de Titelouze - but things like Evocation and the Symphonie Passion (that Nativite movement especially), the Op 36 Ps and Fs and just about all the rest seem to me an utter waste of time. I am probably alone in this...
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I've seen reference to a UMP edition. Maybe that's it? Unfortunately I can't check as their website doesn't seem to have a complete listing of their organ music (or if it has it's very well hidden).
Vox - UMP are the UK agents for a variety of French publishers. one of whom is Durand - the only way of getting the older ending of the Toccata is finding someone who bought their copy before the revisions were published it's no longer in print. S
Js Bach's Greatest Organ Work?
in The Organ
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