DouglasCorr
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Posts posted by DouglasCorr
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I would dispute this.
What if one takes not the slightest notice of what is musically in vogue, and instead, one relies entirely on musial instinct at the consoles of original instruments?
MM
"I would dispute this." I thought you might...
Clearly performers of integrity such as Rogg, Richter and Hurford produce recordings that , to the best of their musical understanding and resources, recreate the intensions of the composer.
Unlike memories, recordings capture these performances exactly.
However neither we nor the artist can experience them years on as we would have originally.
This is why performance speeds are reconsidered ( over and beyond the consequences of different acoustics etc.)
You cannot wipe your mind like a computer disk to erase performances and experiences that have occurred in the passage of time.
I am afraid we are all people of our own time.
Your first paragraph is a starting condition that cannot be created.
Also consider what you mean by instinct... how do you get this??
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Hurford himself now suggests that he played many Bach works too fast.
MM
We will never know why great players change their minds about the “correct” way to play Bach. Karl Richter’s earlier and later Bach Cantata and Passion recordings show significant differences in tempi. At a public lecture, Lionel Rogg said that he had not done any historical research for his series of Bach recordings – he said he played from the heart! This is really what everyone does.
I am afraid we are all people of our own time.
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Durham Cathedral has 4 fabulous examples of Willis/Harrison Tuba ranks: the ones on the Bombarde are particularly heroic and ringing and I'm sure are what you describe.
Talking of heroic sounds... The idea of a Heroic organ - ein Helden Orgel - in a castle wall surrounded by mountains and pine forests - appeals to the Romantics in all of us - but does it work in practice? Has anyone heard the Helden Orgel at Kufstein? Is it worth a trip - as they say?
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....Victorian industrial architecture, polychrome brickwork, beam engines…..WOW!
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However, I think what impressed me about Oistrach was the lyrical beauty on the one hand, and the ...
MM
...I prefer Kreisler...
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Final pedal entry is like WWIII
Even without lots of stops the last page is something to die for....
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I'm sure that message board readers will be delighted to know that last night's concert on the P D Collins organ at Southampton University by Stephen Cleobury was a great success - the organ having been silent for such a long time.
Prior to the concert there was a talk about the organ by Peter Collins, Professor Peter Evans and Peter Hurford.
There is a will for it to be heard more in the future...
Stephen Cleobury described the organ as magnificent. As has been attested to by other message boarders.
Don't forget the acoustics in the concert hall are so poor (for the organ) as to make the RFH seem like the RAH, these cicumstances have to be borne in mind by those that criticise the organ.
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There is also the version By Falcinelli (Schott).
I never checked this against the original score, so I don't know if the voices have been changed in order, but no 4' registration is necessary.
I think the registration should be kept fairly simple - avoiding Stokowski effects...
(PS I have no idea how I ever managed to play this ...tempus fugit...
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However, this could be said to apply to other rules of English grammar* - which is not necessarily correct, either.
* For example, split infinitives - or hyphens.
The erudition on this site deserves a trophe!
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At this years St Alban's Organ competition - one of the finalists decided to go for it in the opening allegro of Widor's VI - the panellists covered their ears - as did Peter Hurford, who was sitting in the audience! I have to say it was a pretty ugly sound.
I thought the recent Latry recital at the RAH had some enormous sounds coming from the organ that were still quite musical.
PS I heard Bath Abbey on radio 4 morning worship last Sunday and have to say the mixtures nearly burnt my ears out. I hope the choir use ear defenders.
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But does it also have an apostrophe....?
Well!
Apart from the History and Antiquities of St David's, throughout the book the town is described as St David's - you can quickly verify this yourself if you look in the copy in your book case. -
I recently conducted "Spirit" in St. Davids (I've still not got a satisfactory explanation for why there is no apostrophe) ...
http://www.adriantaylor.co.uk/lauda/st_dav...sday/spirit.mp3[/url] - I think he makes a *very* good job of it...
The standard text on the cathedral by Jones and Freeman has an apostrophy "The History and Antiquities of St David’s by W B Jones & E A Freeman ( 1856)" so it must be a result of a 20th centuary slide in standards; perpetuated in many places including the cathedral web site.....
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I think it rather depends on whether Col.Bogey was fighting with the Royal Fuseliers or the KOYLI's.
Perhaps John Scott was thinking of the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.
MM
Army Rifles Drill states
The need to move quickly in recce or rearguard actions, or to form a screen, required fast marching and occasional double marching. As compared to the regular infantry pace of 120 per minute, the Light Infantry or Rifle pace is 140 per minute. On ceremonial parades march pasts are done in both quick and double time, the latter 180 paces to the minute.
I'm sure that clears things up for you
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What I am asking is not what separates a good performance from a bad one, but rather, what separates a good performance from an utterly outstanding one?
How many performers can make the distinction between French Baroque elegance and French baroque mannerisms?
Ultimately, what is at the heart of a great performer? Self doubt? Perfectionsim? A need to communicate? Showmanship?
Scholarship? The need to be noticed, loved or admired? Virtuosity of technique? Interpretation?
There are so many things which can destroy a musician's best efforts, and some things crop up which cannot be forseen, but what is it....really....which is at the core of a great performer and a great performance?
MM
Why didn't you include instrument and composer in your list of ingredients?
No instrument or music - no performance...
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As far as I am aware, Mr Clutton had no training as an organ builder whatsoever.
Isn't he the Clutton of Clutton's estate egents?
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I have just tried the Listen Again - its so distorted and bottom heavy - it makes the whole Listen Again idea a bad joke
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Didn't Flor Peeters do a set of recordings with the same title "Ars Organi" to accompany the books, or am I going senile prematurely?
I recall listening to some utterly magical recordings, I think largely on Netherlands organs, and at a guess, I would say that they were around about 25-30 years ago.
MM
I think there was a wonderfully illustrated book on "The Organ in the Netherlands" (or some similar title) and it had records to go with it (78s?). I located a copy a few years ago from a specialist second hand book shop (in the Lake District?) - but regrettably decided not to aquire even more clutter - after stern warnings from my wife. :angry:
I think the Ars Organi Tutor series was leagues ahead of anything else when it was published. Anyone who gets to the end will be a jolly good player. I play the pedal exercises in books 2 and 3 to delay terminal technical decline. There is extensive use of the heel - which I recall even went on to black notes
in one exercise. You would develop enoromously flexible ankle joints to get around some of the exercises. Maybe there is more use of the heel than is currently advocated for Bach Buxtehude etc.I too remember a master class where Peeters said it was essential to practice really slowly.
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Thanks very much for all the comments chaps.
Keyboards with a light touch are not good news for finger control. Some toaster keyboards become awful with wear. I don't think you can expect to develop proper control without touch resistance. If you think this might be the reason, then I'd make sure I took the corrective action on a decent piano where the fingers have to exert some strength.My new (9 mths) Yamaha U3 piano keys must be around 70 gm resistance. My previous piano had very light keys (35 gm) and may have initiated things.
As the problem is noticeable when I play chords involving black and white notes the crux of the problem must be that somehow I am not adjusting for the different height of the keys enough; maybe there is an age factor too - as I always have tired hands these days
- no flowers please! -
organ playing is stuffy, creepy or remote.
sorry.. these are some of the features that attact me to organ playing....
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I have just found yet another problem with my playing….
I involuntarily arpeggionate.
This is noticeable if I play on black and white keys e.g. in thirds - the two notes do not sound exactly together!
I don’t know if this is new, or if I have always done it but didn’t notice. – Self examination is clearly very important!
Test yourself high up on the piano.
Is this common? Am I the only one?
Comments/ suggestions?
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Surely it is a superb instrument - which Daniel Roth is trying to have declared a Monument Historique - or similar. I cannot recall at this moment the precise terminology.
In any case, does that necessarily make it undeserving of either preservation or accolade?
You mean World Heritage Site.
Support this vital endeavour by signing here
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Don't knock Peter Collins too hard, he was a voice in the English wilderness at one time and did things that no-one else at the time was really thinking of!
After several years silence at the Turner Sims - there is to be an organ recital - to celebrate the 30th anniversary!
Sunday 7th October 7:30 Stephen Cleobury; Sei gegrusset variations, B-A-C-H and more - a great night out to hear this landmark organ again!
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Somebody's going to propose doing a Virgil Fox "Heavy Organ" soon!
...... and don't forget the Pablo Lights! -essential if your concentration should wonder........
Favourite British Player Of Bach
in The Organ
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That's why we have ended up where we started!
For more insight go here