Barry Jordan
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Posts posted by Barry Jordan
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Dear Board members
not strictly, actually not at all, an organ topic, but perhaps someone can help me, and therefor a mate of mine living in the desert wilds of Saudi Arabia. I am / he is / we are looking for a tune (possibly by Widor?) known as "Sawston", sung, apparently mostly by catholics, to "Faith of our fathers".
If anyone can help us out by an online reference or by mailing me a scan of this tune at mail@barryjordan.de we'd be ever so grateful.
Thanks
Barry
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We will all run across this at some time or other! We have recently taken on a pipe maker who is Japanese but was working for Paul Fritts in the US: first, American Immigration refused to allow him to stay there and so he came to us and we have to pay the UK Government £300 for the privilege of asking for a certificate of Sponsorship and then, after we find the person we wish to sponsor, we have to pay again actually to sponsor - it's the usual UK rip-off I'm afraid. Oh yes, and it's renewable, it doesn't just run on , so there are repeat fees!
But looking at this a little more objectively - surely, Mr. Laube's situation is no different at all from that of any UK/EU Organist or other musician of any note wishing to do a 'recital tour' or otherwise working in the US where one has to have a visa to work, and it's been like that for years. Even individual members of visiting Choirs have to apply and pay for a P1 visa.
Free country(ies)? Not on your life!
DW
UK organists can play here without problems. As can Americans, in fact. And I wouldn't have had a problem in the UK if I were not still blessed with a South African passport. But I've been going in and out of England several times a year for over 20 years, so it took me unawares! (Plus the fact that the company which administers the visas on behalf of the Embassy charged me € 83 for the visa I didn't get!)
Cheers
B
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In the circumstances I am sure Nathan will not mind me reproducing his e-mail here.
"Dear Barry,
"Thanks for your note and concern. I was so disappointed indeed not to be able to be at Truro this weekend, and other concerts as well in London, Exeter, and Torringon. I was denied access because of a new Immigration law of which I (and my colleagues) were unaware, requiring me to have a specific "Certificate of Sponsorship" in order to play my recital tour. As I did not possess that, and so I was sent back to the US, and spent the week at the British Consulate General in Chicago working with representatives to figure out an alternative. We were able to do so, and I am happy to report that I will be in England on Monday morning to perform the last four recitals of my tour!
"I'm sorry that I was unable to be with you at Truro, and I am most indebted to Jane Parker Smith for gallantly stepping up to play several of those missed recitals! What an adventure indeed!!
"All very best wishes to you, and thank you again for your note.
"Nathan"
For the same reason I have had to cancel my recital at Worcester on the 5th of September - very reluctantly.
B
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Paul, almost "traditional" in central Germany. For example, Ladegast Merseburger Dom, 1855.
Cheers
B
Sorry I had to miss you.
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Is there any evidence that the device was used make the HW a coupling manual for the other divisions?
I don't think there is any evidence. But it is possible, of course; except that even one manual organs have these things. In German the term "Ventil" refers to exactly what the Dutch call the "Afsluiter" - as well as, confusingly, a few other things as well. Some instruments, for example, have a "Bassventil" - this is the HW / Ped coupler. And pallets are also called "Ventile".
At least one theory is that the ventils were there to shut off any division that might have a cipher. Not really very convincing, as it would be just as efficacious to push in all the stops! Possible that the generally rather leaky chests of old organs might have made it desirable to let the wind which the calcants had been getting up with the sweat of their collective brows into these at the last possible moment.
B
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John Irving, "Until I find you". Quite embarrassing in places. But lots of organs in it.
B
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St, Eustache, Paris.
I really was wondering when someone would get around to this one.
One could add almost anything by Rieger, especially when voiced by Mr. Pohl. Vierzehnheiligen......Nürnberg is quite a good place to hear it from. Its much too loud in the pub.
B
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People are dying to hear us play.
An undertaker to whom I complained about not receiving the fee said, "We always let you down in the end."
But then, he did work for a well-known South African firm called "Human and Pitt".
What was that about the coats?
B
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Just call it Fred.
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Have encountered clamps made from MDF, but I don't suppose anyone has been silly enough to (try to) build a soundboard out of it.
On the other hand I can think of a material used which was thoroughly non-inert, or should that be "ert". Would be interested to know how many chipboard soundboards are still going strong.
AJS
Rieger generally use plywood. There are some things to be said for it, especially where there are likely to be problems caused by heating. It's not very aesthetically pleasing though. The 1970 Schuke here in the cathedral has partly chipboard chests. They seem indestructible.
B
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The problem is of course partly that modern instruments are more sensitive than their predecessors were.The Victorian trackers go on forever because they were made to be safe, not light, in their actions.
A lot of instruments of this vintage , here at any rate, are actually really clapped out, their rollers despearately need new bushings etc, but because their overlarge pallets have really strong pallet springs, they soldier on - as long as you don't really need to play much more than a hymn on them.
The simplest cars can be kept on the road forever. Your BMW won't start if the ashtray is dirty.
B -
Not forgetting the organ world way downunder, Martin Setchell will be playing in Brisbane City Hall on Wednesday, Feb 4th at 12.30pm (Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition" is included) ; he will also play at Hobart Town Hall on Sunday 8th at 4.30pm; and on Thursday Feb 12th at 1pm at Collins St Baptist church, Melbourne. I'll be tottering behind carrying bags, cameras, iced water and listening out for anecdotes
Churchmouse
Perhaps I may be permitted to point all and sundry, as I do once a year, to our schedule here:
http://www.magdeburgerdommusik.de/html/konzerte_2009.HTM
including not only Martin Setchell but also Jonathan Lilley, Ann Elise Smoot and UK-escapee Iain Quinn. Cynic will be doing the honours across the road at St Sebastians Cathedral, although I am afraid that I don't know the date off the top off my head (as hannibal Lecter reputedly said).
Cheers
B
Um, and may I humbly point out to those who might not read C&Owith all the painstaking attention that it undoubtedly deserves that I will be playing the new Slapp-and-Tickell in Worcester Cathedral on September 5th, and that I would of course be delighted to meet all those names?
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Does anyone know whether Syncordia are still in business? Can't find them on the web. This, however, looks similar:
http://www.novelorg.com/site/pages/accueil_en.html
Such magnets are extremely expensive, I understand.
IFB
I had heard that they were out of business. Rieger used the Syncordia system in one organ and ripped it out again as it never worked, and if I am not going completely mad somebody from Fisk told me that they'd done the same.
B
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I'm sure we've had this discussion before: actually theirs is a version of ours (Patented 1884)!
There are several other uses to which the Floating Lever was put, including as a means of operating the steering gear on ships. We are now also looking at this as an alternative method of operating expression shutters.
DW
Interestingly, the Kowalyshyn machine was developed from a Skinner idea: a machine for working swell shutters. Steve Kowalyshyn did not know of the floating lever when he designed his little device.
B
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Oh yes -- concerning Freiburg: I forgot about the new Tuba. It came from the shop of, and afaik will be voiced by, our kind host. I'm quite keen to hear it.
Best,
Friedrich
Which seems to imply that it hasnn't been voiced yet? Michael Blighton voiced ours in the shop, and it has been hailed by all and sundry as a spectacular success -even by John Scott, who thought the idea of a tuba in a Metzler "a bit of an oxymoron".
B
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I would certainly never imply that a good organ needs 2 manuals....
There was not only a second rank of builders, there was a 3rd and 4th and 5th as well. I am certainly aware of the dangers inherent in destroying organs of the more recent past, and mostly deflect any attempt to do this. But, to give one example, I recently inspected an instrument by the local builder Beyer, ca. 1860. It was playable for barely 20 years before the parish gave up all attempts to keep it working. The pipework is dreadful, the technical construction amateurish at best. The parish now wonders if they could perhaps "restore" it. I have advised against it, strongly, and I hope the reasons are obvious. It would cost them a lot of money, and bring them no joy.
Apropos St Sulpice - I think it is stretching things a little to promote the idea that this was the "same tradition" further down the line..... as regards St Jakobi the point is granted, but the question then becomes, should we not have left it as Kemper did? And if not, why not? If the answer to that basically is, because Schnitger was Schnitger and Kemper Kemper, then I would maintain that exactly the sort of subjectivism that is being pilloried is in play. Quite apart from the fact that the "reconstruction" of the historical condition of the organ in itself is often a "creative" matter; based on experience and study, perhaps, but still a guess. Nobody knows for sure. St Jakobi and perhaps even more Norden are certainly amongst the organs I really love, but the fact that they may well reflect Jürgen Ahrend's ideas as much as Schnitgers should not be ignored.
My point is certainly not that any opinion is valid. It is however that an informed opinion may well say, "Away with it". And I also do not believe that it is moral to force the owner of any artefact or object to live with it if he doesn't want it or if it does not meet his needs; you could perhaps forbid him to scrap it.
Incidentally though: a lot of the DDR-organs are a lot better than BRD organs of the same period. The real abilities of Hans-Joachim Schuke have long been unjustly eclipsed by those of his more famous brother, while the Jehmlich instruments of the 50s are delicious in their gentle way, even if they opened a blind alley into which Eule later rushed.
Cheers
b
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"I believe it is better to have unplayable organs than "bettered" ones,"
And I agree wholeheartedly.
Barry Jordan wrote
"I believe that it is irresponsible to try to judge all instruments by the same criteria."
and I agree with this as well in as much as we can distinguish objectively between organs which have a high technical quality and those which don't. The question of losing instruments as a result of subjective judgements based on perceived artistic merit is another matter altogether. Here, Pierre's comments are, in my opinion, absolutely correct.
Pierre's opinion ignores totally, in my view, that organs are by and large artefacts that are intended to serve a particular purpose. This is, generally, to be played in worship, mostly but not always christian. If they do not adequately serve this purpose, no-one schould be forced to repair them, keep them in shape, or even to give them house-room. A church or concert hall is not a museum. Conservationist approaches are of course to be welcomed, but if they are to be any more than byaying at the moon they must offer some way out of this fundamental dilemma. For example: you agree to fix up the "historic" organ, and we'll give you another one that serves your purposes. These approaches have of course one fundamental problem - they cost money.
I am annoyed by the view that it sn't really to possible to distinguish between a good and a bad orgen in the same style, which lies behind most extremely conservationist approaches (alternatively: even bad instruments must be preserved as a sort of dire warning, which seems prima facie absurd). Of course it's possible, because there is a set of sonic parameters, even if they are difficult to define, which are quite apparent to anyone sympathetic to the general style of instrument.
Let's face it: not all organs are art. There are hundreds of hymn machines all over the world, and who cares whether they are rebuilt, revoiced, altered or scrapped? When is an organ so venerable that it's holy? After 10 years, or 20, or 100? And NEVER forget: if organ builders had always left the past untouched, we'd never have had St Sulpice, or St Ludgeri Norden, or Jakobi Hamburg, or hundreds of others.
All attempts at an all-encompassing approach to this issue of what to do with unsatisfactory or messed-around-with or even "dead" instruments are doomes to failure. There is simply no ONE answer.
Cheers
B
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I believe that it is irresponsible to try to judge all instruments by the same criteria.
Here too we have an enormous number of unplayable instruments from all periods from the 17th century (most, but not all, altered) up to the early fifties. A large number could benefit from a sympathetic restoration, some should just be cleaned and repaired - and some are plainly just junk. Every effort at restoration would cost a lot of money and bring no benefits, especially for a cash-strapped parish who would like, understandably, to see its money well invested.
I actually like neo-baroque instruments, but I consider myself able to distinguish between good ones, middling-but-passable ones, and the ones that are no good at all. And I wouldn't hesitate to get those chucked.
Now that's a confession...but we have dozens of organs by Troch, Böttcher, who knows whom, 100 years old and NEVER worked properly... wouldn't hesitate to get those done over properly either.
B
PS I also worked like a tiger to get the Compenius-Hartmann organ in Niederndodeleben restored. Because it seemed to be, in core, glorious. And it is. I also fought for the 1876 Rühlmann across the street from my apartment.
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This is an hard work which leaves no place for emotions, tastes and other "judgments"!
Pierre
Yes it does - because one question that is still open is: "Is it actually any good?"
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"somebody has to make a value judgement"
(Quote)
Who ?
(Would I permit myself to do so, there would obtain some slight problems in many places.
But I suppose there are "better" human beings, Confer Nietzsche)
Pierre
That is exactly the point. But somebody has to do it. It is strange that some decisions are simply taken for granted; here on the continent it is almost always safe to say, "Hey! Let's restore the organ to its original condition!" (even if there's hardly anything left of it, and what there is has been changed beyond recognition, and if the reasons for which it was altered in the first place are perfectly plain). Noncontroversial. But saying; let's chuck it out and start again, or, let's electrify the action, or even, let's just leave it the way it is, these require more courage, maybe more insight, and certainly more willingness to go out on a limb.
It's horses for courses. We know all about your fondness for the Worcester organ, and we can understand it, and maybe go along with it a certain way. But lots of other people thought it was dreadful, and those people have had their way. Perhaps they were wrong, but perhaps not. Who's to say? And anyway - the deed is done.
B
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Perhaps I am being naive but, surely, we are all here to support and help each other? Organ recitals are notoriously badly attended (with a few exceptions by famous concert artists)
I am pleased to report that Cynic had a good 400 people here yesterday.
B
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Where were you sitting. We took Adrian's advice and sat at the top of the raked seating. What an experience!
Jonathan
How good to read this. Do you think we could stop arguing now?
The whole Worcester discussion boils down to a very simple matter:
- when it comes to a discussion about the replacement of an organ, somebody has to make a value judgement. And somebody else is going to think he is wrong.
But if nobody ever took the risk, there'd never be any new organs.
Congratulations to our twinned cathedral!
Barry
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The plans for Speyer cathedral were discussed at length, and sometimes heatedly, on the German Orgelforum. In short, the case design, offered by a well-known German architect, did not earn the most splendid of grades by most contributors.
The stoplist was discussed mostly as the multiplication of principal ranks is concerned. If you look at what Barry got earlier this summer at Magdeburg, you will see that Speyer is not far from the approach chosen there, if the stoplist hints at a more French accent. But if I'm not mistaken there is goint to be another Tuba from London at Speyer.
Yes, there definitely is such a thing as a German Tubamania. I, for one, don't get the point, but some others cheer their heads off.
I like that.
Best,
Friedrich
Perhaps it is not entirely coincidental that Andreas Saager of Seifert und Christoph Keggenhoff of Speyer cathedral have visited here twice. But I don't really think that Seifert will adopt the basically very central German sound of Schukes new organ here; their own tradition is a very different one.
As to the tuba: I wanted one, because I know no other German organs AT ALL (including those from Bonn that have stop names saying "Tuba") on which it is really possible to play those big English pieces which need one. And I happen to like a lot of that music! And it is the perfect voice to comand the congregational singing in a big, full building. I can't imagine that the one in Speyer is to be anything like that, however: first of all, it is on the Great, where it would certainly not belong if a solo stop, and secondly, it is at 16' pitch. C-C and Sauer made stops called "tuba" too. I assume that the solo reeds at Speyer will be horizontal.
I like my "Serafonflöte", but it doesn't sound as hooty as some. I can't abide HP strings, though.
JPM revealed that there will indeed be another tuba from London going to Germany: to Friedrich's home town, in the new Metzler organ in the Münster. As a well-known British organist said to me a couple of weeks ago: "A tube in a Metzler? A bit of an oxymoron, isn't it??"
Cheers
B
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Can I take a moment to recommend the cpo recordings of the Nowowiejski symphonies and concertos played by the late Jerzy Erdman. He also prepared a scholarly edition of the music I believe, (I know Erdman's daughter very well, she introduced me to the recordings and the music). The organ is a Klais from around 1910, proper German late Romantic and far more interesting than the organs they build now. The aesthetic works very well for N's music, I think there's more than a hint of Wagner (ironically?) in the harmonic language, and while it does ramble a bit, there are some astonishing moments. The Erdman recordings are very special; committed, virtuosic and, apparently all but unedited.
Nice that Barry Jordan chose to record this music on his new instrument.
Greetings
Bazuin
Well, this IS the Chopin Academy edition. But it is riddled with typos. There is often no solution except to guess.
B
B
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in General discussion
Posted
Thanks so much.....
I see where the Widor confusion comes from:
http://s-clements.org/ServiceSheets/04SClements.pdf
and take a gander at page 5!
Confusing, innit?
Cheers
B