sjf1967
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Posts posted by sjf1967
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Glad you all like it - some revisions are on the way imminently and I note the desire for more photos. One of the photos is indeed from St Paul's - London premiere of the Symphony DB wrote for me in 2004.Don't want to sound catty, but my theory is that some of the players who manage without page turners play (shall we say) a 'select' and 'closely defined' repertoire resulting in the fact that their one miniature paste-up or carefully memorised programme will serve a goodly number of venues.I agree that the console looks like St.Paul's (in all but one of the photos given). Equally puzzling is the question why David Briggs should be placed centre stage and SF relegated to background. And yes, I did notice that SF has recently recorded a large chunk of DB.
I think SF needs more photos - nice site, I agree.
And yes thanks, I did get the help I needed on Saturday - many thanks to Robert Bowles of this site who did a super job. The St John's organ is really worth going to hear. By the way - there's no way I could have cut the scores out and pasted them on cardboard....
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http://www.chosenvalemusic.org/location.html - scroll down a bit for photo and spec. This is a really beautiful organ in a tiny chapel in the middle of rural New Hampshire - I thoroughly enjoyed it and it was very versatile for 26 stops.... especially lovely 8' fluesAn excellent choice heva! I could certainly live happily with that one. -
I'm in need of a page turner - tomorrow night, St John's Duncan Terrace, 7.30pm. Can anyone help? Replies off board gratefully received. Thanks in advance S
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You're right, parsfan. It's incredibly hard to get children of chorister age now to read and even vaguely understand the English of the BCP psalter - most adults in 2006 would find it a challenge too, I'd wager...I think it's pragmatism rather than anything more sinister that lies behind this change of procedure for most places. It's a completely alien language to modern kids, and just getting 30+ verses learnt in textual terms can take more time than most of us have at our disposal....never mind trying to craft the singing in musical terms. I'd have to put Geoff Morgan at the top of my own list of psalm players....those who heard his plainsong 15th evening were never the same again!Yes, chanting in a parish church can be a dispiriting experience. Even more distressing when you come across it in a cathedral. At Winchester one of the canticles at matins is usually chanted.JSW at York Minster is, in my opinion, unsurpassed in the art of chant accompanient. Mind you, after 30 years I am sure that he knows the chants off by heart. York is one of the dwindling number of foundations that now follow the BCP Psalter and sing the allocation for each evening. Even St Paul's has given up the ghost.
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No problem Vox - we are always very happy to help in this way when we can. I hope he gets something sorted, and best of luck to him! Best SStephen: thanks very much for your helpful reply and your generous offer. That's very kind indeed. I'll certainly mention it to the young lad when I see him, though since Guildford will be a fair old hike for him I guess he'll prefer to try the three or four nearer cathedrals first. -
Vox - depends where he wants to go. As you would imagine, John's King's Christ Church etc demand lots of previous; but I too come from a Free Church background and had barely learned how to read pointing when I went up to Clare, although I had done a fair bit of playing in a church with an SATB choir that sang anthems and settings to a high standard. Not having much experience with psalmody made life difficult, I have to say, but I survivied. The overall state of play regarding able applicants for Oxbridge sholarships is that there aren't enough, certainly in the smaller colleges. He should go for it, and do as much as possible to fill in the gaps in the meantime. Lots of applicants fall into the trap if thinking that being able to play Transports de Joie will put them at an advantage, but actually a sound grasp of the more mundane musical skills will be much more useful. Lots of cathedral organists I know will be willing to offer practical encouragement - a chance to sit in the loft etc - to someone in this position; i certainly am, so if he's not too far away put him in touch. Best SGetting back to the original subject, I know a young lad, grade 8 standard, who would like an organ scholarship at university - Oxbridge preferably. As far as I know he's never played an Anglican chant in his life (his background is free church). Forty years ago I doubt he would have stood an earthly at Oxbridge, but how about today? How essential is experience with the Anglican liturgy? Does anyone know the current situation? -
Really? I tough it was available for free (save the huge costs to be expected for moving and restoring it of course).
And again, I am not for adding Tierces and the like in a romantic organ. I already linked
to a text I placed on my forum about Mixtures in romantic-based organs.
(By the way, I received *some* support after having posted it from people
less fancifull than myself)
I also explained I do not design hotch-potches, but contemporary synthesis organs (that is, made from elements of compatible periods), a long belgian tradition since absolutely all organs built here from the Renaissance up to 1930 are precisely that.
So, while fully supporting the Leiden project, I could have written it differently -The main difference would be this one: I would have chosen the builder first, and then have layed the spec down with him-.
Further, do we need to see the styles as closed boxes? To build an english-inspired organ in Europe isn't the same thing as to reconstitute an historic organ in Britain,
for which accuracy would be the first goal indeed.
Pierre
But that seems to me to be precisely the point, Pierre - the whole project is based on the notion that this is NOT just another a synthesis organ, or a vaguely English 'inspired' one, but one that reproduces the stylistic and tonal ideals of Harrison/Willis 1880-1920, whatever that means. It looks to me something like a standard issue 3 manual Willis (Gt Hohlflute and Sw 4' flute look a bit odd though, and the Gt 4' flute should be Harmonic, surely?), with an Arthur Harrison mixture grafted on, and a Solo which mops up whatever is left - a bit like King's Cambridge, but stranger. The Pedal organ is also a bit unexpected. It's hard to see why they would have enlisted two English cathedral organists as patrons if this was just another stab at an all purpose eclectic Euro-organ. I'm sure it will sound very beautiful, and three cheers for Leiden for doing it at all, but it is not at all what it pretends to want to be, and as it reads looks like a missed opportunity. If you want an English 'cathedral' organ, why not replicate Truro, or the Willis Chancel Organ at St Pauls?
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"How can a single Tierce rank sound like a 3rank Dulciana Mixture? And WHICH Dulciana Mixture? (Harrison? Hill? Norman and Beard? ...)."
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Well, I shall try to explain moire clearly.
I mean:
Would you take out a 17th rank from a Dulciana Mixture, I mean of course a DM which contains one, because there are which does not (and yes I encountered, listened to and took the scales from both), you could use it as a Tierce in a 1948 Gonzalez organ, nobody would hear the difference.
This does not mean it would sound like a complete DM.
But this DOES mean there is an organic relationship, common points to be find in all these soft mutation stops, be them a post-romantic french tierce, a british DM, or a german Harmonia aetherea.
There are one of my silly fancies -I do have even more fancies- like absolutely all the "soft stops" that are badly lacking in modern organs.
(No, I won't pile more bits today
)Pierre
Pierre - I have to ask - why build an English 'cathedral' instrument when it is not going to be used for its fundamental purpose - accompaniment? The need for accompanimental colour (psalms!) is the driving force behind many of the sonorities on these organs. That Solo organ is like no traditional cathedral solo I've ever seen in the UK - what is its function?
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I think it would be possible to spend a lifetime attempting to work this organ out.
With the best part of 800 stop-tabs, this is one "classical" instrument which dwarfs the largest cinema-organ consoles.
I cringe to think how long it would take to become familiar with the console, but it should be noted that the Great Organ alone has three sets of stop-keys (actually rocking tablets I believe) controlling three Great Organs.
Is this the only organ in the world where a Trumpet can become a Cornet?
The idea of big trumpets at 8, 4,2.2/3, 2, and 1.3/5 is certainly....erm...American.
Our friend "Vox Humana" will be delighted to note that the Pedal contains a fully fledged "Acoustic 32ft reed"....oh....and an acoustic 64ft as well.
Only in America could such a beast be created, and only an American could it be considered a work of art.
Still, it is fun.
MM
Good Lord. Did Mr Bournias advise? I rather like the way that the English mutations peter out at the 29th - we're clearly no match for the French in that department. The idea of a 16' Soprano Vox and a 2' Baritone seems a bit oxymoronic.
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A good response Lee, and I think this is why I emphasised the sense of "challenge" which such a move might entail. To be absolutely honest, I'm not quite sure what the FRCO diploma is all about, unless it's really about organists being extremely isolated and impossibly academic. The performance side of things is matched by other organisations and institutions.
I can't help but think that the "academic" approach of score-reading, C-clefs and writing an "instant fugue" is being awkward for the sake of it, and merely creating an academic hurdle which has only limited practical value.
Wouldn't it be far better to concentrate on the nuances of interpretation or informed historic performance practise?
As for outreach, I really cannot think of anything better than real live performances of organ-music presented in a major music college such as the RNCM, LCM or RAM. Put it another way, even Manchester knew the name of Petr Eben long before most organists did, and there is (I believe) a bust of the man at the RNCM, where he was honorary composer (or somesuch) for some time.
I suppose the question which needs to be asked, is whether the RCO is primarily an academic institution or a performing institution; which is not to say that organists cannot be both, as many Oxbridge organ-scholars have demonstrated so powerfully.
The niggling doubt I have, is whether the RCO could ever really foster the talents of people such as Jane Parker Smith, or the wild virtuosity of a Wayne Marshall, with all his other skills as an improviser and jazz musician.
Perhaps it is just a little bit "sad" that the RCO have to make the most outstanding performers "Honorary Fellows" in what, to me at least, looks awfully like a face-saving exercise when non-fellows show the FRCO graduates just how it should be done.
To my certain knwoledge, no-one has ever yet devised a test for genius, and that applies just as much to organ-playing and academia as it does to mathematics.
I shall refrain from slurring the memory of a great musician who hapened to be a magnificent choral-trainer, by naming names, but there WAS a certain cathedral organist I knew, who could barely stagger through the first three variations on "Mein Junges Leben" by Sweelinck; yet he was hideously well qualified and held the FRCO diploma.
At least, if the RCO was associated with a major music college, then it would be taking the first important steps towards reaching out to a largely secular world of music; with wonderful opportunities available to INCLUDE the organ rather than EXCLUDE it in national music-making.
Incidentally Lee, the RAC club has nothing to so with the great motoring public. It is a very exclusive and very expensive club, to which one becomes an invited member. The President is, or at least was, HRH Prince Michael of Kent, and the drinks don't come cheap!!
The Atheneum Club is just as exclusive, but has a better wine-cellar!
MM
Well, this is what Schumann thought about some of these questions - http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1368793
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Thanks for that MM. I should be practising the Alain Trois Danses actually, but for what it's worth and while I finish my coffee -====================I would absolutely agree with what John Sayer says (that's almost poetic isn't it?)
Perhaps the main reason I go to Holland to recitals (which costs a fair bit of hard earned cash) is to hear MUSIC, which on the consoles they have, seldom enters the stratospheric reaches of virtuosity. Limited as they are by what is actually possible, I find that the musicianship is of a very high order; especially in period music played on period instruments.
As for "Phil T's" reply, I think I may disagree with him. I do actually think that many are among the finest of musicians, but their chosen path is that of church music, which is quite a different undertaking.
"Parsfan" also makes the point about reciprocal bookings, which is a better choice of words than the "nepotism" I used. Perhaps the best reasoning is that of simple expediency, but whatever the actual method, the whole thing can end up being exclusive and sometimes almost incestuous.
As for encouraging organists as musicians, perhaps Holland and Germany have the right approach. Of course, here in the UK, the chances of having paid professional artists, paid by national arts funding, would be unthinkable. They'd rather spend the money on all the public service "initiatives" which never work and which cost a fortune.
MM
1. I think the concert/cathedral organist distinction is a totally meaningless one - there are good players and less good players. Concert players haven't always given the finest concerts in London in recent years; some have been pretty lacklustre. I am not going to name names. I'd say the honours were pretty equally divided. (I only use London as an example because that's where I've heard most of them).
2. Reciprocal bookings - yes, it does work like that here to some extent, but it's pretty challenging to get onto fine instruments abroad, because exactly the same thing happens there - look through the lists of recitalists at well known Dutch venues; a is clearly inviting b, who will return the favour or is a former pupil. Not many foreign names to be seen. I know of many fine players in the UK whose attempts to get a foot hold overseas are either ignored or rebuffed with something approaching brusqueness - if anything I would say that it's easier for mainland Europeans to get in to play in the UK than vice versa. A little while back I was approached by a reasonably well known overseas player, asking for a concert. Keen to open things up a bit, we agreed a huge fee by our standards - remember that the home team in many places has to play without a fee to keep their series afloat at all, so we were subsidising his visit - and I also assisted in providing contacts for a a very nice UK tour. Promises of similar assistance, strangely, have failed to materialise, and communications from me are now going unanswered. S/he's done pretty well out of us I think, but we're not likely to repeat the experience in a hurry. We have also, incidentally, had a big name soloist here, who played very fast and very loud with lots of wrong notes.
3. Cathedral organists in general understand that fees in the UK are going to be minimal, know the problems and can live with it; players from abroad who approach us start from a position of wanting 3 nights in a hotel and a £600 minimum fee. Dream on - we simply can't afford it. I have more than once agreed to take a lower fee than originally negotiated because the budget in June wouldn't stretch to the sum agreed in December.
Rant over.
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Well, up to a point - but maybe there wasn't time. Cathedrals are pretty busy places, and if there was that much wrong with it there's nothing much a quick check through will achieve. And if you start tuning one organ, however prestigious, for nothing....I think personally if the organ were in my care, and I wished to keep hold of it, I would have been anxious to make it sound good and tune it free of charge anyway for an important occasion for an international recitalist. I afraid I didn't think it was a very good advert. -
Following on from discussion about the Canterbury organ.
I attended the recital this evening by D'arcy Trinkwon and I thought the playing was energetic and exciting. I thoroughy enjoyed the evening, and wasn't the slightest bit bored.
The organ at Canterbury is obviously magnificent and very grand and fiery. From the choir of course, or should that be quire?
The 1978 Mander rebuild obviously kept the dominant voices and gives a good account of itself still.
I was very surprised about how out of tune the organ was this evening, the top ends of the compass were quite horrible with many stops drawn and one C on the Great Posaune or something, was way off, as was what I think was a D sharp on the Cromona. I completely accept that it was a very warm day and we all know what this entails.
I played this organ not so long ago and the story was exactly the same, it was a cooler day earlier this year and the thing was still horribly out of tune.
I thought it was usually normal for the builders to be in tuning an important instrument prior to a rectial nearly right up to the time of the doors opening? I cannot think this happened this evening. I felt for the internationally acclaimed recitalist, and at certain points, (on the rather entertaining random video screen), you could see the look of pain upon his face.
We all know it's a long time since the organ has been overhauled, but one would hope it's not political to keep it as out of tune as possible.
I'm a little puzzled as to why the tuner seems to visit RAH pre-recital and have someone on hand in case faults develop there. Is not Canterbury at least equally deserving of such treatment? Certainly I at least, didn't see the presence of any organ builder there.
Money, in a word.
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The fact that Oxbridge colleges may need to read from three C-clefs hardly makes this a common occurrence up and down the land. The tests should surely be more relevant to the sort of problems likely to be encountered by a proficient organist in the course of his/her duties. How about the following?
1. Dealing with rambling sermons. A copy of the Daily Telegraph crossword will be shown to the candidate 15 minutes before the practical exam begins. The copy may not be marked in any way, and the use of a thesaurus will not be allowed. Candidates will be expected to complete as much of the crossword as possible during the practical session, preferably between the playing of the pieces and the keyboard skills tests.
2. Dealing with noisy congregations. Candidates will be expected to play a voluntary which has taken many weeks to prepare. During the playing, the examiners will move to within 10ft of the candidate and start braying loudly about nothing in particular. The candidate will then be expected to finish playing the voluntary, or at least end it at an appropriate point with some sort of cadential progression. Audible swearing by the candidate may well lead to disqualification.
Any other suggestions?
Nice idea, Graham - both tests are essential. On the more serious point, I'm with innate and Alsa on this one, as I can honestly say I have used every one of the tests on a regular basis in professional life, even the score reading in C clefs (not only at Christ Church, by the way) - knowing the soprano clef fluently makes score reading Clarinets in A a lot easier too.
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UMP I guess, but it's all gone quiet - I was hoping they might be out last year.Its a transcription of/the basis of the Agnus Dei from the Messe Cum Jubilo apparently done in 1964. Its published by Durand (2001) and a very lovely piece.Thank you, Richard, for the scan of Chant Donne and also to Stephen for the info on publication the Pelleas transcription - do we know which publisher? I know of two organ transcriptions of the Trois Danses (Whitehead and Farrington) any hope of publication? (Durufle himself transcribed them for solo and duo piano).
Lastly I gather some more Demessieux has found the light - a piece entitled nativite delatour demessiuex - anyone heard it/seen it?
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There is an arrangement of Faure's Prelude to Pelleas to be published imminently - Frederic Blanc has played it a few times. And I think there's also an unpublished (very early) organ fugue.It's fairly difficult to get hold of. It was first published in a volume of pieces dedicated to Gallon, published in 1953 or so, but as far as I know hasn't been reissued by itself.My copy came courtesy of an organist who'd recorded it - I e-mailed him asking if he knew where I could get it, and he sent a scan back to me. For this weekend only, then, I've put the scan up on the web here. I'll take it off next week for the avoidance of lawyers!
(Incidentally, the annotations on the scan aren't mine... I'd never consider the tierce de Picardie appropriate.
)Richard
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now this is an unflattering acoustic- http://home.comcast.net/~pqboom/tour/pipeorgn.htmlIn which case, the reason why you do not warm to the Wimborne Minster instrument is due to the unflattering acoustic. Actually, there is probably a better ambience in Dawn French's brassière....Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral organ is, as you probably already know, the 'big brother' to the Wimborne organ. The sound and voicing are similar (allowing for the fact that the Liverpool organ does not have at its heart a three-clavier 1865 Walker).
However, the same voicers were employed on both jobs. The chamades are identical - except that Liverpool also has the lowest twelve notes.
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I would agree with Vox Humana who made the original broad generalisation. If you'd played the Prelude, Adagio and Chorale complete, that would definitely qualify as a virtuoso work. But what's the problem, why be self-deprecating? You're a serious performer with ambitions, dedicating time to building up repertoire - what would qualify you as a virtuoso is a capacity to 'bring any seriously difficult work off'. From that standpoint and compared to the vast majority of players I'm sure you already qualify. If anyone put that in a newspaper review of one of your concerts, you wouldn't write to complain, would you?
Just to be argumentative: There is one Durufle work (much ignored) that is quite playable by those outside the virtuoso class - Prelude sur L'Introit de l'Epiphanie. A lovely piece it is too.
As to the Associated Board syllabus, this has often looked ridiculously advanced to me. I suppose they have to find pieces at the top end of difficulty that are genuinely comparable between instruments. The one thing that does makes sense is that they rarely put down lengthy items. I look forward to seeing the big Reger Fantasies and Jean Berveiller's Cadence down for Grade 6 in the future.
I remember when I took ARCO I had to re-learn 'Wachet Auf!' (Bach's Schubler chorale prelude) which was also down in that year's syllabus for ABRSM Grade 6. Mind you, the RCO wanted it note-perfect.
Paul - coudn't agree more about AB syllabus. BWV 593 is currently down for Grade 8 - as it is for FRCO. One of the harder Schublers appears at Grade 7. Not that long ago Weinen Klagen was down for Grade 8....crazy.
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It really isn't me, nor am I Denise's agent....O superb, how it made me laugh!!! I think we need to do a few charity gigs in aid of derelict organs in your style.
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Barry - They can mean shoddy concerts - it all depends on the ability of the player in question to transcend the difficulties, I think. Best SOver here too, I'm afraid. However - bad working conditions mean shoddy concerts, to which no-one of any discernment would want to go. Perhaps one of the reasons many series are slowly dying or being killed off, whereas ours is growing slowly but surely.Cheers
Barry
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Alas, no, Lee - I'm who everyone thinks I am , even on my day offAaah! So YOU are the famed Miss Denise Hewitt. My goodness, what these organists get up to in their spare time.
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Do be sure to click on the ''all'' button to the right of the screen, if you're at all interested in fashion design.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=52...6435400&q=organSince it's my day off I don't feel so bad about having found this. Enjoy.
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=52...6435400&q=organ
Since it's my day off I don't feel so bad about having found this. Enjoy.
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St John Southend Pond - know it well! I think it's a Hunter rebuilt with extras by Martin Cross (1981 or 1982 maybe?) - the case is in what would be the transept I suppose, with a detached console a long way away on the floor opposite. Haven't been there for years - but I do remember the vicar being a bit of a .....card.Yes, that's the one - still open as far as I know. Don't know about St D's - thankfully!
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well spotted...