Ian Ball
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Posts posted by Ian Ball
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So happy to read - but why (I impishly say!) should it have to be recommended to excellent players?
I'm flattered, but, well, I was less than excellent at the time and that's what I paid him for
More seriously though, it does indeed illustrate your point. The NBA was still fairly new back then and everyone regarded it as Perfection. It was therefore so refreshing to have thinking musician-scholars like dear David suggest alternatives or Peter Hurford point out 'wrong' notes and misprints.It further reinforces my point about players adhering so unutterably to what they have purchased. One of the great challenges has always been with putting Tabluature into Universal Notation - and Buxtehude gives us much exercise in this matter. There are whims of the editor in sending to print what they think should be a Pedal line and what should be for the Left Hand. Bar 55 is an example in the famously great G minor Praeludium and Fuga of Buxtehude. Hannsen Edition (edited by Josef Hedar) gives this skitish fagotto bass line to the pedals but in Breickopf (edited by Klaus Beckmann), to the |Left Hand as it is quite simple to play the upper chords with the tight hand. The times I have heard this section mangled because the player has not used common sense in arranging it to suit them and to perform and interpret with confidence. Others prefer to use the pedals but I detect a modicum of showing off with something here! But it is hard to add true Vif using the pedals as the player really ought to hear precisely the speech of the pipes in the Basso and the snappy Dachshund chords.A further passage that rather hinges on the player perhaps enjoying improvisation more than the written score(!), is the opening of the F# minor Praeludium. This can be taken in all manner of ways and with dynamics too. However, these single lines of certain figurations are born out of improvisatory playing - they are just that, surely. But to me nobody can be serious when they see all this just written in the upper clef as if to be played only with the right hand. From an improviser's point of view (and on any keyboard instrument) I would strongly argue that so much more fantasy can be incorporated into this opening if two hands are used - just as a keyboard player would normally do, I say. Editions printed like this have performers often religiously interpreting it as being just for one hand because that is the editor's way of preparing the edition from the original. If people have the score, try the following fingering (which works on heavy mechanical or extremely light actions as you are able to always give 100% control. In BAR 1 all the lower notes are taken with LH and the upper, with the right. Try either 3 - 1 in the LH or 2 -3, and 2 - 3 in the RH. This makes for brilliant articulation as well as overwhelming control. BAR 2 the LH plays the first note in each group (3rd finger) and the RH (perhaps only with 3 - 1 - 3 or 4 -1 - 4) plays the intervals of 6ths and 5th. This is wonderful to play and within 10 seconds the brain comprehends the harmonic/chordal figuration and there is no need whatsoever after 30 seconds ever to view the score again. You play the whole passage from the spirit in you just like an improviser trying out a keyboard. Honestly!
There are a mountain of such places in music that I can point you to try, but I must go and do the ironing now.
Sorry if all this seems bunkum - but it suits my hands and fingers!
All the best,
N
The famous passage in the G minor I always take with the left hand. Your F# min idea sounds fun and logical. I shall try it! Often so tricky to know how far to go in Buxtehude because of the many editorial decisions taken by those transcribing the tablature. And it's not that so easy to play from the original...
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Thank goodness for that. I do this on the manuals on both occasions (loud and soft). Apart from not wanting to wait for 16' stops to speak, I find that the time it takes to move the hand down the keyboard makes for exactly the right amount of playfulness. I tried to persuade one of my organ scholars (who is now a Dr of Music) of this but he wouldn't have it.
Yes I do too - a David Sanger recommendation and jolly effective.
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The Oxford organ I most disliked as a student was this one at Pusey House. I suppose it would be interesting if it had survived as a relic (and Pierre could visit it!), but I couldn't find anything it did that was useful.
Paul
My brother was organist there whilst he was an undergraduate. He said the post-Mass sherry made everything else tolerable
I think they've gone digital now.
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A different take on old English instruments is the Walker organ at Oriel, of 'older' style than Jesus (although again with some concessions to modern repertoire) and very successful. PCND, you can judge the old Jesus College Binns yourself: it's up Marston Rd, where John Budgen installed it with modifications in St Michael & All Angels.
If Romantic organs are your thing, then the better Oxford organs (at least in my day) were Wadham (gorgeous Father Willis), the Town Hall (4-man Willis); Keble (yes it still just about worked and was fabulous); St Mary & St John's Iffley Road (1914 Norman & Beard in west gallery); and Mansfield (largely untouched Vowles in a stunning Champneys case, although unloved in the late 80s); and of course St Peter's lovely little Willis, mentioned earlier.
With apologies to our hosts, I always preferred the old Magdalen instrument, despite its mongrel nature and heavy case. It's been given a new lease of life by St Edward's School.
Of the ones I never played but looked good on paper at least: Balliol (x2), Somerville (small H&H) and St Clement's Church Martson Rd (large 4-manual Martin which appears to be in a sorry state according to NPOR)
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I would be interested to hear and play this instrument. On paper (which is, I realise, no reliable touchstone) it appears to be less suitable for Romantic repertoire - and the French symphonic school, for example.
I am sure that one could play a Vierne or Widor symphony movement on it (the compasses are quite adequate); but there are a number of things missing which I should wish to have. (More Pedal foundations, clavier flue doubles, strings. 4ft. clavier reeds - if not at least one 16ft. reed; and at least a few combination pedals.)
Obviously I would not suggest that every organ has to be able to cope well with large-scale Romantic music in order to be acceptable. However, I think that I should become ever so slightly bored by this organ after a few weeks' acquaintance. I think that I would almost prefer the stop-list as left by Gray & Davison, in 1934 - which was probably virtually identical to the original instrument by Binns. £48 would not have provided much in the way of stop changes, even in 1921.
Pity about thet bright red woodwork of the case, too.
But why would you want to play Vierne and Widor et al on it [Jesus, Oxford], when there's an equally rich native repertoire for which the instrument was created, which works superbly, and when you can play the former 10 yards over the road? It's an English Classical organ (with the concept extended downwards in the pedals for more flexibility, modern hymn performance and choral accompaniment, no doubt). At least this instrument has STYLE and a unique voice, something sadly lacking in some more eclectic designs. I never got bored of the Real Thing in Gloucester (St Mary de Lode), even with the constraints of a short compass Swell, G-compass Great, no strings, no doubles and one pedal stop.
And may I stick up for Exeter? I like it. It does what it set out to do, and when I last played it (circa 2004) it sounded pretty refined and far closer to the Real Thing than some so-called Cavaillé-Coll copies I've heard, notwithstanding some inevitable compromises. Moreover, it was in every way an improvement on its predecessor! I found it musical, sensitive and exciting; an organ that made me want to play it for hours (in the right repertoire) and be taught by it.
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Some years ago, a little before Nicholsons' restored Gloucester Cathedral organ, I was in a lunch group at a Cathedral Organists' Association conference when David Briggs was outlining the ideas for the work. He mentioned that they were considering the addition of a big solo reed, but placing it was a problem, including in which direction it should fire - down the Nave or up the Quire.
Someone suggested it should be on a turntable - actually, not the daftest idea I've ever heard....
Indeed! It was Ian Fox's idea (DoM, King's School). Chamade on a turntable. We liked it! However, the eventual (and considerably simpler) solution seems to satisfy, as you can all hear at the moment on iPlayer in Parry's F&F in G, beautifully played by Ashley Grote.
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This unbelievable story may lend to think to a kind of Cairo action...
In the meantime, we have made some interesting experiments in
Belgium with toasters versus Beer; it appeared none of those things
can resist a well-targeted falling beer pint.
Pierre
The old British trick used to involve a screwdriver and a can of hairspray...
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It's one of life's mysteries to me why people are still ordering these half-voiced, mechanically suspect 1960s imitation north german baroque contraptions.
At least St Peter's College eventually saw sense and courageously binned theirs (albeit dating from the late 80s!). Their reconditioned little Willis is certainly one of the best instruments in Oxford, set in one of the best acoustics too
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As some of you will know, one of the three large organs Edmund Schulze built in the UK (St.Peter's Hindley, Greater Manchester) is currently unusable.
The specification and part of the story is told here:
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=R00463
The Hugh Banton electronic instrument that took its place in 2003, and some of whose speakers are already installed inside the historic (and listed) case is about to receive further improvements (!). I quote from the parish website
"Currently, we are trying to raise £4,500 to add various extensions to the organ including a Cathedral style echo system and speaker system at the West end, variable tremulants, better control over midi, CCTV views to West End of church etc."
and
"Sponsors are currently being sought to help fund improvements to the organ. We would like to make several improvements to our magnificent organ including the siting of additional louspeakers (sic!) at the back of church, within the Schultz (sic!) casework. This would enable the beautiful sounds that the organ posesses to be heard more distinctly and provide us with an instrument that could accompany services at the east and west end of the church ."
Now, I've heard and seen the work of Hugh Banton. For what it is, i.e. complex and well-installed electronic sound-producing equipment impersonating genuine organ pipes, it is of high quality. However, only someone totally beguiled by flashing lights, console gadgets and what one might politely term 'church music fantasy land' (32' pitch and echos) can possibly (surely??) think that this instrument is more worth expenditure than the unique and historic instrument for which it is 'standing in'.
Opinions anyone?
adnosad: This one' s for you.
I have two other questions to ask...
1. What happens to any pipework that may need to be displaced by extra speakers?
2. Do any of our German friends feel like raising some money to have this organ bought and returned to Germany. I think its present 'custodians' might just go for that!! Put it this way, their totally negative judgement upon this unlucky instrument seems undeniable.
This is so sad. The mind boggles at such a wasteful, misguided approach.
I remember this organ very well. My first organ teacher, the redoubtable Norman Harper, and his wife Marilyn were Organists there during the mid-80s. Heard several stunning performances there (including a wonderful recital by Jennifer Bate) on what was a world class instrument in excellent condition.
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BWV 562 by Bernard Foccroulle at Ottobeuren -a strange french taste which fits-.
Bach copied the music of Grigny, after all....
Such colors one can get from a Joachim Wagner organ as well.
Pierre
Hmm. I find the registration wearisome after a short while, wonderfully colourful though it is. And if you want to 'French-it-up' it doesn't go far enough for me. Surely the descending pairs of [slurred] quavers cry out for Purcellian/Lullian Lombard rhythms (Scotch snap, to you and me)? It all sounds far too 'stiff' for the colours he's using. A bit like hearing a French menu read out in a Sächsisch accent.
Then again, didn't JSB once complain that French musicians were too mannered in their playing and used too many ornaments? So perhaps this is a fair and authentic compromise!
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Odd - I have played at Bath for a service or two and apparently failed to notice it had a Glockenspiel. Is it controlled by drawstop, or some secret switch? To be honest, I would just never bother with such things, but I am a little surprised that I missed it on the stop jambs....
Yep. Drawstop. Bottom right, nuzzling up to the Cymbelstern. Perfect and totally authentic for In Dir ist Freude. Marcus used it to good effect in Duruflé's Op 12 in last week's broadcast. Great fun.
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Oh dear!
This was a bit of a missed opportunity then.
MM
How, exactly? Left hand Harp makes fine entrance exactly as required at 6'54"
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Well a harp is called for in the Willian Introduction, Passacaglia & Fugue, and would certainly spice up Bairstow's Blessed City. Bath Abbey certainly makes ample use of its Glockenspiel
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I have a good reason to re-launch this thread by an example
of an interesting rescue of a british organ, this time not by moving it
outside the UK: the organ of St-Mary de Lode church in Gloucester.
This "music box" has had more chance than some others in that area,
as it was restored in a quite interesting manner, withouth "playing games",
with the aim to go as far back possible towards an original state, but without
w......rising anything in case of doubt, completing the scheme in order to fit
what exists.
The organ is believed to have started life as a one-manual one, and it displays
features that are so tipically english that not only you won't find them outside
the english-speaking countries, but you will rarely find people outside those countries
who know that they exist: namely, the Swell organ -completely unknown outside
Britain up to 1840 or even later- and the Sesquialtera-Cornet as only Mixture
( Never seen on the continent, save some "Mixtur-Cornet" in little organs from
Joachim Wagner, for example).
I could hear it trough Ian Ball's new CD, "Wondrous Machine!" IFBCD 001, obtainable
by Ian Ball himself or Adrian Lucas, who produced and edited it.
The Specifications is as follow:
GREAT (GG, AA to f3)
Open Diapason 8' (rather large for such an organ, maybe modified, they did not know so left it alone)
Stopped Diapason 8'
Principal 4'
Fifteenth 2' (No Twelfth!)
Sesquialtera bass 1 3/5'- 1 1/3'- 1' (Aha, Father Willis, where are you???) Cornet 3 r treble (both new, and bold)
Trumpet (from middle C) 8' (with very very few rattle, clear but little in common with a french one)
Swell to Great
SWELL (Tenor F up to f3)
Open Diapason 8' (gentle, moderate scales, sounds sometimes like a Salicional on the CD)
Stopped Diapason 8'
Principal 4'
Hautboy 8' (again, nothig to compare with an "Hautbois" or a german "Oboe)
Hitsch-down Swell Pedal
PEDAL (C to f)
Bourdon 16' (the existing one was replaced with a more coherent one from the same period as the organ)
Great to Pedal.
On the CD Ian Ball choosed to present us with an ecclectic programme, with the obvious aim to demonstrate
such an organ "can play lots of repertoire", and it works. This organ colors all music with its own -strong- personnality
-it is unusual NEVER to hear the sempiternal Dupré-told-it-was-the-only-good-true-one Quint Mixture with 8, 4 and 2 (only one of each please!) would-be-"baroque" Principal chorus, in a whole CD.
But this is an excellent therapy, and one could advise this organ to many organists as a desintoxication program.
There are many such "Sesquialtera-Cornet" documented as sole Mixture in late-baroque british organs, and now, thanks to this restauration and this CD, Anyone can understand why.
Let us now hope the same commitment will be applied to others british organs from any period, whatever their
make, their actions, their wind-pressure, and and and!
Pierre
This disc is now available for purchase on Amazon here
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Prompted by comments on other threads I wondered if it might be worth starting a thread all about regals and their close relatives, their beauty, form and function.
Cited as good is that on the Aubertin box organ in St John's College, Oxford.
Bad, or worse, are the now landfilled one from the Collins organ in Brasenose, Oxford and the (later addition to) the old instrument in Carisbrooke Castle, IOW.
What do the panel think about the Messingregal 16' at New College, Oxford?
What other examples are there in the UK of this once significant component of the old German organs?
There's a fine 16' regal on the Brustwerk on Clifton Cathedral's Rieger. In a big chorus it adds a whiff of sub-unison, as if a quiet 5 1/3 flue is playing (Kynaston made use of it like that in his famous Bach disc). It could never pretend to create a 'full swell' effect, especially with the Swell mixture being a universe away in pitch. But as a solo voice it is fine, either alone or with a flute or two; as a bass voice, it is also useful (in combination with 8 & 4 flutes, for example), but doesn't speak very quickly so that rules out some obvious potential uses. But the wretched thing was seldom in tune and despite being able to tune it whilst sitting at the console, it was always too much trouble...
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Since one day that it appeared in the news section, nobody started
a thread yet, so I will open it; mind you, the link is on the french forum
since yesterday already, where it meets with some interest, well, even attention
(to say the least):
http://www.mander-organs.com/portfolio/st-...s-southall.html
Continental historians see Abraham Jordan as a kind of myth, someone
completely exotic: this guy built a Swell division in St-Magnus the Martyr,
London, in....1712 !
(In Belgium, we had to wait up to about 1850, just to give a point to compare with...)
And now we can hear that Swell Trumpet, box closed, simply by clicking on the link
towards a video on Youtube. And this, in an instrument which interest goes far beyond
that; the tone of the flue stops seems to be delicate and sweet -recorded in the workshop,
so without even an acoustic to help-.
This restoration is a great news. Please, go on and restore more so tipically british
baroque (and others!) organs as closest possible to their original state.
Mr Mander (and others) can do it, as we can see and hear. But they need to be asked
to do so, so maybe a part of the move lies in your own hands, the organists.
Pierre
Thanks for this, Pierre. Beautiful. It makes a most interesting comparison to the near-identical (and much less altered, over the years) organ of St Mary de Lode, Gloucester, restored by John Budgen in 2004. (The CD is in the post to you, Pierre!)
I look forward to hearing the Jordan/Mander in Southall.
Ian
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The tierce, once an important part of cornet stops, became an embarrassment when organs were built or retuned to equal temperament, because equal temperament has very poor major thirds, and equal temperament and natural harmonic thirds really grate.
Presumably this wasn't too painful in the lower part of the compass.
Wasn't it (in Hill's case) to reinforce the bass and to give 'bite' when the Swell was coupled to the pedals? It is particularly effective in his smaller organs.
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On the Cathedral's website there is a virtual tour which includes a panorama from the organ loft. Clearly visible is a ladder, whose purpose seems to be to allow somone to see (or be seen) over the top of the pulpitum screen into the quire. Judging by the wear on the bottom 4 rungs, this has seen regular use. Is this a relic from pre-CCTV days or does it still serve any useful purpose?
DP
Was never there in my time. Could it be that the cameraperson put it there to photograph the quire/east end?? -
Is there a stoplist for this out and about yet - or a view of the case design?
A
I don't think it's in the public domain yet, no.
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It can be done though - the design of the ill-fated Walker organ case in the early 90s was lovely; the proposed Tickell case design altogether more stunning and in perfect harmony with the building. However, many architects prefer windows to organ cases, or demand modern 'statements' that will date quickly. Let's hope all the ducks line up nicely at Manchester. The results should be wonderful.
My two-penneth on the current instrument, for what it's worth, is that whilst the aisle cases cannot be seen from the centre nave, they are obvious from everywhere else in what is basically a broad, square building. Hideous grey wardrobes. Tonally, I always liked most of the organ, but the Great is the poorest division. Very little to love there. Significantly, it's the division that's been tinkered with the most, with only limited success. I understand that the current proposals include integration of more current pipework than just the 32-foot curtain shakers in the Jesus Chapel
As an aside, it's a great shame the 1860 Nicholson was put in the wrong place in Manchester - it is a wondrous machine in every respect. It's also a pity for old John Nicholson that many people assume the instrument's current sound (in its new home at Portsmouth) is down to the modern Nicholsons. 90% of it isn't, I remember it well from its Bolton days. And the Solo Ophicleide was originally intended as a chamade reed for Manchester, but got lifted up in a last minute change.
IFB
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I have played this CD at least 5 times since it arrived and there is more and more to enjoy each time. It's just a wonderful organ superbly played and I think that
mechanical sounds from the instrument add so much to the ambience of the recording. Brill!
I see from Ebay that Jeremy Filsell has nicked the title for his new disc of Arthur Wills' music...
Thank you. Very kind of you to take the trouble to post this.
Jeremy's wonderful disc with this title came earlier; Christopher Stembridge's before that, I think. As the title comes from poet, Nicholas Brady, and has been used countless times, I don't think I can be sued for 'passing off'!
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"Ich sitze in dem kleinsten Zimmer in meinem Hause. Ich habe Ihre Kritik vor mir. Im nächsten Augenblick wird sie hinter mir sein." Max Reger to Rudolph Louis, critic for the Münchner Neuste Nachrichten, after reading a bad review published on 7 February, 1906. ("I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!")
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Hi Ian,
This item is now listed as sold and no longer available.
I hope you did have more than one copy made!
Sorry - Ebay selling novice. All sorted and plenty available! Thanks for the nudge. I'd be grateful, Fiffaro, if you would kindly edit your posting to remove the quote, so that the amended link in my original posting directs people to the right listing. Thank you
Ian
More seriously though, it does indeed illustrate your point. The NBA was still fairly new back then and everyone regarded it as Perfection. It was therefore so refreshing to have thinking musician-scholars like dear David suggest alternatives or Peter Hurford point out 'wrong' notes and misprints.
Willis on the radio
in The Organ
Posted
Plus brief highlights on Pick of the Week