Peter Clark
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Posts posted by Peter Clark
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All the same, these things are probably unintentional; that is to say, God's local representative simply did not imagine that such an action or decision could have given you offence.
That, Paul, is because God's local representative has, on the whole received little or no training in either music itself or how to foster and maintain relations with church musicians. This often is reflected by the attitude of the congregation. In my own heresy of choice, Roman Catholicism, up till relatively recently what Father says must be right and more often than not the organist /DoM is wrong if his/her musical opinion or some action seems to contradict that of Father. A modest example from my back catalogue: a few years ago "Father" asked me to play at Communion on Advent 3 Wachet Auf - one of his favourite pieces it seemed. I played it, and it went on a little after communion had finished so the priest was waiting to say the post-communion prayer. I duly finished, and he said the prayer and there was an end to it. Later, a chorister no less upbraided me for keeping Father waiting and I shouldn't have done that. Ah but Father specifically asked for that piece, I said. Oh that's OK then said chorister. I asked her how it could be OK if Father says it but not if I say it since the result was the same.
Ordained members of this forum I know are the exception to this being musicians themselves; (incuidentally, this cuts both ways in my case since my degrees are in Theology - this does not always go down well!)
P
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This is a very funny series of books involving a church organist/police detective:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/philipg/detectives/konig.html
Some seem available on Amazon.
Peter
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Also (going back to this morning's Sunday Worship) it was nice to hear the Buxtehude D minor Passacaglia given an outing, a piece heard too rarely these days. I might slip it in sometime... though my copy (Peters edition) has consecutive 5ths. Is this correct?
Peter
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The anthem in today's broadcast was quite spine-tingling. I only heard it on a small transistor so can't comment on the quaility of the performance but I'd love to know what it is called. It seemed mainly unision with Ahhh descants every so often. Anybody know? Oh and I wasn't surprised to see John Rutter in there somewhere, considering Tuesday. It's the onlt time of the year I drink Guinness! (Hope that's not advertising.)
Peter
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Don't recall much organ music in Morse, though.
In the episode Day of the Devil one character, Canon Humphrey Appleton (Richard "Pie inthe Sky" Griffiths), seems to be an organist. Can't remember what he played though.
Peter
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This is, in my opinion, one of the very best contemporary hymns but it is not without its problems. When I learned a few days ago that I was having to play it at a funeral yesterday, I cautioned against it becuase I do not think it works as a congregational hymn. The only way to get the best out of it is to treat it like a responsorial psalm, with a solo canotor singing the verses and the congregation joining in the refrain. Yesterday's rendering of it was pretty disastrous. The priest belted it out through a microphone which was turned up far too loud. The congregation were all at sea. With the organ in the west gallery, and the priest at the front and the people in the middle it is an acoustical nightmare to begin with but when such a difficult piece as On Eagles' Wings on the menu there is little hope for any of us!
Have others had this or similar problems?
Peter
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I was the short one at the back, with a beard (long gone) standing between (I seem to remember) 2 tall singers - a bass and a tenor. I was singing tenor at the time (as an acting lay-clerk) but just for two terms. After that I sang alto as a supernumerary. (I had only just moved to Peterborough in 1982.)
It's a wonderful adaptation.
Stephen Barber
Srephen, having now sat through all 7 episodes (and the "bonus" track about Peterborough Cathedral) I agree that it is a superb production. The BBC really does these things well. What is the music during the closing credits of each episode, though? Another Bourgeois piece?
Peter
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I enjoyed much of today's (8th March) - the opening Slane was very arresting although I was not too keen on the treatment of Repton. Any other thoughts?
Peter
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Almost the exact same thing happened to us at Selby Abbey once: the semi-retired Curate was a bit of a music buff and would occasionally include a potted history of the anthem in his announcement of it, but clearly his edition of New Grove didn't go much past 1950 because he confidently informed the congregation that "Listen Sweet Dove" was set to music by the American composer Charles Ives ... and then gave a long spiel all about him!
As it happens, Charles Ives did write some church music: a setting of Psalm 90 for SATB, organ and percussion springs to mind. Quite interesting, albeit worlds apart from anything Grayston (or Bill) would do!
King's Cambridge recorded it many moons ago:
He also wrote a setting of part of Whittier's poem generally known to most church-goers as Dear Lord and Father, called Tranquillity,* and also composed General William Booth Enters Heaven - possibly not strictly liturgical music as such but still with a pronounced Christian theme and what a glorious piece it is!
Peter
edit:
* or was it Serenity? I used to have an LP of this and other stuff of his but I've never seen it on CD and I've lost the LP.
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The music was indeed composed by Derek Bourgeois. The choral music was sung by Peterborough Cathedral Choir, conducted by Christopher Gower. The organ of Peter Cathedral certainly featured, as accompanying instrument, played by Simon Lawford.
I was singing in the cathedral choir then and remember the filming fondly – including hearing “Slope's” sermon quite a few times, owing to passing planes etc. The music had some extremely high passages for the boys – often in thirds, I seem to remember, and the high pitch of the organ didn't make things any easier. In one scene Donald Pleasance is seen conducting the choir: his gestures were, to be polite, a little imprecise - needless to say, Christopher Gower was standing behind him out of camera shot.
Wonderful adaptation – now on DVD!
Stephen Barber
I bought the DVD yesterday - a bargain at £9.99 - and the opening scene is of the choir "conducted" by Donald Pleasance. So which one is you, Stephen? (The series was made in 1982....!)
Peter
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I read somewhere - perhaps on this board - of a general cancel thumb piston dupicated as a toe piston. This may not be the least musical playing aid but it may be the most redundant!
Peter
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Derek Bourgeois is credited as Conductor on IMDb, but there is no reference to a composer. His own website indicates he wrote a piece called 'A Barchester Choral Suite' which was published two years after the programme was first broadcast. The first broadcast was 1982.
Jonathan
I e-mailed Derek Bourgeois and his PA replied to me. The Barchester Choral Suite is still in manuscript and according to her has not been published - but Bourgeois made a small anthem out of the main theme tune for boys'/girls'/womens' voices called Come Holy Ghost and this is available as a download from Sibelius.
www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/show_score.pl?scoreid=1693
Peter
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These recommendations are all fine; however, the trouble with the music of 'the French folk' is that it's so expensive that you'll need to feel fully justified in having a splash-out on these works. Having downloaded an organ catalogue from UMP, I see that Dubois' 12 Pièces will set you back £45.99; Gigout's 10 Pièces, £39.99; and the two books comprising Vierne's 24 Pièces en style libre (ed. D.Sanger & J.Laukvik), £57.98. Langlais' 24 Pièces (in two books) seem the best value at £32.98. Those contemplating Mulet's Tu es Petra at £20.99 would be better off buying the complete book of ten Esquisses Byzantines costing £37.99.
Indeed, just why is French music so expensive? I can sort of understand it is pre-EU days but now....?
Peter
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When Mozart wrote out the Allegri Miserere which was a closely guarded Vatican-only piece, was this the first case of an llegal download?
P
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Dragging this back up, my music shop have told me that the Andriessen Thema met Variaties is now out of print! Has anyone bought one recently, and if so, from where? Any ideas of where I might track a copy down? Its not on Roger Molyneux's latest catalogue. Thanks in advance.
Local music shops are notorious for saying things are out of print when they're not - it's happened to me many times only to find what I.m looking for on line.
P
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I read in a book about the "Morse" programmes that the exterior shots of the church were filmed in Bray (presumbly near the studios) but it does not say whether the interior shots were of an actual church (wouldn't it be marvellous to have a church which did still look like that!!) or whether it was a studio "mock-up". It doesn't say which choir was singing. Perhaps it was one of the Oxford college choirs earning a bit of extra cash.
I think Morse was one of those people - rather like Inspector Barnaby of Midsommer Murders - who one should avoid. His very presence in an area seems to provoke multiple murders.
Malcolm
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The church in this episode seemed particularly OTT decor-wise, even for the highest of Anglo-Catholic buildings; but back to the music - I suppose there must be a way of finding out who played the organ, which choir was singing and so on. I am reminded of the Barchester series of about 12 years ago when the actor playing the choir conductor, Donald Plesance, waved hios arms about in a totally amateurish way while the real conductor was hidden from the cameras. And I don't kmow which choir that was, either!
Peter
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ah, well, maybe everybody's got a toaster these days?
. Don't recall much organ music in Morse, though.
I watched the episode Service for all the Dead last night; it is largerly set in a parish church where murders and suicides occur on a fairly rergular basis. It included nearly the whole of the JSB A minor prelude as well as a snatch of what I think was the Num Komm (the slow one) from the 18. At one point in the episode the church choir is singing Locus Iste (Bruckner) and you can clearly see the Peter's edition copies they ae singing from. Which choir though?
Peter
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Hello,
you will find it in the book "Eight Organ Voluntaries on Familiar Hymn Tunes" by Gordon Young. My standard dealer in Germany (http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de) has one in stock.
Cheers
tiratutti
Many thanks.
p
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Does anyubody know if this piece is still available? I can't see it in the "usual places" (Musicroom &c).
Thanks
Peter
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On snowy days and others when there is nothing better to do, list members are tempted to post a problem such as "Design an organ with m manuals, and n stops".
I can imagine that on another discussion board the problem might be posed, "Select a world cup football (Soccer) team from the players in any English clubs that you choose". It is a well-defined problem, even if every single respondent has a different selection. A problem such as "Select a team for the Olympics" is not well defined if we are not told whether we need a football team or one for water polo.
1) The first problem that occurs to me is that a dozen organ builders given the same paper specification, at least at the level of detail offered in the solutions on this board, might produce a dozen good organs none of which sounded like any of the others. How many open diapason 8' stops have you heard, and how varied are they?
2) The second is that in most, but not all of these problems, the intended purpose of the instrument is not stated. Is it to play Stanley, Couperin, Bach, Franck or Messaien? Is it intended to play everything from the Robertsbridge Codex to the piece that I might compose next week? Is it a recital instrument, or an accompanying machine?
If the conclusion is that the exercise makes sense taking into account (1), then should the conditions of (2) be imposed so that participants are playing the same game on the same pitch?
What is the budget here? I don't suppose you could get away with a decent instrument of the kind proposed for less than £500,000! (+ VAT)
Peter
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I enjoyed this morning's - the opening introit (tautology?) I did't recognise but it was lively. I enjoyed the story about the man and his horse. The service closed with one of my all-iume favourites which was nicely reharmonised for the last verse. Only two reservations: the descant to Gutting Power (a personal thing - I've never been stuck on it) and that rather eccentric amen at the end. Any more thoughts?
Peter
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I'm trying so hard not to put on my teacher's hat, but I'm sure you know that (say) Bach's use of the term organo pleno bears no relation to that of Reger.
Peter Williams in New Grove Online:
"It is unlikely that J. S. Bach had a specific combination in mind when he asked for organum plenum, whether in 1715 or 1745; however, a contemporary organ builder, Gottfried Silbermann, directed organists to use the manual coupler but no manual reeds or Tierces in the plenum (Fraureuth, 1739)."
Which is sort of what I said, I think.
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A frightening statement, goodness knows I'm no purist, but I cannot imagine wanting to use even a single 8' great chorus reed on the manuals for this piece, let alone, were they available, the 16' bombarde and the clarion.
I learnt this piece as one of the very first pieces where I changed teachers and began lessons on a (now defunct) cathedral organ which at that time had 6 pistons to each of great and swell. I remember carefully selecting stops for what, I hoped, would be an effective Bach registration, only to be told by my teacher (a former New College organ scholar, not averse to the less romantic instuments) that "on an english cathedral organ you just couple swell 5 to great 5", good advice, but note not "swell 6 to great 6".
I suppose I meant organo pleno ie an organ with "full resources". I agree that reeds (manual atl east) would damage the effect.
Peter
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The JSB "Giant" is always a winner - arresting and sounds good on full organ; in the same (Novello) book, the D major Alla Breve is similarly effective. Neither is over-taxing but should fulfil your wish for something that sounds more difficult than it is
! (I love such pieces!)Good luck!
Peter
Belmont Abbey, Hereford
in The Organ
Posted
A major resoration project is underway on Belmont Abbey's fine organ:
http://www.belmontabbey.org.uk/restoration...restoration.htm
http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=A00515
I have played the instrment many times and indeed was a friend of the late Abbot Alan Rees, a gifted organist and composer who died in tragic circumstances a few years ago.
Peter