S_L
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Posts posted by S_L
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4 hours ago, Peter Allison said:
don't want to put a dampener on it, BUT the way things are going, what with money been sought after from many many places, large organs in cold underused buildings will find it harder and harder, until places just shut down , especially the churches (that have been in decline for years now) imho
But Hull Minster isn't a cold, underused building. It is, now, a vibrant, much used, building. As well as it's role as the Civic Church with all that entails, there is a thriving choral programme, concerts, exhibitions and all that one would associate with a busy city church. It also, like the Metropolitan Cathedral in Liverpool, hosted a Beer Festival - last week!
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3 hours ago, Barry Oakley said:
Enormous thanks, Stephen!
It will be done eventually - but whether you and I live to see it is another matter!!!!
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Whilst forumites are mentioning instruments they hope to see rebuilt/restored/replaced and, before Barry Oakley starts banging the drum before me, let me get in first and mention the sleeping giant in Holy Trinity, Hull, now known as Hull Minster. Arguably the largest Parish church in England, it contains a magnificent four manual beast, last worked on in the 1930's. The organ has survived the bombing of that great city during WWII, the 'organ reform movement' of the 1960's and a considerable amount of 'happy-clappyness'. Now the Minster is being regenerated. The building has had millions spent on it, a choral tradition has begun and is developing, as well as a singing programme for Hull schools.
Surely someone, somewhere, has a spare million pounds!!!!
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2 hours ago, Steve Goodwin said:
Talking of getting a bad press...
Diapason Phonon. A very powerful diapason .... The stop is associated with the name of Hope-Jones. It is difficult to think that it has any artistic value.
Diaphone. A valvular reed ... developed by Hope-Jones, and of more use as a foghorn, for which it is valuable, than as a voice in the organ.The Organ - WL Sumner p.307
It might, very well, have been Sumner where I read 'Somehow he managed to sell one to Worcester Cathedral'
Clearly not a fan!
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I'm quite fascinated by Hope-Jones. I played Ambleside once (yes, I know, rebuilt and rebuilt - does it still have it's concrete swell-box?) There is a line of thought that, perpetuated by some English writers (There is a line somewhere 'Somehow he managed to sell one to Worcester Cathedral') that he was an awful builder, a telephone engineer turned organ builder. And, of course, his rivals, at the time perpetuated such myths and his work was sabotaged in Hendon, Ormskirk and Burton-on-Trent. I'm sure his instruments were fairly unmusical with a preponderance of 8' stops and little upper work but he was, clearly, an inventor and a thinker and, I suspect, history views him slightly differently now to, perhaps, 40/50 years ago.
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On 15/04/2022 at 23:16, bigwold said:
If you mean the metal flaps attached to the the tops of the open wood pipes, that is how they are tuned.
I'm certain that Contrabombarde doesn't mean that at all.
The pipes look to me as if they have a screw-in eye hook which fits over the slightly bent metal rod coming from a central piece of wood and that holds the pipes in place. Stronger than a piece of ribbon/string/cloth etc. but I've never seen that before!
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20 hours ago, SomeChap said:
It seems Skrabl have well and truly arrived on the UK musical scene.
Some of us would say that they have been here for some considerable time - others would disagree, I suspect!!!
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2 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:
......................................... I came across the Wikipedia entry for Wolf intervals. ....................
I have long raged about Wikipedia. I'm mentioned on half a dozen sites and, at one point there was a site devoted to me! It had so many inaccuracies that I attempted to correct it without success and, eventually, I had it removed.
My mother, long since deceased, is also mentioned on Wikipedia - but on Military Wiki - which seems to be more accurate than the mainstream site.
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On 09/04/2022 at 14:05, Phoneuma said:
I don’t post as much as I used to but I still come here only because it still has that balance of knowledge, decent debate and good manners. Forums come and go but I’m pleased this one has survived, albeit somewhat shrunk.
For those wondering about ‘that FB site’ the very latest ‘post’ (comparing DACs to donkeys) epitomises the lowest common denominator Colin mentions.
I think 'that site' often shows organists in a very bad light. Some may even say that it typifies the race! I'm not a member and I have no intention of joining. The comments by Phoneuma and by Dr. Colin are 'spot on'!!
'balance of knowledge',' decent debate' and 'good manners' is what we have here - absolutely correct
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Here is a recording of the opening recital - given, as mentioned above, by Olivier Latry
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3 hours ago, Barry Oakley said:
I cannot let this topic pass by without reference to the still silent, magnificent 104-stop, 4-manual Forster & Andrews/John Compton organ in Hull Minster. It's awaiting the generosity of funds from charitable trusts that are still to become evident! Hull is a city without a cathedral but the Minster fulfils that function with its grandeur. It's just as important to the city as the cathedrals in Liverpool, Norwich, Bristol, York, Canterbury, Gloucester etc., etc., Please don't forget the city of Kingston upon Hull, to give it its proper title.
That's it Barry - keep banging the Hull drum!! Someone will listen one day and it will be done! Of that I am sure!!!
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On 24/03/2022 at 14:10, undamaris said:
It's a wonderful instrument! I'm curious about their plan for a small Holdich organ to be installed as an "orgue de choeur".
St. Chad's Cathedral has, on the music staff, three very fine players including, surely, one of the UK's finest liturgical organists and, at the risk of getting it wrong, or into trouble, I suspect the influence of the Organiste Honoraire here! I suspect that the plan is that the orgue de choeur will accompanying the choir sitting in the stalls in the front of the nave and the Walker, in the back gallery, being used to accompany the congregation and play the improvisations/voluntaries before and after Mass. Rather like a French Cathedral may have been before the baby and bath water was thrown out following the Second Vatican Council. I also suspect that, no matter how small the Holdich is, it will sound, in the hands of the Organiste Honoraire, totally magnificent and huge - rather like the little two manual at the back of the Birmingham Oratory sounded during his time there. I also suspect a well-worn path down the north aisle as the aforesaid gentleman commutes, frequently, between the two organs during the Mass!!!
I really look forward to the experience!!!
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8 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:
It might be rather difficult for Donald Hunt to express an opinion of any sort on what has just been written ...
9 hours ago, S_L said:A very fine church musician of the 19th century - genius? - never - but, of course, others, obviously including Donald Hunt, may disagree!!!
Colin. Forgive my clumsy English, written at 04h30 this morning!!! What I meant to say was that, I disagreed with Donald Hunt's analysis of Wesley as a genius! I am aware of Mr Hunt's death in 2018.
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20 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Donald Hunt’s book ‘Samuel Sebastian Wesley’ which is full of fascinating new insights about the man and his music, and his influence on later musicians including Stanford, Parry and Elgar, to name just three. Rather than inflict on fellow readers a further lengthy post about the book, let me quote just its final sentence: “Samuel Sebastian Wesley was an extraordinary cathedral musician, and a genius.”
I have a book, given to me by the late, great Harold Truscott, called 'Truth, Wit and Wisdom'. It is a collection of letters, written to newspapers between c1895 and 1902, by Algernon Ashton, a British composer, diarist (he kept a daily diary from the age of 15 until his death - 58 volumes - destroyed in WWII bombing) and letter writer. In the, over 500 letters, published in two volumes, he wrote to newspapers, there are a number on the subject of "What constitutes a genius!"
It is, perhaps, remiss of me to say this but I'm afraid that I never had much time for Mr Hunt's scholarship and his statement that S.S. Wesley was a genius rather grates! I am sure that he was an extraordinary cathedral musician but his musical output is, as far as I can see, almost exclusively for the Church of England, there is little else! If I remember there is a string quartet of no real substance. There are no symphonies, no concerti, opera, other chamber music or instrumental music. Some of his hymn tunes are very fine indeed - but only four make it into Vaughan Williams edition of English Hymnal although five are found in EH revised. 'Hereford' is beautiful, less so, in my opinion, 'Aurelia' Some of the Anthems. 'Thou wilt keep him', 'Ascribe unto the Lord' have become 'classics' in the Cathedral and Parish choir repertoire 'Lead me, Lord' (from 'Praise the Lord, O my Soul') is a little gem (much the same as 'O taste and see' of RVW)
A very fine church musician of the 19th century - genius? - never - but, of course, others, obviously including Donald Hunt, may disagree!!!
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Rochester Cathedral:
Director of Music and Organist vacancy in South East (churchtimes.co.uk)
Keble College, Oxford
Director of Music vacancy in London and Home Counties (churchtimes.co.uk)
R.C. Diocese of Leeds
Full-time Choral Director vacancy in Yorkshire and Lincs (churchtimes.co.uk)
And, on the subject of Choral Foundations I have been watching the celebration of the Mass and of Evensong, broadcast regularly, on YouTube, from Merton College, Oxford. And, I have to say, how impressed I have been with the quality and choice of the music.
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11 hours ago, Christopher Brown said:
In my opinion we massively over think these issues today. 19th century musicians were likely aware of the trade-offs, had their own preferences, but made the best of what came their way. Very likely that included transposing, editing, and gritting of teeth as they judged most expedient.
Today we have to do likewise and judge for ourselves. We may reach a different view - context cannot be ignored - we have heard Debussy and Stockhausen and cannot un-hear it, Wesley never did!
At the risk of offending fellow members who, via the board, have become friends and confidents, I have to whole-heartedly agree. This subject, I'm sure, is fascinating, but it has left me entirely cold and, quite frequently, very lost!!!
I speak as one who has played Debussy, haven't we all, and Stockhausen - and who mourned the death of George Crumb last month!!
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13 hours ago, Contrabombarde said:
Absolutely not; I have never had any connection.
Apologies! It was your use of the word 'we' that made me think that!
"or are we better off not trying to restore ageing pneumatics but starting afresh"
My mistake!
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18 hours ago, Contrabombarde said:
It had a major restoration back in 1990 including retaining and presumably refurbishing its original pneumatic action, didn't it? Is it a case of 30 years daily use is good going, or are we better off not trying to restore ageing pneumatics but starting afresh?
Your use of 'we' tells us that you have some input into the restoration at Bristol. Surely, I would have though that, seeing as a builder has been appointed and a date for the work to commence has been given, that a contract will have been signed which will encompass the restoration of the present action or starting afresh! Is this not the case?
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On 19/02/2020 at 14:02, MusingMuso said:
Something I overlooked when releasing the Compton tome, was to pay tribute to all those (some no longer with us) who contributed so much. Even tiny bIts of information have been useful in building up the narrative and gaining an insight into the Compton company and its achievements.
So to all who have tirelessly followed what must have been the longest thread in the history of the Mander Discussion Forum, a very heartfelt Thank You.
MMI'd quite like to read MM's 'tome' but can't find a link to get a copy, or reference to it anywhere. Is anyone in touch with MM who was a very regular contributor, but doesn't appear to have been here since February 2020?
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10 hours ago, DaveHarries said:
He seems to have done quite a bit of work ....................................................... but no audio recording that I know of.
NPOR says that there is a recording of the renovated Postill organ in St. Thomas of Canterbury RC Church in Arbroath.
The link is here http://www.musiclink.co.uk/isob/postill.html - but I cant get it to work. Perhaps someone more technically minded can!!
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David. You are, very clearly, a man on a mission - and are to be commended for that!
But, I have to say, I wouldn't put up those last three as reasons why the instrument should be kept! I'm sorry, but I found them as dull as ditch-water!!! The last one particularly!
Only my opinion, of course!
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3 hours ago, Barry Oakley said:
Well said Peter and Colin! I say so with a dilemma, knowing that the large but now silent and glorious organ where I was once a chorister is in need of at least a £million to get it operating again. In 1938 it was rebuilt and enlarged for a figure of around £6K.
Good on yer Barry!!
Keep banging the Hull Minster (Holy Trinity) drum!!!
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1 hour ago, Adnosad said:
Quote my reply to aforesaid here :-
Reply sent Monday 18:01 " Okay,fine by me, feel free to change".
And the other response from you?
Hi
eeerm............no actually.
On 01/02/2022 at 19:22, S_L said:At least that is what I thought until he refused to amend it.
As I said YOU refused to change it!!
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2 hours ago, David Pinnegar said:
The instrument here isn't your normal sort of musical commodity like a Steinway in a concert hall nor a teaching instrument in a practice room, but the sonic backdrop in 1927 to the building constructed, I believe, as the largest War Memorial in the world. Those hearing its greatness in the following decade went off to fight Hitler to achieve the freedoms that we now take for granted, and were willing to die to defend them. Those who followed, the instrument has inspired. Grandeur, and the determination of the school's ethos "Deo Dante Dedi" make this instrument an intrinsic part of the building, of the heritage and of memory.
For this reason normal arguments which may well have their place elsewhere do not apply here.
Were this instrument a matter of serving a concert hall, or a cathedral, where an instrument is there to do its job, I'd bow to pragmatic arguments about repertoire and function and whatever opinions there might be about the needs of an instrument to perform duties. But the duty of a War Memorial is that of memory, and that purpose is sacrosanct. The instrument is of its building and of its time.
Were any stone-mason be under instruction to remove the pediment of the Parthenon and change the columns from Doric to Corinthian what might people say about both those instructing the mason and the mason himself?
Those responsible for the care of a War Memorial or any other part of our Heritage might "own" the site as a matter of technicality but in practice they are curators and caretakers for the future generations that they themselves might benefit from that heritage. The Firman given by the Turkish occupiers to Lord Elgin to remove the Parthenon Frieze has not worn well the test of time.
Best wishes
David P
You might be surprised, but I don't disagree with a lot that you have written here.
However it's emotional stuff and I'm not sure emotional stuff always cuts ice!!! You write "Those hearing its greatness in the following decade went off to fight Hitler to achieve the freedoms that we now take for granted, and were willing to die to defend them." My mother was in SOE, and in France in 1944/45, so I know a little bit, albeit second-hand, about the fight against Hitler! Of course you could have written "Those sitting in chapel bored to death at listening to tedious organ music ............................... defend them."
Is the organ part of the War Memorial? or does it just exist within the War Memorial?
I've seen posts about this in other places. Presumably you have contacted the school, English Heritage, Commonwealth War Graves etc.
Tricky one - and I suspect it isn't going to go away without some metaphorical blood being shed!!!
RIP Simon Preston CBE
in General discussion
Posted
One of the 'giants' of the organ world of the 20th century. Organ Scholar at Kings, Master of the Music at Westminster Abbey, he was hugely influential as a player and authority on all matters pertaining to the organ.
In this Easter season I wonder how many times his Alleluyas has had an outing! I remember a particularly fine performance given by a friend, after the morning Gottesdienst, in the Klosterkirche in Barsinghausen, near to Hanover on a modern, German, tracker action, box of whistles that you only had to look at and it screamed at you - loudly! The piece made quite an impact!
Requiem Aeternam dona eis Domine