Peter Clark
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Posts posted by Peter Clark
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I remember my organ teacher recounting a recital in which the (then eminent cathedral) organist ended BWV 565 in D major... it shocked and delighted the audience but, my word, THAT wouldn't bear repeated listening, would it ?
H
But given that tierce de picard endings to minor key works were more or less at the player's discretion in Bach's time, could it not be argued that this then eminent cathedral organist was merely acknowledging an established custom (even if it were one that had largely fallen into disuse)?
Peter
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Can anyone enlighten me on exactly what a 'Waldhorn' is? I can see why an oboe might not be adequate in his first, but haven't a clue why a Waldhorn might be better - louder? softer? gruffer?
I thought he played David Horton in The Vicar of Dibly
(Sorry Patrick!)
Peter
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By pure coincidence in my "gap year" I had a job workng in Cluttons' HQ in London, just around the corner from Westminster Abbey. They administered property on behalf of the Church Commissioners and the Crown, and were also architects. I knew that the firm designed at least one church. Actually Cluttons were a good firm to work for, although I think a bit Victorian in their ethos. And in case you wanted to know, I earned £37.00 per week + luncheon vouchers!
Peter
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It's in volume 2 which also has the BACH and a variety of lesser pieces. Indeed, 'Ad nos' takes up 50 of the 107 pages.
I've seen several versions and own other editions; I've briefly flirted with the Margittay edition (for example) but I always return to the Peters/Straube. I wouldn't look any further if I were you. Want to see a copy? I could bring it on Monday!
Yes please but please don't expect me to sight read it!!!
Peter
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But how does one account for such a difference in price? £6.00 is a lot cheaper than £20.00. Is the Schirmer possibly a little too idiosyncratically edited, or not edited enough?
"My names Peter, I'm an Ad Nos addict and I haven't eve bought the thing yet...."
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[pedant]
You wouldn't. Verbs are conjugated!
It's a mistake a lot of us make. When my Latin mistress at school asked me to conjugate I declined.
[/pedant]
Yes Vox, I should know that, I did NT Greek at university!
P
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Thanks all for the replies so far. The only new edition I can find is the one published by Schirmer - but it is remarkably cheap (I was thinking of £20.00 or so!):
http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/047582/details.html
Universal and Peters don't seem to have it in their catalogues unless it is included in the Peters Vols 1 or 2 of the complete organ works but their website does not give the contents.
Justadad, the download version you alerted me to - this is organ or pedal piano with an optional estra pair of hands, is it not. I believe this is how Liszt was (reluctantly) persuaded to publish it (for financial reasons I think) but that he later withdrew it in favour of an organ alone edition. Many thanks, it wll be useful for following the CD but it is a somewhat "busy" score which I don't fancy playing from!
Yes MAB, my intention would be to learn it chunk by chunk - perhaps we should learn the same chunks whch we could MP3 each other (is there such a verb as "to MP3" and how wold one decline it?) to offer advice
.More comments please!!
Peter
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What is the best - and cheapest (!) - edition of this piece. Of those who play it, how long would it take to learn. Is it one of those pieces which is less disficult than it sounds? I can just about get though the BACH....
Peter
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A lady once asked me, prior to an evening service, "are you going to dress like an organist tonight?" I replied, "No, but I hope I'm going to sound like one."
Peter
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Or perhaps we should be looking at investing time and money in gaining cathedral choristers, many of whom appear to take an interest in the Organ during their choristership. This would have the advantages of
a) giving us more potential organists,
organists who have full liturgical and musical knowledge and finally
c) more cathedral choristers, reversing the trend of declining knowledge (and sadly, standards) in recent years
That is all very well, David, but I work in an inner city parish and my aim is to re-itroduce to the "ordinary" type of congregation - which includes those children who go to the local school and come to this church - the wonders of the organ and the music that goes with it. And if you get the children interested, the parents might follow....
It is possibly because, for many people, the sort of music I am talking about - and indeed the organ itself - is only associated with a kind of elite which the average parish perhaps feels it cannot aspire to. that we have the situation that obtains in many - too many -of today's churches
Electronic hymn boards
Psalm, ours came from Germany, that's all I can tell you right now. The PP and the patrish secretary are both away at the moment and the assistant priest I spoke to yesterday knew nothing about there the paper work might be, but I'll ask around agin!
Peter
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I wear hood and gown for funerals and weddings as it seems people like to see the organist "dressed up" - it is also - especially in the case of funerals, possibly a mark of respect. Other times I wear hood and gown are Midnight Mass and the Easter Vigil - once again because people seem to expect it. Other times it's what I first lay my hands on that day!
Peter
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Artemis 81.
There was a lot of footage of Liverpool Cathedral. I remember a lot of close up shots of an organ console being played, but I don't remember it being a 5 decker.
The well known "popular" musician Gordon Sumner was in the film.
The show is available on DVD
A quick google came up with this http://www.davidrudkin.com/html/tv/artemis.html apparently it was Southwell - but no mention of the organist
Rudkrin's website gives the following: "Organ Passacaglia by Gordon Crosse"
Does this help?
Peter
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I had a wedding rehearsal with a parishioner to-day...... not my own wedding....let's not be silly....you know what I mean.
Anyway, she is a teacher, and she brought lots of children from school, because they are going to sing on the big day.
For the first time in 16 years, I took a choir-practice, got them to breath properly, lift up their copies and give the music a whirl.
It was absolutely enchanting to watch 20 quite young children, (boys and girls between the ages of 7 and 10)
just gape with delight and disbelief as their little voices bloomed in our simply wonderful church acoustic....they were so clear and so in tune.
They were absolutely delighted by the experience, and a two or three wanted to know all about the organ, and how much it would cost new (well they are from Yorkshire!) and one little girl talked to me for ages about the fact that she was learning to play acoustic-guitar properly.
It made me realise, with all the terrible learning difficulties I had at school, just what music meant to me, because it was about the only thing I could do well; apart from English and Art.
It made me realise what a stupid thing it was to get rid of school-choirs and curtail music generally, and appreciate the importance of funding the re-introduction of it.
MM
Bravo, MM - this is quite the sort of thing I had in mind - but with many of today's teachers imagining that music began with the Beatles (nothing wrong with the Beatles by the way - I'm a fan) what chance do children have when it comes to "classical"? How can we encourage the children if we can't even get it across to the "grown-ups"? Part of the reason I'm planning this whioe "fun day at the organ" is because NOTHING is ever done like this in the school. And when the school comes to the church for Mass they merely import their own instruments (a couple of electric guitars and a drumkit to supplement the digital keyboard) and their own often dire music. The school thus misses a chance to introduce its pupils to an instrument which, with its music, has inspired Christian (and other) worship through the centuries.
Rant over!
Peter
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Following on from the "Lytham" thread which included a very interesting discussion about the "attractiveness" of electronics vs pipes, it was suggested that given the right conditions and I suspect adequate preparation, it might be possible to introduce to younger people the pipe organ not so much as the public often perceive it, a dusty and noisy instrument confined to the darker corners of a damp church with a congregation of three, but as something that can be fun and in which everybody, young or not so young, player and non-player, can have a stake or at least take an interest.
What I want is some ideas or your own experiences of devising ways of getting children involved, and stories of the outcomes. Some ideas have already been suggested in the Lytham thread - getting children to turn the pages, giving them an organ pipe to take home (from a redundant organ, we assume
); I mentioned that the local Brownie pack came one evenng and wre all permitted to get a feel of the instrument which they enjoyed immensely. I have once or twice allowed children to operate stops and we have an electronic hymn board which they have once or twice operated. One idea I have is to organise a "fun day" - and I would likesome ideas i addition to the above. I thought of taking aphoto of the organ, and scanning it making it a line drawing for a colouring session- but no prizes, just the satisfaction of doing the work and then displaying it at the back of the church. Jane thought of giving them each a piece of manuscript paper and getting them to put some notes (! ) on the paper which I woud then attempt to make sense of. Anyone who plays, say, the recorder or violin or guitar could bring these along and we could try some duets. I might play some recognisable music - say the Harry Potter theme or Thunderbirds so they can see that the possibilities of even the church organ extend way beyond hymns and suchOver to you!
Peter
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""give me a child at the age of seven....."
(Quote)
Well......And ?
Pierre
s/he is mine for life
Peter
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Yes, they love the organ. David Wells showed me a nice trick. When I was giving the opening recital on a rebuilt instrument I asked different children to turn pages for each piece. (Two per item, so they nearly all got a go.) David brought a box of small organ pipes with him and the children all had a souvenir to take home. It made the occasion a family event and the youngsters felt that they owned the organ as part of their heritage. You cannot do that with a synthetic instrument.
Barry Williams
PS I shall quote the apposite legal/theological terminology from His Grace at DAC meetings!
Agreed Barry. My partner Jane is the Brown Owl in this parish and one night she brought along about twenty of her brownies who were all allowed (under supervision of course) to have a "feel" of the instrument and since it was two of the brownies' birthdays I played "Happy Birthday" - on the pedal trombone! - which they all sang lustily (if not entirely accurately). Another "organ evening" is planned and I am looking at the idea of a "fun organ day" for the many children in the parish. As the Jesuits are reputed to say, "give me a child at the age of seven....."
Peter
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Whilst in Blackpool recently (see my posting on Sacred Heart), I failed, because I completely forgot about it, to make an appointment to see the new Copeman Hart in the chutrch of St Cuthbert in Lytham, which I had read about in CMQ a couple of years back:
http://www.lythamorgansociety.co.uk/history.htm
(BTW notice the awful apostrophe!)
Has anybody seen/heard/played it? As I go to Blackpool at least once a year to see my sister and do the avuncular thing, would it then be worth having a look at this instrument? How indeed do people feel about such an instrument?
I'd be very interested in views.
Peter
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Then there was that famous spat from one composer referring to another, who described him as "An artless bastard"
Tchaikovsky on Brahms, or was it the other way round? And I always understood it to be "giftless" rather than "artless".
Peter
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This church, a very impressive building, is a sea shell's throw from the north pier and stands in the shadow of Blackpool Tower. I recently played the organ and although it still needs an enormous amount of work I would imagine it could be an impressive instrument. Apparently it suffered water damage becuae of a leaky roof about two years ago and had some remedial work done, but just enough, it seems, to enable it to accompany hymns and very simple Mass settings.
Here is the spec:
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N10639
There was an article in the Tablet magazine a couple of weeks ago about the parish of The Sacred Heart, and it said that the organ was originally a theatre organ which an enterprising priest bought for peanuts when the theatre closed.It has obviously undergone some serious revoicing! Has anybody played it before the waterv damage occured, and if so what impression did you have?
By the way, the opening recital was given by a certain Reginald Dixon. No, not the RD of Tower fame but the organist of Lancaster RC Cahedral. Apparently there were a lot of disappointed punters in the church that night who turned up expecting to haer Tiger Rag and so on!
Peter
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....abd here's something interesting from the other way round as it were:
http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/show_...l?scoreid=57671
Peter
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Following this thread I decided to order the Delvallée complete set from Amazon, which arrived today- a quick audition whilst importing to iTunes suggests they will make for good listening. The CD booklet sheds some light on the liturgical significance of each movement- not your typical organ mass with a grand entrée and stirring sortie, by any means...
Is any one familiar with the paintings by Tom Walker inspired by this cycle?
The artist Mark Rowan-Hull has done similar work with the music of Messiaen, as can be seen on the CD covers for Gillian Weir's recordings of the complete works:
http://gillianweir.com/cds/messiaen-new.shtml
The last release features Messiaen's Monodie - does anybody actually play this? Have you played it in public? Gillian Weir confessed to me that she was somewhat embarrassed about including it is a recital series featuring the complete organ works. The score gives the duration of something like 8 minutes but she gets through it in about 4!
Peter
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Jenny you might try contacting David Liddle who has made a speciality of Hollins:
dliddle@waitrose.com
Best I can come up with!
Peter
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My pedalboard is 'standard' Well, whatever that means! It certainly isn't half size and transferring from it at home to the church I give regular recitals at, and to the Church I'm DoM at doesn't give me any grief at all...
I'm not quite sure what "half size" means here... can someone elucidate?
Peter
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Not exactly an organ, but one of the "pieces" that accompany the programme listings on Sky TV sounds to me to have a (?)synthesized vocal ostinato that sounds like the word "Kyrie" repeated five times going up a minor scale from the tonic. Am I right? Was this specially composed or is it part of a pop "Mass" ?
It sounds very Karl Jenkins to me....
Peter
organists who have full liturgical and musical knowledge 
Music At Funerals
in General discussion
Posted
I have had a bit to say about wedding music in the past, and now, prompted by an article in this week's Tablet, as well as my increasing sense of frustration, I turn my attention, and yours, to funeral music.
Just who was it that decided that the majority of coffins shall be brought into vchurch to one of three hymns: I Watch the Sunrise which seems to me to be lacking in everything but the most mawkish of sentiments and hardly constitues a Christian hymn at all; The Old Rugged Cross; and Oh Lord my God, both with their outmoded expiation theology? I certainly can't imagine any organist jumping up and down at the thought of playing any of these three regularly, nor do I believe that many clergy would sanction these above some of the other hymns clearly more suitable, eg The Day Thou Gavest, even Abide with Me. Is it anything to do with the fact that many funeral directors produce the service sheets and have a certain selection of hymns on disc ready to print off? Are people other than the organist/clergy giving musical advice? As an organist, other than when I was personally involved with the deceased's family this has happened 4 times in my 17 years at this church), I have never been consulted as to the choice of music. Given that there is usually a week or so between death and the funeral, this should be sufficient time for me to excercise this geneally neglected pastoral aspect of my work in the church. After all, I select the music for the weekly sung Mass (hymns, setings, motet, voluntary), having been judged sufficiently competent and liturgically sensitive to do so, as well as act as a consultant to the majority of wedding couples.
I cannot believe that it was the dying wish of those we bury that these hymns (oh, and don't forget Light up the Fire!) were the ones they chose to be seen off into the blue yonder; nor can I believe that they are in the majority of cases the wish of the family, partly because about 70% of those we hold funerals for are not, as it were, "gospel greedy" nor the families. This is not a judgement on them; there is one whose authority to do so exceeds my own infinitely. It is merely to remark on the facts.
Have you any toughts on this? Am I being harsh/censorious/snooty? Or is it too much to hope that it might be recognised that the organist, with her or his experience and training, might know just what works in church on what occasion?
Peter