Pierre Lauwers

Well, this is not really a chamber organ -it could then itself feel as a caged bull too-. Willis has been despised too -did not W.T. Best compare a Willis harmonic flute with a steam engine's whistle? Best wishes Pierre.

Ideally something like Ieper plus a Solo division...with somewhat multicultural orchestral voices. Something like in Clermont-Ferrand, whose "Positif" is more of a Solo than anything else: http://associationrosj.free.fr/Francais/gr...ueframe_fra.htm This organ is earlier than Ieper's (about 1904, while Ieper is 1931). It needs a restauration and a friend of mine is busy advocating an historic one: original disposition with the original tubular-pneumatic action -Ieper's action is still in excellent order since 1931-. And here is Bridlington's organ: http://www.bridlingtonpriory.co.uk/history/organ.shtml Here too an historic restauration could be advocated. I never heard it, but it seems to have been "overweighted" with voices that should not fit such a characterful style. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, Pcnd, 1)- Antwerp's Cathedral: Schyven was the manager of Merklin's workshop in Brussels. When Merklin went to France, he took over. So, like Merklin, Schyven belongs to the Walcker school not the ACC's. Of course french-speaking "upper class" people wanted french organs. So the Schyven organs speak a kind of pidgin french with strong german accents. Did you note the free reeds on the Positive division, including a "Voix angelique"? This was the german "Vox angelica" quite different from the Willis one (which is an Unda-Maris of the Salicional kind). So this organ is not as loud as an ACC, but more refined. 2)-Salvatoorkatedraal Brugge. In this somewhat (!) transformed case is a neo-classic Klais organ -of splendid value-. The Pommer is not a reed, but a Quintatön of somewhat larger scale than the normal type. 3)- Ypres/Ieper. Well, did'nt you note the link I gave on another thread to MP3s from this organ? This is one of my preffered organs in Belgium. Annessens worked in Belgium, France, the Netherlands and even England. He was one of the very few continental builders to have assimilated something of the british organ. His reeds are mid-way between the english and the belgian ones (Belgian chorus reeds= heavier version of the french ones). So I give this link again. It is a frame. First click above on "orgues", then on the right on: "Cathédrale St-Martin Ypres". You will get pictures, the disposition plus two very interesting MP3 with Elgar's music. http://users.skynet.be/sky25034/fr/index.html Best wishes, Pierre.

Well, let's summarize two points for wich we fully agree: 1)-H-J should not have destroyed the Hill organS (there were two...), there is not the slightest doubt about that. 2)-The present-day organ should be preserved, be it in Worcester or elsewhere. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Thanks, Pcnd, Of course what I find interesting with these reed stops isn't the power. This we have enough -by far- in some romantic and neo-classic organs in Belgium. And no, no continental organ builder ever tried to introduce such kind of tone, save some belgian builders like Anneessens. But even this builder was content with "in between" stops like the Tubasson (as it reads, somewhere wetween Tuba and Bassoon). I think of something like this: On Manual I: Contra Tromba 16' Tromba 8' Octave Tromba 4' Scharff (A mixture with Tierce) On Manual II French Basson 16' + Trompette and Clairon harmonique Progression harmonique (with tierce rank) On Manual III Solo reeds only On Manual IV Solo reeds+ enclosed Tuba of the H&H kind (Tromba-like) Pedal Trombone 16' etc (Less fiercely voiced than a french Bombarde). The aim is not to have cracks in the roof, but variety in tone. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Maybe the time when the "heretics" were burned is coming to an end -at least in organ matters-. I heard scholars talking for hours about the "mixed scalings" of the north german baroque organs. This should have accounted for their varying tone in different areas of the compass, which itself "explained" their sheer beautifulness etc. It was thus introduced in neo-baroque flemish organs.....Just to discover, some years later, that the ancient flemish organ did not feature anything like that. In the meantime Töpfer's formulae was of course condemned as an horrible standardization, a door widely open to the industrialization, the "Fabrikorgel". As far as I know, Töpfer's best pupil was someone(s) named Schulze;They built extremely bad organs, as anyone knows... The danger when dealing with cyphers is to believe one can grasp "the truth" simply comparing some of them, and then generalize. We human beings are lazy thinkers. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Of course, if what is wanted is extreme tone, better avoid to add something else to it. I suppose no two Trombas are the same, and this is something no loudspeaker understands -after all, a loudspeaker is not a pipe, just a piston-. The belgian late-romantic organ already had chorus reed stops that were a compromise between french, english and german stops, as one may ear on the link I gave. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I looked at the Pdf-file attached to the Portfolio page -very informative, and continentals-friendly with its metric values-. Noteworthy is the fact that some stops are slotted, while others are not. Of course this is the case in many organs -save the neo-baroque ones, at least here in Belgium-. Since about 1860 up to the middle of the sixties, all Diapasons (more correctly: equivalents to) were slotted in Belgium, while for instance the Flûtes harmoniques were not. And then the slotting method was given an anathema, and many slots were soldered -when the pipes were not cut to get something else-. When visiting british organs I soon noted the Diapasons are never slotted. According to the litterature I found in England twenty years ago (Sumner, Bonavia-Hunt etc), this would be one of the chief factors that explains for the Diapason's peculiar tone, compared with the Montre and the Prinzipal of the continent. But this may be somewhat simplified, because even un-slotted neo-baroque Montres aren't Diapasons either. Maybe it might be interesting to discuss about which stops at Barnstable are slotted, and which are not; why; is it more troublesome to have slotted and non-slotted stops blend together? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, So they do blend, at least somewhere...I shall make a bit research about Walker's Trumpets. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Thanks, Nfortin, With this I begin to get answers to my question. What kind of Trumpet does this organ have? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I of course agree we disagree: you are welcome! (Why to discuss otherwise? If we all agreed, we won't have any forum alive:)) I'll answer like this: 1)- A legitimate musical purpose, this is something very subject to change. W.T. Best, for instance, had other opinions as ours, and we have no reason to believe our opinion is "better" than his. 2)- A huge number of good organs from good builders have been destroyed. To the point neo-baroque "experts" destroyed genuine pipes from builders They believed they were reconstituing the very work; this is halas not a joke. 3)- Hill's organ, tough romantic, are still classic-grounded, with many Diapason choruses....Next to the very first high-pressure reeds. Splendid organs, very worthwile (how many were destroyed?). Late-romantic organs are very different, be them by H-J or Anneessens, for instance. If a church has an H-J, and do not want to use it, we can: -Build a second organ of whatever style is wanted, and leave the H-J alone up until it will be recognized as a treasure (like an investment for the future) At Mersch in Luxemburg They did that with a 1952 Haupt. A second, neo-baroque organ was built. Now Gerhard Walcker of Germany just restaured the Haupt, and a Pilgrinage of organists commenced, you'll have sooner or later to take a ticket and queue to play it. -If the space is at a premium, sell the H-J to people who want to have it. Chances are higher in France, Germany and U.S. than in Britain! Best regards, Pierre.

Quoted from: "The organs and music of Worcester cathedral", Vernon Butcher, 1981., about the H-J organ at Worcester: "....Mr Harrison said that as regards tone, the organ had some remarkable stops, and many beautiful tone qualities. Some of the Harrison voicers had learnt their art while working for Hope-Jones".... I have other quotes if wanted. Best Wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

From an historical point of view, liturgical use is not very relevant; in Belgium for instance, the liturgy of today has little in common with the 19th century's. The reference to written repertoire as paramount is an idea that dates from the neo-baroque period. The Hope-Jones organ was the basis of the theatre organ, another one that gains more fans everyday... Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Thanks Malcolm, And here we are to the point: I do not believe anyone is capable to tell what is "good" or "bad" in any tonal matter (of course, an ill-conceived action is something else!) before enough time has passed. With organs, this is well over 100 years. The whole history of the organ is a testimony for this. Each generation destroys the former's work, because it is "bad", has no value. But grand-grand-Daddy's was just fine. Now I know young organists (round 25 years old) who want romantic organs. That's very sympathic for an old "opponent" to the neo-baroque organ as I was 20 years ago, but......I tell them: "Very well, but please leave neo-baroque organs untouched". So "Intrisic merit" is something that exists, no doubt, but any judgment in this matter we should avoid with organs between 20 and 100 years. Experience shows that's the critical phase. It's between 20 and 100 years old that the massacres occurs. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I only heard some H-J voices in Worcester -more than twenty years ago-. Let's suppose H-J organs are really bad. We need at least to keep some, in order for our grand-grand children not to lose their time reconstituing them. It's for this reason we need to keep organs from every existing style. Fashion is a never-ending balance effct... Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

.......Why would'nt a H-J organ be worth preserving? The more so if we don't like it, I believe. I do not like neo-baroque organs, should I advocate their "correction"? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Yes, Malcolm, And they advocate this without apology, because as americans they feel free to mix the styles this way. I personnaly believe this kind of synthesis to be outdated. Before WWII, a young german organ-builder, Rudolf Von Beckerath, came to France to work with a former Cavaillé-Coll's voicer, Victor Gonzalèz. Together they created the french version of the "neo-classical" organ, which is a mix of Cavaillé-Coll and Schnitger's influences, plus some hints of baroque french organ added by consultants like Norbert Dufourcq. The results are sometimes excellent; a good example is Soisson's cathedral organ (1956). But when they succeeded as a musical instrument, these organs were nor an ACC, nor a Schnitger, nor a Clicquot, but something else. It was the organ for Messiaen, Dupré, Duruflé, Alain etc. I'd try something even different: to enlight a belgian late-romantic organ (to be heard with a link above) with english and german accents, but from the very same period. Such a trial should, of course, take place in a new construction, never in an existing organ -belgian late-romantic organs are rare gems- and could satisfy the wishes to play both Elgar, Reger and Widor if it succeeds (which it will never fully do). Even within such a restricted scope, the problems are many. There is the question of the chorus reeds, but the soundboards too are different: belgian and german late-romantic organs had ventil chests, while the english had slider-chests. Tonally this makes quite a difference. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Lefébure-Wely's work is coming out of the purgatoire in France today. his music is now frequently played in concert, and nobody laughs. Ten years ago this would have been totally unimaginable... Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers

I think we should accept that any charachterfull organ is limited in repertoire. Nobody today would still advocate to put a Swell on a Silbermann....Or a shrill Diapason chorus in a Cavaillé-Coll. If Crediton permits Elgar, Howells plus the 19th century english choral music like S-S Wesley's, it is largely enough to justify its existence. Should we find an intact Samuel Green's organ today, it would be welcomed as a kind of miracle, and nobody would dare modify a nail from it. But it would actually permit even less "repertoire" by far. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Well, No french organist would have the idea to play de Grigny at Crediton -there are enough excellent organs for that, far more than 1921 Harrisons-. But if you want to have an idea of what they think about Crediton, have a look here (in french): http://forum.aceboard.net/18898-3215-17612...21-restaure.htm So it seems there is potentially more interest for such a style on the continent than in UK. In french we say "Nul n'est prophète en son pays" (Nobody is seen as a prophet in his own country). So don't worry. The french who will go to Crediton (there are two yet planning just that) do not expect of it to beat Poitiers in Couperin. I do not even think they will take such music with. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Actually I'd mix reeds from the very same epoch, not "Baroque" with "romantic". Here is an example of belgian late romantic organ, an intact 1931 Anneessens: http://users.skynet.be/sky25034/fr/index.html It's a frame, so: -Click on "orgues" above -Then on the right "Saint-Martin Ypres". You'll find two MP3s (with...Elgar!!!) What do you think of this organ? Lausanne I do not know, but the french fellows on the french forum are very found of Crediton (I posted the same link). Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Fine! I found a page about Crediton: http://www.holycrosschoir.com/organ-spec.htm An historic restauration of a 1921 H&H, that's quite good news. And these Trombas....Cloying? Really? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Thanks Pcnd, So there is still a genuine Harrison's "Harmonics" mixture at Crediton. This is interesting! how does it do? As far as I understand Arthur Harrison's style, this stop could be an attempt to bind flue stops and Trombas togheter. Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

Here is a question that might seem funny: Has there yet been an organ possesing both closed toned chorus reeds (of the Tromba kind) and french - I mean quite free-toned- Trompettes? Noël Bonavia-Hunt describes three kind of chorus reeds: the closed-toned, the normal (he meant the Willis type) and the free-toned french one. He compared the first with the Flute, the second with the Open Diapason and the last one with the Gamba family. The three flue stops families blend perfectly together, how would do the three chorus reed types? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.

I fully agree, Michael. A parish church does not need a cathedral organ. What is lost in "grandeur" can be gained in delicacy and refinment. An experiment can be led at home; let a superb HI-FI chain be installed in a little room. That mighty 32' may well be perfectly heard....by the neighbourgs in their bigger living-room, and not at all by yourself. So what.....Have a 32' for the birds outside? Best wishes, Pierre Lauwers.