heva
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Posts posted by heva
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Rant Alert!
The ones that 'get me' are the ones who pontificate from afar. I heard a wonderful classic example only a week or so ago. I'd better tell the tale in vague terms, but it goes like this:
Famous organ adviser (brilliant writer) parts company with builders and church officials on the subject of swell-pedals. Because the basic organ originated in the late 19th century, even though it was going to get a brand new case and brand new console (complete with the usual modern playing aids) said adviser insisted that it have two ratchet swell pedals rather than balanced ones.
The fabulous moment comes when the church finds an old engraving of the original organ in its original home clearly showing above the centre of the pedalboard...two balanced swell pedals! Naturally, they show this to him, (not surprisingly) expecting this to be some sort of clincher. This was emphatically Not Good Enough...the adviser still knew best!
I'm seriously cynical about the sort of high-up advisers who hold the purse strings on behalf of grant-aiding bodies. The sort of adviser who makes it a condition of a huge grant that an organ should have a mechanical action console, hand-blowing, foot-blowing, un-standard pitch, tracker one-stop pedal organ etc. etc. when this is not what the church wants and satisfying his whim increases the cost!
Rant over.
Didn't know you also worked on this here in Holland
Where was it again? an imported 19th century romantic english organ re-tuned to mean-tone (mean as in 'evil/sadistic'?), somewhere up north here ....
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He will have much fun, I'm sure!
I can see the crescendos in the Fauré now!
Oh, the flapping of those brustwerke doors!
Flapping brustwerk doors on romantic repertoire is quite 'normal' here (yuk ...)
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Interesting that the Lieblich Gedeckt is on the Great and the Stopped Diapason on the Swell. Were they originally the other way round, I wonder?
Besides the casework and a tremulant drawknob (tremulant is not yet connected), the organ is 100% original.
The LG8 is quite big in tone, coupled to the SD8 it gives a nice BIG soloflute.
Though not so big as the OD8, which has Pierre's 'churchy roll' on it
Small, but the best English organ in Holland and nice acoustics we have too (sample)
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What would your nine stops be?
Barry Williams
Gr.
open diapason 8
lieblich gedeckt 8
principal 4
Sw.
stopped diapason 8
dulciana 8
voix celeste 8
gemshorn 4
oboe 8
Ped.
Bourdon 16
couplers +tremulant
In fact, this is 'our' Hill organ + dulciana & celeste. Sounds incredible in our church ...
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A manual Bourdon is an essential ingredient of the Grands Jeux.
[Maybe this is the bit that you've remembered!]
That's a bourdon 8', right? the bourdon16 is used in the basse the tierce or the fonds d'orgue.
btw. basse de tierce is on 16' (not the silly 8+4+1.3/5 things they try here ...)
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How interesting that you should say this. Last year I heard a performance of the 5th Sonata in which the registration was orchestral in the extreme, with a wealth of colour. I thought at the time that the interpretation was quite Wagnerian in concept. The performance was splendid - but it didn't sound remotely like Mendelssohn! (And it wasn't on a Hele, either!)
With Wagner's view on Mendelssohn in mind, somehow I don't think I would use "Wagnerian" registrations for MB's music....
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BTW. the OHS has it in the listings also, here
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I would like to buy/borrow a copy of Distler's 30 Pieces for Small Organ or Other Keyboard Instruments - Op. 18 No.1 - can anyone help please? It used to be published by Bärenreiter but seems to be out of print now - an Organists' Review article from 2004 gives the publisher as Masters Music (no M2061) but I can not find trace of this either. PM if needs be. Thanks.
AJJ
This one?
It's a reprint, didn't even cost much ...
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Since any organ is made up of 'actionwork', 'wind(ing)work and 'speaking/pipework', shouldn't we agree the organ is modular in it's very basic concept?
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Speaking of chamades, neo-baroque et.al, how to 'understand' this one: a 1969 Rieger with chamades of 1732.....
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My advice to the Dutch would be simple - find an organ that is redundant over here (they do exist!) and base your 'new' organ on a fair quantity of authentic 1920/30 ranks and merely make additions based strictly on the originals.
Imagine a wealthy organlover would buy the allypally leftovers
....Those people DO exist here
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The 5-manual looks nice, and a bit like a HopeJones console, doesn't it?
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For me it's simple: either the concert is on an instrument of interest that I haven't heard yet and because it's interesting to hear 'the instrument', the 'repertoire' may be of minor interest, or the instrument is known and I want to hear a master/talent displaying it.
I'm not going to listen to 'Ad nos' at an 1960-ish neo-baroque pile of nails (say III/30/p), but I do like to hear a Bach/Vivaldi concerto at the RAH when Reubke is on the main dish by a worldclass performer (or Volodos perform Rach.3; listened to the cd a thousand time probably, but you just got to hear that one live, n'est-ce pas?).
So maybe going to make acquaintance with a HopeJones may be more insteresting (even if the repertoire may be rubbish) than a middle-of-the-road-thirteen-in-a-dosen-o-so-predictable recital whith 'standard' repertoire on a standard organ (which here in Holland go by the hundreds, because there are too much organists here playing in fact one and a half program on any organ they can get there hands on).
For cd's the same goes for me; either encyclopedic discs (period instruments etc. for all styles), or transcendent performers.
This remembers me I once attended a concert with organ an alphorns in the Bach church in Arnstadt; no Bach on the program, totally something different, but nice
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Playing classical music kept junkies out of a railwaystation here (I believe it was at Heerlen)
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It is all a matter of taste. Long Live Difference(s).
Agreed, but the things one doesn't like are best left alone, and/or to people who do. If we're not able (anymore) to understand/appreciate a specific instrument, without looking at it in its proper context, than WE are being wrong. Many mistakes have been made in this fashion to 19th century organs here in Holland when viewed through neo-baroque spectacles, I can only hope the UK will learn from 'our' mistakes and not repeat them.
Personally I disagree on the 'repertoire' argument; one must find music that fit's the instrument, not the other way around. The presence of stopnames that enable an historically correct selections, don't ensure an 'authentic' musical performance; the authenticity of a permornance lies in other elements.
Surely organbuilding evolves, but just as we keep compositions in use (which to my knowledge wasn't custom in baroque times - 'nearly always looking forward'), we should treat the instruments the same, and add to the collection new, maybe different styled instruments.
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Of course, I can't speak for organs in the UK, but for Holland Ican only say this (and I'm 6 foot 5 too) - live with it, sorry.
No adjustable benches/pedals around here (sure is dirty language here), not to mention the 'fine' sit at old instruments.
Take the 'great' organ in our church - very uncomfortable at my length, but take the Hill in the choir (nearly same age): fits like a glove.
Worse still: new organs built here (if any) mostly follow 'old' principles, so unless you're hobbit-sized with small feet, you will leave with strain in muscles anyhow ...
You might wonder what would happen here if playing the organ was considered a 'serious' job here with regard to regulations on the circumstances under which to work (sorry, don't know the proper term in English). How long would I be allowed to play at a console which doesn't fit me (or to which I don't fit) and causes musclestrain at any serious piece ??
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Didn't there used to be one using front pipes at Alkmaar? Just a vague memory - there I think it was called Quint 23'.
AFAIK, That's Principaal 24', sounding a quint UNDER the 16 foot (resultant 64' - the first ever?)
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There are merits to both approaches, but there is no reason whatsoever why quality should not be associated with outside suppliers. If it isn't, then find others who can do it for you better; to your own design.
MM
I Agree, but it's an opinion not allowed being expressed here in Holland; craftsmanshift for it's own sake has almost become a religion (and pricing transcendant).
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Mentioning W.rc..t.r will send one to prison?
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One is aware, thinking of space used, of the amount of storage capacity available in, for example, zSeries mainframes where the 'box' is relatively empty.
The price of which is also nice
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Did anyone already here the Buxtehude organ recordings by Ton Koopman?
Not sure to buy them, the samples stun me; is TK having a joke on Buxtehude or what???
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Of course, there is no substitute for hearing Bach played masterfully on an organ such as Alkmaar or Groningen, and where the only possible response is stunned silence and an inability to speak.
Few organs are as great as the music of Bach, but the latter two definitely are.
MM
How about Grauhof, Waltershausen, Muehlberg (Thueringen), and Naumburg? They are imho. WAY closer to Bach than Alkmaar and Groningen; btw. how much of Groningen is original?
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I agree that only when the fingering and footing is totally secure can one begin to consider interpretation. A thorough knowledge of orthodox technique is the only way to real mastery of the organ. It has always been my practice to memorise the most difficult passsages and only to attempt memorisation after the fingering and footing has been properly established. Whilst some encourage people to commence the organ at an early stage, I cannot see how real progress can be made unless one has something approaching grade eight keyboard technique before starting. There are a very few exceptions, (one is a contributor to this Board,) the acquisition of secure keyboard skills must be the foundation of all good organ playing.
Most professional pianists keep two piano concerti memorised at any one time. Few organists could match this.
Barry Williams
I don't agree. In my view fingering/footing is also defined by "how you want to play what", the brain (which makes the music) must command the fingers from the music, not the other way around. Good technique encompasses the entire musicmaking, not just the "gymnastics" (may I suggest reading 'The art of piano playing' by Heinrich Neuhaus?).
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A nice combination on my organ 'upstairs' is for Messiaen's Les Bergers; I don't have an hautbois nor a clarinette on the swell (Maarschalkerweerd's voicing is ok, design is crap), but using the viola8'+piccolo2' does work, as does viola8'+fluteharm.4'+nasard3'.
Also I agree whith cynic about combining flutes (Cochereau effect?), on my Hill it works nice - play a Buxtehude choral with the cf on the coupled flutes sound very 'wealthy'. Oh, and the Hill hasn't been tuned for more than a year and is always in tune between 10 and 26 degrees Celsius - I love it ...
Cirencester Pc
in General discussion
Posted
Hmmm, I could live with such a setup