Pierre Lauwers

Of course if it's possible to work that way, it is better. I had quite other situations in mind -and another kind of consultants!-. Another point that may be interesting to question is it seems the romantic organ was the voicer's thing, not the consultants's. With Cavaillé-Coll the "King" was Gabriel Rheinburg, with Walcker Fritz Walcker. These two men did quite a lot to build their respective firms's reputation. And they were very well paid, which says more than many many words. (By the way, I'd like to know more about english voicers like Green, Willis, the ones that worked first for Hope-Jones then H&H, William Thynne, last but not least by Hill). Later the classic revival organ was the triomph of the consultants. Who says today "This organ has been voiced by...?", but everybody knows the disposition was written by Dr... I believe if we put more attention to the voicing and less to the scholar knowledge, we shall automatically get more poetry from new organs (whatever the style). Worcester is one of the best example I know for that. From a theoretical point of view this is a "non-sense organ". Any student organist could propose "betterings" for it. But from an emotional standpoint I wonder if anybody today could actually do better. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Maybe because the result is a Fisk organ! As I said, I often noted whenever such dispositions do succeed, you neither have one thing or the other, but something else. Let's take an example: Victor Gonzalez. Trained as a voicer by Cavaillé-Coll, he met a young german whose name was Rudolf Von Beckerath. A lover of the old Schnitger organs, Von Beckerath went to work in France with Gonzalez; together, the two men enjoyed "re-inventing the good ancient organ". The result is still nowadays believed to be an incredible mixture of ultra-modern design (no cases, but often with tracker action still during Victor Gonzalez life), romantic, "baroque french" and "north german baroque" stops. But a good Gonzalez organ is completely different from these three sources. It is an instrument where Alain, Duruflé, Messiaen etc thrive. Now whenever you had an "expert" who imponed his views, wanting for instance a Positiv with pipes like this-and-that, and a Swell like (Willis/ H&H/ACC/ Walcker, whatever), the result was a failure. One could as well have adopted aequal temperament for one part of the organ an a mesotonic one for the other. I believe the voicing rooms should work with closed doors; no way/ no pasaran/ Eingang verboten/ toegang verboden/ entrée interdite. Everyone having read what Marcel Dupré or Helmut Bornefeld wrote about tonal matters will understand. Any voicer having worked with them must have been addicted to the timely Prozac! Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I'd say: "If they had been left alone", and new instruments build in another part of the church.... Here is a link to the Disposition of the Kern organ for Dresden: http://www.kernpipeorgan.com/francais/dresden.htm Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, It seems the project was *somewhat* discussed, but not mainly for the reasons Mr Mander mentions, I fear; rather, it was because of the choice of a foreign builder! (The people are the same everywhere...) About the disposition now, I myself would of course never has choosed something like that, but this organ is intended for the dresdians, not us. Maybe they need somewhere to "try it", I mean a kind of design they didn't had the chance to have when it was time to do so. Now I'm very curious to hear how Kern will sort it out. Stoplists are just that: name's lists. If the Swell is really voiced like an ACC's, and the rest "Silbermann-like", one can expect *slight* problems. I doubt Kern would take such a risk on his excellent reputation...Wait and hear. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, I didn't mean this one of course -and yes, let us hear it first-. By "neo-classic" I mean older instruments; organs such as these, build today, are maybe something else. By "worthwile neo-classic organs", I understand examples such as these: -Soissons, Gonzalez 1956 (Maybe the best) -Bailleul, Gonzalez 1933 (extremely original and refined) -Antwerpen, Klais 1931 (20 years in advance on others) -Beauvais, Danion-Gonzalez 1979 (more modern, more "baroque") -Châtelet (Belgium), Delmotte 1942 Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

It seems Harrison did not discount H-J's tonal qualities, tough... But no matter, fact is, this organ sounds magnificently, and, to my mind, not really like a genuine H&H; it's rather something of its own. Tough not "classic", the Diapason choruses present something else than plain romantic ones. A kind of versatility and "grandeur" one rarely find in modern ones too. This is "the organ per se", with which one can get a "Full Swell" as well as a "pure" Diapason chorus. Very rare! "Hotch-potch jigsaw"-organs are over. We know today this does not work. I know of several excellent neo-classic organs; in each case, their voicers avoided to have "clashes" between very different things, for instance "french-romantic" 8' flues ensembles with "would be Silbermann's" choruses. Or they did go more one way, or the other. The scholars of course disagreeded about such choices, that actually destroyed their dreams, and these instruments were forgetted. Today we need to discover them again. But if we want today a "french" organ next to an "english" one, better to keep them apart, with their own consoles. I personnaly nurture some strange synthesis ideas, tough; but these would end up with a new kind of organ, not a simple addition of differing things. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, this is quite interesting and resembles somewhat to others situations where the actual contents of a "uninteresting" organ aren't known (as if: "not worth any study). As far as one can find in the litterature: -H-J would have re-used very little of the Hill's organs. After "The organs and music of Worcester cathedral", Vernon Butcher, 1981, page 22: "Hope-Jones completed his task in 1896, but much of the pipework of the existing two organs was discarded in favor of his own work". -The Harrison & Harrison rebuild of 1925 was somewhat limited: (From the same source, page 25): "The new Harrison organ was opened in April 1925. The mechanism was electro-pneumatic, with drawstops instead of stop keys, but the Hope-Jones composition keys were kept. New chorus work, nine ranks in all, was added to the Great, and altough a number of the Hope-Jones names remained, some of the stops were revoiced". And so the organ remained up to.....1972!!! it's only then than the Diaphones were disabled, along with some "updating" in the tonal scheme. So it may be reasonably assumed there could remains a bit more of Hope-Jones in this organ as one could believe. A torough rebuild never happened. The example of the Namur cathedral's organ is another one of a mistake that could happen: It was build round 1835-40 by Korfmacher, Aachen (Germany), at a time when a certain Josef Merklin was busy there as manager. Well, am I foolish to assume this could have been a worthwile organ? Not a "romantic" yet, rather something to be compared with the very earlier William Hills. Who would dare "update" such a thing today? And yet it was destroyed in 1968 (not forty years ago) and replaced by an elucubration I would not dare to show to Mr Mander. Now the question is: what previous pipework was retained in this "rebuild"? -Some sources say: the display pipes. -Others say: Many.... Today the whole is in a state only a keen specialist could tell something like "Well, this could be Korfmacher's...Maybye". To say the least, such organs deserve a complete, torough inventory of their pipe-works, with all the means our "modern-enlighted(?)" civilisation (?) has at its disposal... Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well.... Obviously, any church that would be "upgrated" (?) into a dancing might well attract some people more than a "normal" one...But then? Faith and marketing go togheter like a Dulciana would with Drums and electrocuted guitars ( apologies, I meant "electric") Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Yes! I'm afraid this testifies for a wish to avoid to debate. Of course, to join us here would be far from easy, but I do not think we would eat them alive here (If we dealt with football, maybe...) Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

retaining the existing organ is the easy option. (Citation Mr Jones) Well, maybe it's the reverse. As far as my experience has shown, to keep such "out of the rails", "outmoded" instrument is far from easy. In the long term, it seems the future belongs to original, charachterfull organs (The style isn't important, provided there is one). Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

So why cannot he do a "rehash" at Worcester, with Tickell do a new nave job??? problem solved. Reputation intact. (Roffensis's citation) If "rehash" means a sympathetic restauration, this would be the reasonable way to go. In the end Worcester would have two different, worthwile organs. So what? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I totally agree with Roffensis. Two points that may deserve some thoughts: -It seems the "Classic revival" is still strong in the UK. (here it is over) -Organs that may seem "quite ordinary" from a local point of view may appear completely original from abroad. We from abroad do not want you to imitate german or french organs, we want you to present us your unique, original instruments, and the music that suits them. (If I want to hear Bach, Germany is about 60 Miles from here, so...) Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well.... -Or it is already quite old-fashioned indeed (the kind of Delirium tremens we had in Belgium in the seventies, with guitars for the Mass and other abominations); -Or this is a case more of british humor. (I hope so!) Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

There are no stoplists availaible on the Net for the projected new organs. But anyway, the "Magic" of an organ like Worcester's does not lie with itsstoplist, but rather: -In its incredible, "crazy" layout; -In the sensibility of the several voicers that interveined, which avoided ending up with a "hotch-potch with a little of all fashionable styles from theit respective epochs", but contributed to an instrument with a style of its own. And there lies the problem, or the chance, according to which hands the organ falls between. This is no "formated", "no-non-sense" organ. It needs a player who is ready to accept to adapt his/her playing style to it. The recordings from Donald Hunt's time blatantly demonstrate one can get absolutely all from this organ if one can ask it to do so in its own language. If I can get some in digitalized form, be sure I shall spread them worldwide. I know of several such little gems. For instance, a unique Bartolomaei-Blési (1897) rebuild of a Verschneider Organ near Metz (France). Bartolomaei was a pupil of Friedrich Goll (Luzern, Swiss). He ended in a middle-of-nowhere area, so that this organ was the biggest he had to express himself -26 stops!-. He made a miniature cathedral organ of it -up to a 10 2/3' quint!-. This organ was condemned. A guy even said "Put the fire in this waste bin". Eventually, the organ fell in the hands of a sensible, clever young organist. It will be restaured as it is (maybe I did help somewhat). http://olivier.schmitt.org.free.fr/site_web_moyeuvre Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

The Wesley recording that you refer to has an interesting photo of the choir in situ in the quire (if that makes sense) on the sleeve. (Citation) Yes, it must be this one. The rest of the front side of the sleeve is red. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I did not have any answer too... Well, if I could have the Saint-Saëns Mass on Media player files, I could place them on the french forum in order to get about 300 french-speaking organists with us in the "Save Worcester's organ" club. My LP is a bit tired, and I do not have any means to digitalize it. But whenever anybody hears it here....A fan more. Even better is the Samuel-Sebastian Wesley recording (same period, same conductor), an absolute gem. (Te Deum from the service in E major; Jubilate from the same; Anthem "Cast me not away"; Anthem "Let us lift up our heart"; Anthem "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace". Decca/Argo, ZRG 890,1978) Go figure: ten years later, the Worcester cathedral choir was in Brussels for one recital. I was there of course and asked when the next S-S Wesley's recording would be available; the answer was "Never, it did not sell". Go figure again: during 25 years I have been busy marketing worthless "on the counter" drugs. Here we deal with absolute top-class artistic "products" (I hate this word) for which there is not only no marketing at all, but even "contra-marketing"; "Don't buy that, it is bad and we shall delete it all". Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Far from it - my comment about insularity was not aimed at contributors to the MDB and I'm sorry if it gave that impression. One of the stimulating features of the site is a generally informed awareness of European developments, past and present, in the organ world. JS <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ....Among which the british isles! Maybe there obtains something like a "reversed insularity"; anyway, I'd accept to be called an insular if it might help. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

we have always been late starters. Whether it be the introduction of Pedal boards, or an awakening to the merits of mutations, and later on the neo-classical organ, the conservative British have always arrived late at the party. (Citation) Well, this is understatment -to say the least- It seems as far as swellboxes and above all voicing are concerned, Samuel Green was about 100 years ahead of the continent. On another thread (which remained without comments), I wondered how William Hill could be as early as Walcker in the developpment of the romantic organ: 1829! Now about the neo-classic organs, a delayed entry of this one on your shores may have been more of a chance than anything else. (Well I say that but in the meantime I advocate for the preservation of Victor Gonzalez work. But was he really a "neo-classic" builder?). The value of any organ has nothing to do with its size. The "classic revival" did teach us that. In exchange for its limited size and absence of pedal, the english organ offered these splendid Diapasons. Later, when the pedal stops arrived, the Diapasons had to be re-inforced "the german way". And so we have "Schulze Diapasons" etc...Backwards is sometimes ahead. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Mr Jones, The reasons for this: Name the last significant commission for a new organ in mainland Europe to go to a British firm of organ builders. I can't think of one (Citation) I gave in my post above. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

would be for a far-sighted English or Scottish town or city to decide to promote its organ heritage and get involved with an organisation such as ECHO - or is that too naive a hope? John Sayer <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe I could suggest some ideas here. I sometimes tend to think the english might have a slight tendancy to shoot in their own feet; how could a strong interest grow for the british organ and its repertoire if the english themselves want to throw their own traditions away to make room for others? And, despite that, there is interest on the continent for this british tradition (I mean the organs, the repertoire), but it could be far more developped. I'd be very interested with a little experience: we'd take 10 british organists, and then continental ones (no matter the country, but with an interest with the english tradition), and ask them to cite three organs in UK that might qualify for ECHO. I believe we would have completely different results; for instance, it's well possible Worcester would be cited by continentals only, while the english would prefer "à la manière de" (whatever french or german ancient buider) modern interpretations. When I visited british organs about 25 years ago, the subjects of pride were always "these french-like reeds", or german-like that. This may have evolved a bit but not *that* far, it seems. Of course we all need diversity in our "Orgellandschaft", that is, I'd like to have british, italian, spanish organs in Belgium. But the first step is, I believe, to secure the place of the flemish organ (Van Peteghem etc), the Liège organ (an unique french-german synthesis baroque organ), and our typical romantic organs. "Provincial" they are, of course, it's not Schnitger nor Silbermann nor Cavaillé-Coll, but they are not less interesting for that. Why would S.Green, England, Harris, Willis and A.Harrison be less interesting? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Thanks for this interesting link. By the way, the "Worcester debate", as boring as it may be (apologies), is by no way an "insular" one. We are some on the continent to worry about a big mistake I believe we would not make any more -at least in Belgium, but I know several scholars in France that would avoid it too-. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, why not consider: -A true 4 or 5 stops pipe organ -An harmonium? (This last is strongly coming back on the continent, a good thing! England did build excellent harmoniums as far as I know). Though of course limited, I'm convinced a five stops pipe organ allows actually much more than a zig-hundred "stops" electronic one. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Thanks for your comments, Mr Jones, I agree there is no need to talk about this one or this other one being this or that. May I ask some questions? -Should we keep silent? Sit down and watch the pipes break down on the floor, like they did with a splendid organ some years ago in Belgium? -After five pages here, do we have a hint about what the true problems are with Worcester cathedral's organ? -If an organ many people like must be scrapped, like it is "their beloved organ" that "must go", are we still dealing with art or with power? -Should we walk instead of talk? Where? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, It seems this "Three choir festival" has priority over anything else. As a stupid ignorant, may I ask what kind of music is played during this event? Buxtehude? Bruhns? De Grigny? César Franck? Pink Floyd? Of course I would not dare pretend a Wesley or a Howells could be included. For the 1907 Walcker organ we are busy to rescue here in Namur, we provincials have taken the matter from the other side. A festival we shall of course begin right after the restauration will be over. No matter our taste(s), it will be Liszt, Reger and Karg-Elert above anything else. Not too bad music, tough. Worcester's organ is not restricted to english music, tough. French and german choral works (Saint-Saëns, Liszt, Duruflé...) go very well too. The best interpretation of Saint-Saëns "Messe à quatre voix", with two organs (one of which already gone...) I know remains a LP I bought there in 1977 (Donald Hunt). Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.