Aeron Glyn Preston
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Posts posted by Aeron Glyn Preston
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Although many fine instruments must regrettably have been destroyed as churches of all denominations have become redundant, arguably many poor instruments must have been weeded out. If we can assiduously save our most important and best instruments, there is an opportunity to restore the reputation of the organ as a musical instrument.
I must point out that the above is an attempt to find a silver lining in a large charcoal-grey cloud that hangs over many parish churches and non-conformist chapels in the UK
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On looking at the specification of the old Schulze organ at St Peter's, Hindley (http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N10905), I noticed the curious stoplist of the Great. Am I right in assuming that the Great Octave coupler was a crucial part of the design, simulating a chorus much more like that at St Bartholomew's, Armley, for example?
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Thank you, Friedrich.
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I seem to remember a story about the performance of a work by Bach in his lifetime. The work was being performed outside, and the band had trumpets in. I gather that one trumpeter died in the middle of said performance. Am I recalling this correctly, or did I imagine it?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRdq2Ju5ApE
From about 17 minutes in, a clip of the above-mentioned organ.
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THanks for reminding me of this, I played the Rothwell a few years ago and was most impressed both by its ingenuity and its sound. Miniture stop keys mounted between the manuals where thumbpistons normally go - how simple, elegant and easy to operate!
I quite agree! It certainly works for a small- to medium-size organ, as Gregynog is. I'm not sure how well it would work for a large organ, although I gather that stop-keys were used on the Temple Church console, IIRC. What's particularly clever at Gregynog is the duplication of the Pedal stops on each set of stop keys, so that they can be selected from any manual.
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My former organ at Christ Church Sparkbrook (3-man 1877 Bishop) had a Choir suboctave to Great coupler (but no unison C-G). Actually really quite useful as it was the only way of getting a 16 foot effect on full Great. Never seen this anywhere else. Contrabombarde
The Rothwell organ at Gregynog has exactly this feature too.
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Thanks. Unfortunately its out of print. Anyone got a copy I can buy s/h?
Why not ask Johnny Vaughan at Wells Cathedral? The choir sang Spirit of the Lord in their recent BBC R3 broadcast.
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As Martin Cooke has already mentioned, the 'Dorian' Toccata and Fugue (BWV 538) is well worth a look. Personally, I find the Fugue to be one of the most satisfying and rewarding pieces ever written by Bach.
I couldn't agree more about the Fugue; I'd also say the same about the Toccata. In the Fugue, I love the clashing idea that first appears in b. 16 - very cheeky! The dissonances caused by the repeated stretti (entries always a bar apart) are also charmingly piquant. About the Fugue in general, for me it has a sense of inevitability and order without sounding mechanical. The ineluctable logic of the counterpoint turns each entry of the simple, almost banal subject into a little journey. I would say the same of the 'Gratias agimus' from the B-minor Mass.
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As we are wont to say in our part of the world, Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i chi i gyd!
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A good starting point might be the National Pipe Organ Register (http://www.npor.org.uk/) You can search organs by builder and select dates: click on "NPOR" in the navigation menu, then "Search by builder".
A cursory glance of some of the specs that I saw for "Bevington%" between 1870 and 1873 seemed to suggest that quint-only mixtures predominated, but perhpas more digging might reveal to the contrary.
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This is a Conacher that I play from time to time. It was funded by the Davies sisters of Llandinam (later of Gregynog). It has some pleasant sounds. but the tutti is really only based on the Large Open Diapason, full Swell with octave coupler and the Trumpet. The pedal division is very weak too. What are other members' experiences of Conacher organs? Is there a 'golden period' for these? Any gems among them?
I gather that Peter Conacher trained in Germany and later worked for Hill. What were the greatest influences on his company's organs?
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David Lowe was the Director of Music at Norwich for a time, I believe, and Dunnett got a new title.
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This has a cunning way of making up for the lack of pedal stops.
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Of course - but the limit was eight stops and one cannot therefore have everything.
Whilst I realise that it is not ideal, the rationale was that the Swell Flauto Traverso and the Viola da Gamba would combine (also with the G.O. Stopped Diapason) to form an acceptable foundation - almost as good as an Open Diapason. Together with a bold Principal, this (it is hoped) would make a reasonable compromise.
For the record, with regard to your own scheme, I wonder why there is a Dulciana on the G.O. In such a small scheme, this could be said to be almost a waste of a rank....
I am also unsure of the wisdom of splitting the chorus between the claviers; in effect, this will reduce it to a one-clavier instrument.
I could see how the Swell 8' stops could combine to form something akin to a Principal tone - sounds like a reasonable compromise. Did Cavaillé-Coll not do something similar on his smaller organs?
I find a Dulciana quite useful myself: I like the gentleness without edge. I know from your previous postings that you are not keen on Dulcianas. Would a Gamba or a Keraulophon be more to your liking? I do think a soft stop of this kind is useful. The sawing down of Dulcianas to make Fifteenths does little to disprove the charge that organists like to play too loudly!
As to splitting the chorus up, I don't think it's necessarily such a bad thing only to have one chorus on a two-manual instrument. Many small parish churches would scarcely cope with a plenum consisting of two choruses on great and chaire/positif, let alone need such a thing. I can think of situations where moving from "Fonds" to Chorus/8'+4' to Stopped Diapason quickly would be quite handy - responsorial psalms, for example, or accompanying plainchant alternating between choir and congregation, or between cantor and choir. I believe some of Kenneth Tickell's earlier schemes for Catholic churches consist of a decent chorus on one manual and a solitary stopped diapason on another. Where two manuals would really come into its own is when a solo line needs to be brought out. The next addition to my scheme would be a Nazard and a Tierce (perhaps split treble/bass) to the second manual.
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I would really miss the Open Diapason in your scheme, pcnd. Even if height were an issue, could the bass of an OD not be stopped, with 4' helper pipes added to fill in missing harmonics?
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This is mine:-
I
Open Diapason 8'
Stopped Diapason 8'
Dulciana 8'
Principal 4'
II
Stopped Diapason 8' (from I)
Gemshorn/Flute 4'
Fifteenth 2'
Mixture III
Pedal
Bourdon 16'
Couplers
I-P; II-P; II-I; I-II.
I've cheated slightly by duplexing the Stopped Diapason. The Fifteenth and the Mixture would complete the chorus whose foundation is on the first manual. The last coupler (I-II) would allow the player to switch easily between the "Fonds" (for want of a better word) and the full chorus. The 4' Flute should be strong enough to cope with 8'+4'+2' on the second manual: I've seen plenty of box organs with a 4' Flute and a Fifteenth, yet no Principal.
The next stop I would add would be a Trumpet to Manual II, which would be duplexed to the Pedal.
I recently came across this lovely Walker (N11698). What isn't mentioned in the NPOR record is that the Double Diapason is only from Tenor C, and that the Fifteenth and Mixture are enclosed. The upperwork blends perfectly well with the 8'+4' when the box is opened, yet it's very handy being able to hold it back a bit.
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Cromwell’s head is buried (after an extraordinary series of adventures) in an unmarked spot in the grounds of a Cambridge College but I don't know where the rest of him ended up.
In the antechapel of Sidney Sussex College.
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Oh, well if it was moved, then I would spend every penny moving it back! Especially if George Street provided his customary outhouse in a distant ditch for the organ to go.
Luckily, there's no outhouse, but someone clearly sawed bits off the Gothic-style tops of the façade, in order to jam the organ underneath the archway at the end of the arcade from Abbey Cwmhir. I'd be interested to see what Hill did to it - I might go to consult the material in the BOA archives soon. This might be important in the case of the Great Mixture, for example. Wasn't Hill fond of Mixtures with Tierces in the bass only? Could he have removed a Tierce rank from the top of the Mixture?
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Hi
BOA only shows Wadsworth as having tuned the organ in the 1870's - and if this organ dates from the 1840's, that's too early for Wadsworth (1860 is earliest known date of operation of the firm). It could be by them - or have been rebuilt by them, but there's no documentary evidence for this, it could be by another builder altogether from the info on NPOR.
Every Blessing
Tony
Organ is definitely from 1845-6, and was moved to the chancel sometime in 1880-2 when George Street refurbished the church. (http://www.cpat.demon.co.uk/projects/longer/churches/montgom/16880.htm)
I think the pedal organ would be priority. Any one else got any thoughts?
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I'd go with the Great Double if there really is space on the soundboard - but how likely is it that the space could have been vacated by the Cremona alluded to? I would also re-complete the Gt Mixture as 12.15.17 (I presume the two ranks NPOR gives in the treble is as a result of one being removed, as seems to have been fashionable). The Stopped Bass should probably be called just that, but knowing Wadsworth anything would be possible.
With F compass and non-overhanging keyboards it would be a reasonable guess that the action just needs some time setting up *properly*, something which virtually nobody seems able to do. It would seem unusual for the action to have been replaced, especially without the opportunity being taken to provide extra notes to G, which can quite often be fitted onto a soundboard.
In restoration terms I would make a more appropriate pedalboard.
The Trumpet voicing can be sorted. The Flute compass ought probably to stay as it is, since it's likely that the racking space for a bottom octave has already been allocated to the Lieblich Gedact.
The chorus is as complete as the maker intended it to be, so I would certainly not be adding anything else. Wadsworth made fine quality organs.
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I'd be very interested to see what members of this board would consider if they were in charge of a rebuild/restoration of this organ, with a generous budget. I'm thinking about changes to the stoplist.
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=D02032
The organ itself, is, if I remember correctly, from the late 1840's. BOA notes improvements by Hill in 1892. The current console is, AFAIK, from the late 60's/early 70's. The mechanical action on the organ at the moment (possibly from the last restoration) is not very reliable: the pedal coupling to the Swell is particularly erratic. Space for a Great double seems to have been prepared.
My ideas:-
- Great double (Bourdon or Bourdon/Tenoroon in mid-19C style?)
- New Great mixture without tierce, with a separate Seventeenth stop.
- Stopped diapason bass to replace the Lieblich Gedeckt bass on the Great.
- Complete compass of Flute 4' on the Great.
- New Great trumpet in a style fitting the rest. (The current Great trumpet honks rather unpleasantly, does not seem to be in the right style.)
- Entirely new pedal division. My suggested scheme (no extension): Contrabass 16'; Subbass 16'; Quint 10 2/3' (soft enough to be used with the Subbass); Open Flute 8'; Octave Flute 4'; Trombone 16'; Trumpet 8' (perhaps from Great?).
- Full-compass Quintatön 16' on the Swell.
- Mixture on the swell, completing the small principal chorus.
- Salicional and Voix célestes (TC) on the swell.
Though someone has messed about with the organ quite a bit, the essential character of the organ is still audible, and I wouldn't want to replace it, if it were my decision.
Any thoughts?
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TRIPE. Most films/tv shows dont have a church or religious scene in them. Even the funerals/weddings etc now have a cd played on tv. #
They STILL dont know the difference between an organ and a piano. To them they are the same thing. Keyboard is a piano, piano is a keyboard, organ is a piano, organ is a keyboard, keyboard is an organ. If it has keys, they are the same thing to the public.
This, sadly, is my personal experience too.
Parish church organs - the future?
in General discussion
Posted
Do ordinands receive any advice/training on musical matters as a matter of course? This is a serious question, by the way.