Tony Newnham
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Posts posted by Tony Newnham
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Thanks Tony, I forgot to mention the 4ft Principal and all the upper work are either roll tuned (longer pipes) or cone tuned (shorter ones). I have only just finished building the entire organ but my experience thus far has been that I seem to have significantly more drastic temperature and humidity changes in the house than you would in an unheated church. I am trying to control summer humidity with a dehumidifer, getting a swing of about 42% mid winter to 55% mid summer. Perhaps temperature is more important than humidity, I do not know.
Chris
Hi Chris
As far as I understand it, temperature has more effect on pipe pitch than humidity - but in general, flue pipes will move with temperature as a body, and still remain "in tune" with each other althoguh they will shift sharp as the temperature rises. This normally is only an issue if you wnat to use the organ with other instruments. I'm told that some of the cinema organs that were installed in temperature controlled chambers would stand reasonably in tune for years.
Every Blessing
Tony
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When is it best to tune a house organ?.
I have an 11 stop 13 rank house organ (it includes a 3 rank mixture). Is now (or the spring) the best time to tune, hoping for acceptable beats mid summer and mid winter. The room has of course heating for the winter, but as this is reserved for the organ it may be kept somewhat cooler than the remainder of the house though the door to the room is far better left open during playing at least. A far better sound is produced. The house is somewhat regulated humidity wise all year but has no air conditioning for the very warm summer weather. The organ is classical with very little nicking on 50mm wind, rather Silbermann in tone and with only flue pipes. The upper work is spotted metal or 70% tin. It has conventional slider chests. It has 16ft Subbas, 2 8ft wood Gedacts, 1 8ft Gemshorn (spotted) 1 4ft Principal, 1 4ft Rohrflote, 2 2ft Principals (different voicing and divisions) a quint plus the 3 rank mixture which includes a Tierce.
Any advice most welcome.
Thankyou
Hi Chris
I'm suprised that all flue pipes need much tuning other than the odd note here and there. I've nornally had organs tuned twice a year (spring and autumn - just before Christmas) but that's been in churches. One organ I used to play had cone-tuned metal flue pipes, and they hardly ever needed touching. I await the professional's views with interest.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Hi
Looks an interesting instrument - I like divided stops on small organs - adds a lot of flexibility. Puty the 4ft isn't divided as well.
As regards an earlier post, I can't comment on "Yates & Allen" and a quick look for Allen in DBOB didn't show anyone who looked likely.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Joseph Merklin was indeed a great builder, and a grand
traveller as well.Anyway, your organ deserves a close study before deciding anything. I cannot
tell at distance but chances are many it deserves conservation.
Best wishes,
Pierre Lauwers.
Hi
Which church is it in? NPOR has an altered Merklin organ in St. Bede, Clapham Park (Roman Catholic Church) index no. N17268.
According to NPOR the organ is c.1900 and was altered by Yates in 1927, so is unlikely to afforded "Historic Organ" status by BIOS (the details are on the web site www.bios.org.uk) - it depends how much Yates changed and if there's historic significance in the rebuild state.
NPOR list a Merklin Schultz & Co. organ in Aberdeenshire - now removed to an unknown location (D03629). So Merklin is a rare builder in the UK.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Hi
It has come to my attention that the organ in the former St. George's, Halifax is redundant. The church has been sold for redevelopment. The organ needs to be removed fairly quickly. Contact is Andrew Mear 07966 421531.
If' I've identified the correct building, it's NPOR index no.D00122 which shows a 3 manual Abbott & Smith. Maintainer is Michael Fletcher who will be able to advise on the organ's condition.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Do you believe it's different in Europe?
As I said somewhere else here, the taste today is very different
in UK compared to elsewhere.
So nothing moves, and we now peek towards U.S. with envy while ou own
european builders must sit down on their own knowledge and rich traditions.
If I were an english organ-builder, I would possibly be slightly discontent.
Best wishes,
Pierre
Hi
I suspect that there's rather more money in churches in the USA - there are very few UK churches that have the financial resources for new large organs - and those that have probably already have a pretty decent organ. Then there's issues with organ advisor's, English Heritage and the conservation lobby to contend with.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Som might even prefer the pedalboard on this page (scroll down entirely) - should get you working
Hi
Looks like fun! Is there split accidentals or what?
Every Blessing
Tony
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After a conversation of pedalboard preferences at the weekend, I would be interested to know what design of pedalboard people prefer.
Hi
Definitely straight concave (RCO standard prior to to Wesley/Willis design was adopted). I've played all sorts regularly, and have always found straight concave the most comfortable.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Interesting - didn't know they still existed - everything I have seen has been Cambridge, c. 1965-1980
Hi
Johnsons did indeed used to be based in Cambridge, but moved out a few years ago. I think I've heard that the proprietor is now semi-retired.
I have played a couple of organs worked on by them - St. Clement, Cambridge (NPOR D02721) is pretty "off the wall". A much-rebuilt Chancel organ in the church where Bill Johnson (son of the firm's founder - if my info is correct) is (was?) organist. A single manual with such delights(?) as a Groos Tierce whitch, along with several other stops, is not what is shown on the stop knobs. With careful registration, the sound is quite pleasant.
More conventional is their rebuild of the c.1875 Miller just up the road in St. Giles (NPOR A00673).
The firm was still in business in a small way when I left Cambridge 3 years ago - but most "ordinary" work in the city was by then in the hands of Charles Hall.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Try:
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N18148
Fyvie Castle, N18148 in case the above link doesn't work. Proclaims itself to be a "symphony organ"
Also, up the road from me at Somerley Park there's a 2m (N11438) which, although 2 years later, only has A compass (one above is C) and has a similar tonal pyramid, although more conventional nomenclature.
Hi
Thanks for the reference. The NPOR link should work for the time being - I'm not sure when the actual server is being moved - if it doesn't then access via www.bios.org.uk/npor should provide a link to the new URL once it's operational.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Take a look at this new organ by Robin Jennings:
http://www.jennings-organs.co.uk/pages/streatley.htm
It is in a typical village church, north chancel with rather nice slim case, designed to sound out into the church as well as play for a chancel choir. It is interesting that it has two unenclosed manuals mainly due the fact that the swell shutters would have taken up the space of a rank of pipes and seemingly it was thought better to have more stops. I think I could live with this (as opposed to having a 1 manual with about the same number of stops) and would probably (in the context of this organ) not miss the swell as long as the voicing allowed for quiet enough sounds etc. It is also interesting to see the horizontal tonal design ie. variety of 8fts etc. as well as the solo and chorus structures. All in all a superbly constructed/voiced instrument with some interesting ideas for the design of an instrument in a similar small church situation. What do people think?
AJJ
Hi
I find a swell department a little bit of a luxury - yes it's nice to be able to adjust the relative volume of stops, or to bring in the swell reeds in a crescendo over the Great, but organs were around long before swell boxes were invented, and in a small, well-voiced organ, it's not totally necessary. (The chamber organ in my current church is all unenclosed, and it's not too much of a problem).
AJJ's post also races another, all too common, issue (althoguh I've always found lever swell pedals quite useable - but you can't normally leave the box 1/2 open.
Many of the recent crop of house/practice organs are also all unenclosed. It will be interesting to see how the organ works over the next few years.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Hi
What period were the Nordic organs built in? It seems that a number of builders had basically standard small instruments (Bishop's Blatchington & Cecillia ranges; Compton's Miniatura; Walker "positives" etc) - and the concept is still around with the Collins EOS series.
The "Symphony Organ" had pneumatic action throughout and also had the ability to function like a pianola - i.e. using an integral mechanism it could play music from media with punched holes. The mechanism has long since disappeared. It also had what I would describe as a split stop arrangement with the split occuring around Middle C. This allowed the organist to have different stops "drawn" for the left and right hand on the same manual.
If I remember correctly from the console tablet, "Symphony Organs" could be purchased from a store in Regent Street, London, just after the 1914-18 war for something like £250.
The particular example I know of was purchased by a man named Frood, the founder of the Ferodo brake and clutch lining company, for his residence in Buxton.
Thanks
Every Blessing
Tony
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I haven't come across N&B 'Symphony' organs but I do know of the 'Nordic' organs, small two manuals, usually about 3/4/1. I believe that there was one in the hotel at Euston Station at one time. The tuner I worked with as an apprentice looked after one on the outskirts of Swansea, and I now tune one in Kent, though it is not in original condition.
Maybe a keyword search on the NPOR using NORDIC might produce some result. Wasn't N&B's telegraphic address NORDIC ?
Good luck
Headcase
Hi
There's no point in trying the keyword search, because the function, as far as I know, only works on the address fields - and anyway, unless the original surveyor knew and recorded the modal name, it won't be on the survey. One of the "editor only" tools does allow searching for text in other fields, but I suspect it could be a long process, and until the server move is completed, I don't have access to it anyway.
What period were the Nordic organs built in? It seems that a number of builders had basically standard small instruments (Bishop's Blatchington & Cecillia ranges; Compton's Miniatura; Walker "positives" etc) - and the concept is still around with the Collins EOS series.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Around the turn of the 20th century Norman & Beard produced a two-manual organ known as a "Symphony Organ." They were an off-the-shelf instrument, probably designed for private residences rather than for liturgical use. I wonder if there are any surviving examples other than one I know of?
Hi
Another one I've not heard of - but it sounds interesting, althoguh N7B were very influenced by Hope-Jones in this era. Where is the one that you know? Is it on NPOR?
I would suggest a search on NPOR, but considering just how many organs by N&B (or worked on by them) that there were, it would be a VERY long job. Since the old NPOR server is now not available, I currently can't access the editor-only tools that would enable a full text search, althoguh I doubt if it would have shown anything much.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Hi
Thanks for the replies so far.
Every Blessing
Tony
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If someone is really serious about this, as a true obsessive I'm open to suggestions of possible dates and places. You could always come over here - (sunny Hull, that is) plenty of fun organs could be 'on show'.
Against a get-together on purely practical grounds: Geographically, the strongest/most persuasive voices on this forum (recently) seem pretty well scattered. Roffensis is clearly in Merseyside, my spies tell me that pcnd is in Dorset. Barry Oakley - Staffordshire, Peter Allinson - Yorkshire, Brian Childs in Armagh, Pierre L in Belgium etc. etc.
Hi
That makes at least 3 of us in Yorkshire (I'm in Bradford). Just possibly Hull would be suitable (but not until after Christmas).
Every Blessing
Tony
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Hi
I came across a reference and stop list of a Cavaille-Coll cinema organ in the Whitworth book. Did the firm actually build any? How many? And do any survive? (Whitworth doesn't give a location).
Just wondering.
Every Blessing
Tony
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Or, perhaps go even further oop north - think of the wonderful wool warehouses in the Little Germany area of Bradford, for instance - equally good road, rail and air links as Birmingham.
Hi
Yes, there are plenty of redundant mill buildings, and not a few redundant or near redundant churches in Bradford - sounds like a good idea to me - we might even get the St. George's Hall organ restored then!
Every Blessing
Tony
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I am inclined to agree with Rev. Newnham - surely the committee must have been informed by their financial advisors as to whether or not there were sufficient funds avaiilable to effect the move?
I had also understood that a contract had been (or was about to be) signed with Goll Organs for a new organ in the (new) extension. I assume that this in fact not the case. Is it possible that there has been an element of mis-management?
They also seem to be very keen on collecting my subscription but rather less keen on being concerned that I actually get something for my money - which currently I do not! Not particularly through my own fault, either!
Personally, I cannot help wondering whether in fact a move to Birmingham from London would be a retrograde step. Whilst there might be some difference in rent or purchase prices, there are surely many more things in London which would attract organists to visit. For one, the RFH organ (if it actually gets re-instated after the refurbishment of the hall). Then there are the rather greater number of organs of all sizes, more concert-halls, more theatres and other places of entertainment. This is to say nothing of four cathedrals (if Westminster Abbey is included) each with a superb choir. There is also the presence of four of the national music conservatoires, the British Library, numerous art galleries and thousands of restaurants, cafes and bars.
Whilst Birmingham probably has a number of each of the above, I think that it is fair to say that London by its very size and nature will have a far greater choice of any and all of them.
Hi
I suspect that Birmingham is significantly cheaper in terms of property than central London, and doesn't do too badly for other resources - there are 2 cathedrals in the city, plus Litchfield & Worcester both in easy reach, not to mention the Town Hall & Symphony Hall (or whatever it's called) which both have pipe organs. The public library had a pretty good collection of organ-related material in the 1970's, when I lived in the city for a while, and that was before the British Organ Archive moved there! As a country, we do tend to be rather too "Lonond-centric". And bear in mind, London is only 90 mins. by rail from Birmingham.
Every Blessing
Tony
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I virtually 100% sure, but always ready to be corrected., of course.
My firm understanding is that publishers have copyright on the printed page for 25 years. Therefore, I'm quite sure that the Schumann versions out there are safe to recommend for this purpose.
The critical change in copyright came about 6 years ago and the period during which composer's works were covered was extended from 50 to 70 years after their deaths - this meant in practice that Elgar's music which had recently come out of copyright went back in again!
I repeat, have fun!
Hi
An enquiry to Allegro music (www.allegromusic.co.uk) might help with a score. I'm pretty sure I saw them in a music shop fairly recently, but I can't remember where, or who the publisher was.
As regards copyright, the composition remains in copyright for 70 years from the date of the composer's death, after which it becomes "public domain" and no royalties are payable for recording or public performance (but N.B. if it's an arrangement, the copyright will be 70 years from the date of the arranger's death, as far as I know). The situation with "editors" copyright is far from clear. As someone said, the publisher does have a copyright in the physical layout of the printed page, which lasts, as far as I know, for 25 years frfom the date of publication.
Hope this helps.
Every Blessing
Tony
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All members should have received a letter about this during this week. Seems like after a detailed review they can't afford to do the revedevelopment/move. A brave decision to throw the brakes on but it does leave them with a lot of big decisions to be made now I guess...
Hi
The ramifications will spread beyond the RCO as well, as the British Organ Archive (and the new NPOR office) were due to be in the Curzon Street building as well.
Maybe it's as well to pull the plug now, if there's going to be a financial shortfall, but surely the sums should have been done properly (with an adequate contingency) in the first place.
Every Blessing
Tony
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DISCLAIMER: I am not an organist - yet.
Does anyone know of a Web source where I could find an MP3 or WAV of Lefebre-Wely's "En Sortie..."? (It was in a search for this piece of music that I found this message board). I have a couple who think they know the composer and have heard of the piece, so that they think it might be "nice" for their wedding. I used to have an old vinyl LP of Sortie but it's gone elsewhere and not been returned, so I can't play it for them (and my organist will not stoop so low) ; and I need to convince them that what might have been appropriate to San Sulpice does not work on a small Fr Willis in an English country church.
And, if truth be told, I just want to see their faces when they hear what it *really* sounds like.
Hi
Good to have another member of the clergy on the forum! (I'm a Baptist minister in Bradford).
I've not got time to check at present (Morning Prayers with the other local clergy (Anglican & Roman Catholic) looms), but the L-W could be available on the Organs & Organists online web site (you'll probably need to register, but the site is worth a visit anyway).
Every Blessing
Tony
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Holy Trinity, Walton Breck, Liverpool. Still B.L. and restored. (Willis, 1863, 3 man, 27 stops, 9 reeds)
Christchurch Claughton, Birkenhead. (Willis 1865 enlarged Willis, still with floating lever action)
Hi
Is the Willis "floating lever" the same as Barker Lever. I thought I'd read somewhere that the Willis design is a sophisticated "servo-like" pneumatic action.
Every Blessing
Tony
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There are problems - but there are problems everywhere!
Quite true, and Australia and New Zealand have similiar issues with once flourishing parish churches of inner city suburbs giving way to their former congregations.
Today for example my Choir from affluent Remuera joined with that of the Central Methodist Church in Auckland known as Pitt Street Methodist. Methodism in NZ embraces a polynesian flavour and caters for the diversity of Tongan, Fijian, Samoan, Rarotongan and Niue Islanders.
Within this we did an introit by Purcell and his verse anthem "Declare his honour' with organ music by JSB and Whitlock, various hymns from traditional methodist to 'Pacifica' hymns. All blended beautifully with good liturgy and a power point presentation on christian work in the Islands.
The organ by the way is a 3 manual George Croft (NZ builder) dating from 1911 with additions in 1936, 1947 and 1965. It has a division of 'floating mutations' at 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5. Several neo-reform NZ instruments have these.
My point is that there can be hope for an organ and choral input in a redefined ministry. And it can save our valuable pipe organs too.
Hi
Good to see that "Blended Worship" is spreading - I'm convinced that it's the way ahead in many areas.
As regards pipe organs, all too often they are seen as irrelevant, and discarded even if the church is not htreatened with closure - there's one in another local Baptist Church that hasn't been played since the previous organist died last year, which is a real shame, as it's quite a nice 3 manual - originally an early Binns 2m rebuilt & extended by a local firm, but very much in the Binns style. It's a resource going to waste - the organ can be used with music groups (contrary to what many seem to think!) as well as in more traditikonal roles.
Every Blessing
Tony
Adding Digital Stops To Existing Instrument..
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Hi
Since this topic has resurfaced, perhaps I can share some further thoughts. There are 2 organs in the Bradford area that have digital additions. Addingham Parish Church has a substantial digital contribution - pretty well all the upperwork and reeds, plus a harpsichord. I was able to spend a morning playing it recently. I found I was able from the console to identify the digital ranks fairly easily in isolation, but once the fine tuning was adjusted they sounded acceptable in context - not as good as pipes, but then that's not really the point. I don't know the type of services and other uses that the organ has, so I shall refrain from comment on the ethical and aesthetic aspects of the additions - at least they have retained a nucleus of pipes, and produced an instrument which is more versatile than prfeviously - and it sounds reasonable (the acoustics of the building don't help!).
The other instrument is Bradford Cathedral, where a pipe Nave department was replaced by Bradford system electronics in 1990. I was there practicing this afternoon (I'm playing for a funeral on Friday) and was warned by the deputy organist not to use the Nave organ as it's unreliable - there are several missing notes. When I've heard it previously, the Nave organ sounded dated - typical digital sound of the period. Again, I can't comment on why the digital section was installed, but the life-span is an issue that needs to be considered.
Every Blessing
Tony